I was just on line prior to this post (check post time) and everybody in lower was dead! The people (PC's) that killed them were running around in upper and lower like nothing happened buying things from merchants and identifying loot. There was not a single (PC) Watch patrol person, Spellguard (PC) or anybody that seemed to care as my character ran around saying, “Everybody in lower is dead!” For the most part I was ignored save for a few minor comments of ‘no concern about lower’.

This is so wrong in so many ways and I am completely disillusioned. These players took complete advantage of game mechanics to kill the peasants of lower and pay no consequences, knowing that nobody was around. And while my lone character said stuff to them all I had backing me up were NPC guards, which kept these ROLL-players from killing me and racking up XP from my death also. In reality at least one of those peasants would have made it to an NPC guard and the Watch would have done something to keep the people of lower from being slaughtered! Or even after the fact, my PC would have told any number of NPC watch guards and something would have been done.

I tried to file a report with a watch NPC and there was no response so I left the game.

There was like, a three hour server event in which these NPC's died. The people who killed them did so with DM Supervision, RPing it all out. They had to deal with extreme retaliation.

So, sir, you are incorrect, and misinformed. Additionally, the Watch would do very little to take care of the people of Lower, but the reasoning for that is probably best found out in game.

Though I did find a ton of NPC's randomly butchered, and I can say sir, that I had nothing to do with that! All the NPC's with weapons, yes, those were killed with DM supervision. A bunch of merchants down in the bazaar? No idea what killed them -- but I think it was an ooc act, and thus should be dealt with in an ooc manner, a polite tell to a DM asking them to be raised, might be the best bet.

Please try to excuse me ‘sirs’ for taking a couple hour break from the game and missing this event. My graycloak cleric of Torm would have fought and or died trying to save these people. But alas he must have been sleeping and not heard the cries of the dying. Fact is nobody would have even thought to go to the Triad for help anyway; I mean why would innocent people go to the triad for help while they’re families are being slaughtered?

This is a game mechanics and RL issue. Just because RL does not allow us to be on at all times does not mean that our PC’s are not there. Can I ask if any Triad Graycloaks showed up for this ‘event’? I would think if they had known (heard from anybody) they would have been there.

Sorry, IMO this is just wrong and should not have happened without being scheduled DAYS in advance.

Lower and upper are a great distance away Btw.

also some facts to point out.

Lowersman arent on good terms with Grey cloaks and vice Versa BEST FOIG!

I think you're over-reacting a little! Events like this would lose so much if they were all scheduled days in advance.

When you find dead NPCs, the two most probable causes are: - event in which a DM was present, and you may have missed it, - event in which a DM was not present in which case someone broke server rules, and a dm will likely raise the NPCs and life will go on as if nothing happened.

In both cases, it's already history. One in which you'll end up hearing about it IC or on the forum "dm event". One which never happened.

Concerning Lower, it's a chaotic place where people die all the time, hence the "i don't care much" reaction you met.

RIP, I like you from the times I've had the good fortune of interacting with your characters, but I really have to disagree with what you're saying.

I appreciate the fact you wanted to participate meaningfully in this event, but Lower is pretty much set up as an area where there's constant bloodshed and violence. I was a little annoyed OOCly there wasn't a reset once the fun was over and we remained merchantless, but other than that, this has, just did, and will continue to happen as long as there is a Lower. Lower has been a place where watchmen and spellguard have been openly attacked and murdered for about a century, so if you have several generations of humans building that sort of hate and resentiment for one another, they are not exactly going to shed tears, let alone put their lives on the line, when some stuff starts happening.

People did actually try to stop them... they just weren't very successful. The group had prepared to take on anything so a couple of NPCs and scattered PC resistance wasn't going to cut the mustard. In a week or two, a couple of the team good PCs with equipment and levels will log on at once and end it (and if you're around and public about your beliefs, there's a good chance your Tormite can cut his teeth on them). Ultimately, life goes on.

The only aspect of this event that didn't pan out in a way I understood was, especially considering how random a lot of the violence started becoming, why some NPCs didn't start leaving the area if only in shout emotes or on the public notices board. If I was some freedom obsessed pauper I'd more than likely choose the Watch and Spellguard over that tyrant.

Ultimately, it's better that the event happened with little to no warning, because issuing a well intentioned idea like this (scheduling PC actions that have a large server impact) can have really negative reprocussions. We have to define, in some fashion, how meaningful the action must be in order to be called large. Besides, if these guys got beat up by the leveled and prepared PCs that could take them on, no one would have ever heard of this Montezzi character, we would have no villian, and there would be no awesome quest laid out to mace his brains out. Don't think of it like he's the king forever because nobody told you to log in, think of him like a really high level DM quest in the middle of Lower waiting to get his face axed in.

RIPnogarD And while my lone character said stuff to them all I had backing me up were NPC guards, which kept these ROLL-players from killing me and racking up XP from my death also.

Yeah, the NPC guards are what keeps 50% (a literal percentage) of the PCs from mugging/killing you at any given opportunity. :)

RIPnogarD, I appreciate the fact you're passionate on the topic, but I think you're perspective on this whole matter is skewed.

You mention that this all happened due to OOC game mechanics and RL issues. Among your arguments was the fact that your PC could not react because you were not online. Although all PCs are inhabitants of Sanctuary, when you're offline, it's safe to say you're not in the gameworld. It is a game! It's impossible to account for these things. How can we effectively put everyone in Lower Sanctuary online for this event? And how can we schedule this event days in advance without it being a surprise? I'm sorry you weren't able to participate, but to say that claiming it's an RL or OOC Mechanic issue won't get you anywhere.

You also mentioned that the players took complete advantage to kill peasants and took no consequences. Lower Sanctuary is chaotic. There is no ruling body, nor anyone willing to enforce any non-existent law. Although these people killed many peasants, who is going to stand up to them? Will the beggar child, the peasant, or the Harbinger Guard seriously take on the people who have murdered so many? The attitude of people in Lower Sanctuary is to fend for themselves, and so as long as Beggar Joe is alive I doubt he'd want to get involved.

Upper Sanctuary's reaction was perfect from the sound of it. While there will be members of Upper Sanctuary that are concerned, the Watch does not have jurisdiction there. Unless they have an order from their Council or Sheriff, why bother? The average Watchman would be breaking the law by enforcing in Lower, risk losing his job, and even his own life. That and bear in mind many people in Upper Sanctuary hate those of Lower Sanctuary for their anarchy. In fact, I would wager there are many of Upper that are happy for the slaughter!

So, to wrap things up, I believe taking all this to OOC context is unnecessary. There's honestly nothing to argue about here, since there were no OOC violations. (DMs were present throughout.) Though as I said, you have great passion for the topic. Why not use this in-game? You have a Greycloak, why not have him rally the other Greycloaks to fight the murderers? Why not have him lobby the Council and Watch to do something? He can rally folks and make a big deal out of the whole matter. This event is the catalyst for a lot of storytelling, rivalries, political action, and other interesting events. It's not often that something of this magnitude happens in Lower Sanctuary, so let's take advantage of it.

I hope that helped you out and I look forward to seeing what you'll make of it!

You guys are right, I am passionate about it but still thinks it's wrong. My PC literally went to the Stand, Town hall, Guard house and triad looking for help, yelling "Everybody in lower has been killed!" Make this the notice to every PC in the game that they now know, because no matter who doesnt care, that lone fighter cared enough to look for help and recieve none (and be told nothing/ignored by IG players).

Simple RL question for everybody and anybody... Man walks into a bar (no, this is not a joke) and starts yelling "Everybody outside is dead!" Do you? A) Wonder and figure out what he's talking about or maybe tell or [tell] him IG what happened B) Keep talking the the guy 'role' playing that he has his pecker hanging out

Players ignored me and continued to deal with the pecker wielder.

As an individual present for the conflict, Some things to understand, RIP.

A) Not -everyone-, -everywhere-, at -all- times will have information. to my knowledge people were slaughtered between 8-11 PM CST. I'm not sure when you did this, but as your post says 1 AM My time, it would be a fair deal of time after said event. While people ignoring you is annoying, there is the fact that some people just plain don't know about the event.

B)Your concern with "Men in lower are dead", however, raises another point. As Sternhund said, Lower is a chaotic and troublesome place. Individuals constantly die in lower. It is commonplace. Not to say people don't get upset, but you cannot expect a mass rally like you would an invasion of upper, over a few dead beggars.

3)The watch and Spellguard didn't care much when the Ledskir Gang was overthrown. They didn't care much when the Nancy gang were overthrown. If you look at the big sign, it says "Lower is not a district of sanctuary". It is basically another country. There were not Watch or Spellguard PC's present during the entirety of the event, so it makes sense there wouldn't be much response.

However, something I wish to point out, and raise as a passionate issue of my own.

In a week or two, a couple of the team good PCs with equipment and levels will log on at once and end it (and if you're around and public about your beliefs, there's a good chance your Tormite can cut his teeth on them). Ultimately, life goes on.

First, EFU has no dominant "Team good". A common misnomer that can be dealt with later. Second: Said Team Good does not always form hit squads and conquer the world. EFU has no dominant alignment and there is a common misconception that "Good always wins" on EFU, and frankly that just isn't the case. I have no idea how the events that went down last night will play out in the coming weeks, and I don'rt think we'll be "Winning EFU" any time soon but to go "LOLOL GOODGUYS GANK THEM ALL SOON FOR TEH EPIC WINZ", is something OOC. While playing an evil character is all about PvP, Conflict, and likely death, It doesn't take levels or loot to bring down anyone. Ever. RP is a magical tool. I'm sure I'm taking the quote out of context however, so I appologize, but talk of OOC organizing things like that really kill my fun as an evil dude.

Well, my ambitious character and his IC allies/friends have been roleplaying their little evil hearts out since day one, and I think there's been plenty of opportunity to figure out what they've been doing. We've also participated in a couple large-scale attended public events such as Goldbrick's speech where there was more opportunity for spies to learn what our plans were. And finally, if you look at the forums (both Public Notices and The Lower Sanctuary forum) you'll see that we've been recruiting there for the benefit of anyone whose playertime doesn't match ours, and also did schedule our event time in advance so anyone who wanted could come.

The actual event itself was several hours long, and involved a lot of pcs, and was pretty well dm-supervised for all of it.

We didn't kill that many npcs, just the armed ones who the Dms had attack us.

But I guess you're upset because when you came in later (I'm guessing well after a lot of the Pcs involved had logged off to go to bed), you didn't get much of a reaction, but remember that if you look at the history books Lower has seen tons of rebellions, gang warfares, brawls, riots, andother stuff. The Watch and Spellguard don't go there for a reason. Also it can be tough to get much of a reaction when everyone knows that the players who were responsible had to log off because, well, we're human and need to sleep just like you.

Also some councilor PCs and other PCs did respond on the forums for the benefit of anyone who missed their rp, if you look around.

There'll be plenty of opportunity to respond when you want, we'll keep playing until our characters die, but we're just trying to provide some fun for ourselves and others so I am sad you didn't much like this, although really I think it's up to the dms to decide if it was all right.

Rereading your post, RiP, we may be talking about completely separate events, since my character hasn't gone into Upper since the event, and never spoke with yours. Also I think a lot of the npcs in lower that are gone aren't dead just in their homes, unless something else happened that I'm unaware of!

Seems like there is some confusion going on here. Things were really laggy for a while, so I had to limbo every NPC clogging up the area. If you logged in and saw a barren wasteland, that is probably why.

Although I wasn't involved in any of this (I can't play due to computer issues), there is likely a good reason people were ignoring you. It is likely that they did not know what happened, and in general when you see a lot of dead NPC's around you're supposed to ignore it incase of someone accidentally (or purposefully) killing them OOCly. In those cases a DM will raise them and life goes on like nothing happened. That might have been why people were ignoring you.

Also, you have to consider the fact that the Graycloaks are pretty much hated in Lower, as are most people and things from Upper Sanctuary. If you were running around Upper Sanctuary shouting that people were slaughtered, most people from Upper likely would have cheered and gave their blessing to whoever was behind it.

Regardless, I think this provides you with wonderful IC opportunities.

Any Paladin and or cleric of goodly Gods, who cheer this, beyond a shadow of a doubt, should have their class status revoked. Any Paladin or cleric of a goodly God that is unwilling to help innocents being slaughtered should have their class status revoked. Any Paladin or cleric of a goodly God that is unwilling to avenge a slaughter of this magnitude (if that’s what it was) should have their class status revoked.

I apologize for being harsh in my original post but it was quite frustrating seeing this and getting little to no response from other players.

...

Maybe they weren't on?

How will dying help them?

Yea.

Since I often miss out on things when I am not on, I understand your concerns. I recently missed a DM quest with a faction since I was about 15 mintues late. There was no way I could have found them to help, no way to prevent any deaths or affect the outcome.

The way I see it is that when you are not in game, your character is in a place that has no access to to what is going on around them. New Dunwarren is far away from Lower and would hear nothing until rumors started showing up. Any lone paladin that happens to be about is not going to run into Lower by themselves to defeat the team that already won the battle. As someone's signature read, Lawful Good does not mean Lawful Stupid. Due to the nature of the online game, one must consider this round 1 and then plan for round 2. If every problem gets fixed when it occurs then nothing would change on the server and it would become static. Round 2 and 3 will be a different day, with different people perhaps, but it is the way it goes. When I first joined the server, everyone in Lower was dead and collecting flies. You would get sick walking by. I didn't realize till months later that this was not "common" as it took a while to improve.

When I was on yesterday there were a few Shouts by the DMs that mentioned a few horrific things going on. The forum Gossip and Major Events posting was updated. Though the slaughter was large, many of the more jaded citizens can be heard grunting with indifference as they slowly drink themselves to death in their filthy homes and inns. The time lag should also be seen as a courtesey for those who missed an event, to allow them to have a chance.

Also one must consider that some people on could care less about what is going on and just want to powergame away quests because dealing with interesting RP does not get them any XP or loot. Or if they know the DM's left for the day, they know it would be useless to pursue PvP. Now if you had found a group of Paladins and no one gave a hoot, well that might be something. If you found average folk who hate the Lower scumbags and they did not want to die fighting the winners, well you found a group of savvy if not just drunk folk.

Best just see what you can do going forward. build a group and work with it to achieve a goal. Getting together random people around town is not going to work unfortunately as it would in old fashioned PnP.

For what it's worth, the people in the Lower Trade Building / Auction House / Bazaar Building (I don't even know any more...!) were killed by Volts that got lured in there by a PC who fled a QA. I don't think that bit was intentional.

I still think it's a great RP opportunity for everyone, regardless if you were there to witness the event or not. What happened sounds awesome, and it's great to see that there are people actively working to change the status quo of the server. Those involved (on either side) should be applauded for their actions. It's things like this that make EfU one of the greatest servers to play on.

I only wish I could log on and play. :(

I hate to say this but let me use this guys logic.

You The person who posted this havent tried to claim Revenge yet! I DEMAND EVIL POINTS GIVE HIM EVIL POINTS FOR NOT AVENGING THEM YET AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Dwarven Offender First, EFU has no dominant "Team good"... Second: Said Team Good does not always form hit squads and conquer the world.

Dwarven Offender EFU has no dominant alignment and there is a common misconception that "Good always wins" on EFU, and frankly that just isn't the case.

Dwarven Offender While playing an evil character is all about PvP, Conflict, and likely death, It doesn't take levels or loot to bring down anyone. Ever. RP is a magical tool.

I do not believe there is a static 'team good' that plots out attacks on evil PCs and associated groups OOCly then carries said attacks out in game. I do believe events will reach a fever pitch, several goodly and lawfully aligned PCs will happen to be logged on at moment that are fairly uber, and that will be the end of the thing altogether. I think it would be nice if it lasted longer than that, but the odds are low.

Semli

Dwarven Offender While playing an evil character is all about PvP, Conflict, and likely death, It doesn't take levels or loot to bring down anyone. Ever. RP is a magical tool.

I do not really understand what you mean here. I cannot fight you by talking to you, or by posting on the forums. I could potentially plot out your death and have it carried out by other PCs, but somewhere along the line someone is going to actually have to fight. Someone who will, presumedly, have levels, loot, OR (something I didn't mention before, so I apologize) a pronounced advantage in numbers.

Not to degenerate into further off-topic shenanigans-

I appologize for not clarifying further. By "Bring down", I wasn't talking about killing an individual, so much as making them no longer a threat. If you want to take a look at a faction that got brought down, take a gander at the Seekers. Granted it was self imposed, as it left the city a good deal of its public relations was -shot- for many a months, and still in many circles is mocked.

Good and Evil, Lawful and Chaotic are both subjects to propaganda, Ideology, and other aspects and could easily be brought down without things ever turning to PvP.

Only but a single of many examples A surly watchman who is always harassing you, for instance, could be brought down by an elaborate frame-up. While I don't want to throw anything around, Framing individuals if proven guilty, is both A) a swanky plot that is almost completely PC driven B) Can involve a lot of different characters depending on how you go about it.

Framing is only one, however if done right, can literally cripple a PC's motives, goals, and outlook, forcing individuals to do a fair deal of RPing to get things back on track.

Back on topic, however!

The Rumor forum is your #1 source of OOC information if you weren't around for an event. In fact, I think that was the point it was entirely started. That is the answer you would likely get from most NPC's in upper/New Dunwarren/ From people who weren't there.