An idea that I've been kicking around for a few weeks and can't really see the downside to.

Unique from my other suggestions in that it doesn't follow immediately after I would have been personally affected by it!

The idea is for there to exist in game "Hero Tokens" - basically little Undroppable misc small items of Single Use, which cannot be found in game - can only be awarded to players by DMs.

All characters might be allowed to start with 1 or 2, and the idea is that Players can use a Hero Token to gain a significant boost to all Skills, for a very short duration - Probably about 1 Turn.

The idea is so that people can, in extraordinary circumstances, surpass themselves, and accomplish things greater than themselves, because of the necessity of the accomplishment.

They would generally be used when a DM requests a Die Roll for a crucial moment. The Hero tokene gives a +10, or +20 to all Skill ranks - Tumble, Bluff, Persuade, Intimidate, etc - in order for characters to be able to really be HEROIC, and come through when it counts.

The obvious downside to using a Hero token, is that once you use it, it's gone, and you don't have it anymore. Point being, nobody would sensibly ever go around and get a +20 to all stats for the sake of persuading Rufus to give up Josephine's key, but during a Complex Illithid Implant Removal, or something like that - the Surgeon can truly "Give it his all" and keep the patient alive. It introduces the idea of Characters really pushing themselves, rather than relying purely on Luck to Save another's life.

It's similar to the idea of Taking 20 on rolls, except it cannot be done any time somebody feels like it. Hero Tokens should be precious, and therefore only given out by DMs to deserving Characters.

Further things that could be added on to the initial suggestion:

-Increasing Attack Bonus, as well, for when the hero simply HAS to strike true. -Changing the Bonus to Skills from All - to being such that Skills that require training aren't boosted unless the character has ranks in that skill already (ie, to prevent Fighters from getting +20 to Open Lock) -The exact bonus received to skills doesn't need to be 10 or 20.. It could be something like the (skill * 2) +5 to keep it from being too ridiculous, and to ensure people don't do things that simply shouldn't be possible for them.

My purpose in suggesting all this isn't so much to provide a concrete way for this thing to be implemented, so much as to give DMs ideas, and hopefully persuade them to implement it.

I support this!

I like this. Sometimes, that great, fantasy-esque miracle performed in life or death circumstances are amazing, as long as the tokens are given only to appropriate people!

I see flaws, and I support this.

I disagree.

There is an entire class based off of performing great feats of heroism for limited durations -- which is the barbarian. Rage allows them to perform these feats and smite enemies, before being winded (if not mechanically) from their effort. This seems to contradict that entire class, and give everyone the barbarians ability for limited greatness.

This sounds kind of like Eberron action points taken to the extreme. While it's a pretty nifty idea, it might be better for there to still be chance involved. Not sure how easy that would be to implement, but if it added just a little bit, and was variable, it seems like it would fit better. The way it's handled in Eberron in PnP is pretty fair, I think.

Maybe it should be a random boost? 1d20?

I do not like the idea.

90% of the tokens will be used for PVP.

I like this idea, to be completely honest. I support it.

I think this is called rolling a 20 on a d20.

Where on god's green earth do people get the idea that one of these things would be even remotely useful in PvP?

Skill points are not even USED in PvP! Tumble, UMD, Discipline, and Taunt are about all that have any impact. How is having a +10 in any of those going to swing the balance by any significant amount at all?

Remember, these would last one round at the least. One TURN, at the very very most.

And the point, Joe Desu, is that as things are, you don't get to choose when you roll a 20.

+10 tumble then running around combat, +10 vs. DC on wands, Epic taunts.

I like the idea, Kot. But I think it should be more left up to the DM when to use these.

I'd rather have a DM say "You're pwning at surgery. Its hero time. Roll and add +10 to the result", than giving a one-use inane token. But even then, I dunno if it should be like that.

Not everyone rocks under pressure. The reason Heroes are seen as Heroes is because most people fail.

Here is a revision to my post then.

I am aganst it.

If you don't think your character is heroic enough play on single player OC and be invicible.

Tokens of any sort can go to hell. It opens up a crappy can of worms, and always comes down to Haves and Have-nots.

Sounds good.

Also sounds like force points from the Star Wars Role Playing games.

What if they were say, only beneficial for certain things. If it will be DM given than maybe you can have ones that give a boost to only heal or disarm trap. Another idea is to only have it useable for skills that you can take 20 on in normal pnp like disarm trap and pick lock thus ruling out attack bonus and taunt/pursuade.

I am against this. I don't believe there is any benefit that can be gained from a token system. Play your character, if you get the chance to be a hero- thats your jump. Who you are will determine how you hit the ground, With a bit of luck.

There's plenty of buffs available in game that already cover this, although not as uberly. A DM that spots you being cool or whatever will more than likely drop some supplies after spicing your butt.

Besides, like BookofJob posted, 90% of these would be used in PvP anyhow, even if they only pertain to skills. Concentration, Discipline, Spellcraft, and Tumble all have defensive aspects that are extremely useful in PvP. Even if some of these skills are 0s in your build, sticking a 10 in there is a significant change.

And yeah, I imagine a few folks would get weird about DM favoritism if they got killed by someone using a hero buff, but if you're using that logic, it's not really any different from people using supplies from DM spice or a unique item awarded to them from the DMs in PvP, just less obvious. In the end, it's probably best we just keep things as they are.

I shall let you onto a secret, my disciples.

When doing something that requires a skill roll, amazing RP and/or incredibly original ideas will boost you. For example, when trying to bluff Joe Bob the god of Loot into handing over his bag of holding full of gold you would get a huge fracking bonus if you actually DO bluff the NPC himself. (try and get a stupid DM, like RD or something)

My point is, don't just say "Can I roll spellcraft to figure out what the ritual the drow mages are working on does?" - Rather, go: "*I use Jerblems Fifth Theorem to decipher their hand gestures and relate it to what I know about the different types of magic, in the hope of discovering what type of magic they are weaving.*"

This might give you information on whether they're doing something with illusion or necromancy or something else. It's more fun for all involved! :D

Just don't go overboard >_>

9lives Tokens of any sort can go to hell. It opens up a crappy can of worms, and always comes down to Haves and Have-nots.

Word.

The size of the bonus, or its utility in PvP, or whatever doesn't really matter. There are already ways for DMs to give little bonuses (loot, XP, etc.), and I don't see much, well, any benefits by having this.

"Heroic"-ness of characters is relative. If we didn't have the failures amidst the successes, the victory from a good roll wouldn't matter nearly so much and failures would be even more frustrating.

A (B): Hey did you get a token too? C (D): No. Did you? A (B): Yeah! C (D): f u

Hero tokens or similar come from games such as Star Wars where PCs are supposed to be heroes.

EfU setting is the opposite of that, IMO. The atmosphere should be one of a small community of ex-worthless slaves or losers that managed to get lost in the underdark, striving to survive.

In AD&D in general, class level determines if you have heroic capabilities or not. (lvl 10 rogue feats, barbarian rage, epic lvls, etc.)

In Living Greyhawk they give something similar. Granted this is a tabletop environment but the DM holds a concealed vote at the end of each session where the players all vote for the other player (not themselves) that they believed did the best role-playing. The DM then looks at the votes and awards the player with the most votes a (die roll) bonus +1 token that he can use in any other games he sits in on.

Not that I like the idea either way, just pointing out that it is done in D&D.

Screw tokens, unless they are only done on a legendary basis. Like Goozag pwning Welfyr in a duel and other crazy stuff. I do not need more stuff I will not have as a typical player, never mind my token fighter dwarf that manages to be a very lucky lucky dwarf.

Jasede A (B): Hey did you get a token too? C (D): No. Did you? A (B): Yeah! C (D): f u

A: Did you also get dm xp? B: No, did you? A: Yeah! B: f u

C: Did you also get unique loot? D: No, did you? C: Yeah! D: f u

This topic disintegrating even while in theory. Please, don't start throwing other unrelated things into the mix. Any rewards will always have a degree of have vs. have not, obviously, anything will that someone is given. However, the point here is that PCs are not are automatically heroes in a persistent world. This is not PnP, where your closed environment is built around a few players. Here, people make up the average, the heroic, and the conquerers. In this environment, tokens to the effect of this suggestion are only tools to be misused.

The Dms have made themselves clear, and they have shown that every once in a while you might have these opportunities. Be in the right place at the right time, with the right skills. That is what makes a hero, having all of these, then acting on the opportunities as they present themselves.

I believe this topic was started in good faith, but its not something that will improve the server. The resulting arguments has made clear the obvious resistance. I'd suggest dropping this suggestion before people start dragging all kinds of things into it.

I vote Lock.

Ebok has gotten very oro-esque lately. O.o

Ive played on a few servers where they have things somewhat like this, and they are both used well and horribly, youd both get things like a mother gaining huge power to protect her child (good use), and Min/maxed half-orc 'heroically' pwning noobs.

Id love to jump on the "this idea sucks, lets mob it!" band-wagon, but I really have to say I'm neutral on it. It'd be like PvP. Both amazing for plots and spammy for power-builders.

I vote both ways.

Anonymous Ebok has gotten very oro-esque lately. O.o

Ive played on a few servers where they have things somewhat like this, and they are both used well and horribly, youd both get things like a mother gaining huge power to protect her child (good use), and Min/maxed half-orc 'heroically' pwning noobs.

Id love to jump on the "this idea sucks, lets mob it!" band-wagon, but I really have to say I'm neutral on it. It'd be like PvP. Both amazing for plots and spammy for power-builders.

I vote both ways.

=me, forgot to login. xD

Plots are mostly handed with DMs, Skill rolls are entirely handled with DMs. You can be a hero without these and the DMs already take into account heroics.

And I don't compare to Oro. Not nearly as thorough.

I don't understand. How do mysterious little magic things called hero tokens that somehow improve your abilities given by some guy called dm stick with the fact EFU is supposed to be a realistic RP server?

when i think of realistic i think of underground societies with magic robots made by gnomes

You forgot that the Gnomes are grey and magic, too.

And some of them worship a giant evil mole.

Where is Bear when you need him?

OskarMaxon, why add -more- incentives to jealousy?

Veered way off topic, sorry folks.

To sum up, read DruQks' post and I don't believe we'll be implementing this one, sorry Kotenku!