PhK, currently does not take into affect saves vs fear. So, you can have plus a bajjillion saves vs fear and it does nothing if you're PhKed.

I sort of think this is whack. For IC and OOC reasons. Maybe the server's already made this change but I found nothing on it.

In summation: Make saves vs fear add to the fortitude and will saves made against the spell PhK.

Whoops! That was me.

Funnily enough, that's not how it works in PnP. I'll change it if the other DMs support it.

I'm pretty sure saves VS fear do affect PhK, or they certainly did the last time I saw it.

I've updated the mechanics board as required though.

If it still doesn't work that way, it's a bug.

I went through the script. It makes a save against mind-affecting, but whether mind-affecting includes fear is difficult to say. It certainly doesn't make a save specifically against fear, and EfU uses the default, unchanged script.

It should be saves vs. fear. I thought it was, but if it isn't, we should change it.

Wasn't it originally vs fear, then it was changed to be vs mind so that protection vs evil/good/neutral will protect against it?

pfe/pfg/pfn protect against fear-spells.

Fear is considered mind-affecting while mind-affecting is not considered fear, I believe.

So this will just lower the effectiveness of phk without giving it any new perks.

I've tested this and confirmed that mind-affecting and fear are two completely different save types that do not overlap. Will applies universally, of course (so Will stacks with mind-affecting and fear while mind-affecting does not stack with fear).

PhK will be changed to use save vs. fear in a coming update.

Wait, does this mean paladins are immune to PhK?

Off topic, but yes, Paladins are immune to PHK.

It's supposed to be a will check to realise that it's not real, as opposed to resisting fear, and thus is working properly.

Whether or not it is modified for EFU remains to be seen!

Should immunity fear be immunity to PhK, then?

Immunity to fear grants immunity to PhK, this has always been the case and isn't special for EfU. PhK just doesn't use a save vs. fear in PnP for the reason Metro mentioned. I think this will probably make PhK more powerful; at last, I've seen lots more +save vs. mind-affecting than fear. <.<

Well, I would suggest it for balance reasons as it is not hard to get a DC 24-6 phk, which I think would even kill most clerics very easily, especially considering a wizard can cast three PhKs before a player can really react. I guess it is not a big deal though -- but it makes PhK very hard for non casters to counter.

As long as PfE still works... <.<

Kuo-Toa Killer it makes PhK very hard for non casters to counter.

For the record, i used up a wand of PhK and never killed anyone. Two saves (WILL and FOR) makes a high chance of successful save in the end, IMO, not even counting the Pfe/neutrality/good.

Quit making mages less powerful than they should be! :cry:

The spell is only really scary when two feats are used to augment the DC, or possibly on creatures with +2 int modifiers that start with 20 int.

Not sure where I stand on this issue yet.

While I completely understand where people are coming from. I'd like to make a small point.

Mages have abysmal Hp.

Like, Jokingly low.

Even with a good deal of con, you'd be pressed to get over 50 Hp before level 7-ish, I'd imagine, though I'm no expert on building.

As one of the people packing this spell at the moment, I'll tell you now i've only used it on one PC, and they made the save. Thankfully that was in jokingly bad Arena PvP.

Using it in serious PvP, the term "Gunshy" comes to mind. While this spell with the two DC boosting feats I have (Even though I did not take them for the sole purpose of boosting PhK), People can still make the save.

They do that, where does that leave me?

Likely dead.

PhK, like all magic, is strong but not unbeatable. Even with the higher end feats.

If you make the save, Its quite assured I, with my abysmal Hp, will likely be downed in one or two hits.

KD, or Sneaks, Or a simple hasted warrior, vs. a Mage is just as much as a death sentence as PhK vs. Non-casters. KD does damage plus makes us unable to run. That's endgame. Sneak Attacks alone could drop a mage in one or two hits if you're high level facing a high level wizard. A Hasted warrior gets an extra attack per round. Two or Three attacks in one round? Shit. Dead mage.

Its interesting, this experience, because I've never on an RP server had an illusionist get to level 7 for this spell, before EFU. The PhK stigma is something of an enigma. We've all heard of the WOLOL PHK FROM INVIS attacks, yet in all honesty, I would put it up there on par with Sneak Attacks, now that I've experienced having it.

When you play a rogue, and go to fight someone, you usally hit them with Hold Person, or Colorspray, or a Tanglebag, or KD, to hold them so you can throw down your sneaks. People don't seem to complain about that as much as PhK, when the end result is practically the same.

Is it the fact that its so "BAM", instant?

Yes, RwG, it's because it's BAM instant.

I thought I posted on this thread, but apparently I didn't. RwG just hit the tip of the iceberg here. Sneaks, KDs, any number of other equally nasty spells can do the exact same thing. The biggest downfall of PhK is the TWO saving throws. PhK is mean, but it's not THAT mean. Let's look at it for a moment

If you have a high will save (+10ish) then you'll be getting about a 40% chance to pass the save. Just a guess, but yea, about that.

If you have a high fort, another 40% chance to pass.

Beating a level 4 spell at level 7 really isn't all that impossible, if you've got either one of these.

Other nasty spells to think about...

Evard's BT Fireball Acid Splash! (just kidding) Fire Arrow Mestil's Acid Breath ImpInvis (more of a backup/safety precaution, but this is a SERIOUSLY nasty spell when fighting the unprepared)

If you want to nerf PhK then you should really look at the other instant death spells. This one is far from being instant because you have two saves. Think of things like Drown. One save, fail and you die. Slay Living, another fort save or die spell. Petrify fort save or stoned for life.

All of these spells are capable of being achieved by the low level magic world of EfU.

No one is complaining about them, despite the fact that they all only are a singe die roll away from character retirement.

I've personally been drowned by a water elemental and petrified by a beholder, let me say that while I thought it was a crappy quick way to die, it's how the spell works.

PhK, as someone said, can be likened to sneak attack. You get one shot basically then you better run or hope the HP dealt was enough to make them stop to heal or be dead anyway.

Leave this spell alone......besides, it good to actually have fear instilled by a dual-feated Gnome Illusionist with 20 INT. I know I wouldn't go after him.

Phk!

The name alone strikes fear into us mortals!

Mua ha ha hahah haha ha!

PhK can be dealt with. Just take Iron Will, Luck of Heroes &co.

A human fighter can easily spare a feat for Iron Will or Luck of Heroes without too much trouble, and it effectively doubles his chances of survival against Will saves at level 8( more so at lower level) And other races often have their own little bonuses (halflings get a +1 to all saves, for example.)

So how does this spell work now? Has any change been made? Does bonus saving throws against fear apply to the saves?

PhK now uses save vs. fear, not mind-affecting.

Ok thanks... One more question, does bonus saving throws against fear also add to the fort save? I was told it doesn't, but just to be sure...

Fear is a subset of Will, not Fort.

I'm a bit confused.

Does Prot. From Evil/Neutral/Good/Law/Chaos still protects you from PhK?

I've heard that it did not no more.

If Prot. from alignment protects you from the Fear, Scare and Fear aura... Why shouldnt it protect you from the fear in PhK?

Snoteye PhK now uses save vs. fear, not mind-affecting.

Does this mean paladins are immune?

So is the new formula: Pure will save + any bonus V fear?

Is the fort save still there or is it gone?

PfA should still protect against PhK.

Is the fort save still there or is it gone?

Does this mean paladins are immune?

So is the new formula: Pure will save + any bonus V fear?

Your Ring of +1 vs mindeffects, no longer helps. Your Helm of +2 vs. fear, now does.

Thats the only change. PhK is not any stronger, or weaker, then last time.

+1 mind effecting still helps. Fear is a subset of mind effecting spells.

PfE was not protecting against PhK last evening.

FYI. <_<

Abandoned Igloo +1 mind effecting still helps. Fear is a subset of mind effecting spells.

Snoteye I've tested this and confirmed that mind-affecting and fear are two completely different save types that do not overlap. Will applies universally, of course (so Will stacks with mind-affecting and fear while mind-affecting does not stack with fear).

PhK will be changed to use save vs. fear in a coming update.

Snoteye PfA should still protect against PhK.

DeputyCool PfE was not protecting against PhK last evening. FYI. <_<

Yes DM_Ebok.

<_<

p.s <3

DeputyCool PfE was not protecting against PhK last evening.

This is the case. If another DM reads this, as I don't have access to the module now, and don't know when I'll be home again, I've uploaded a fix to my home directory. It should be possible even for non-scripters to make the necessary changes.

It was terrible watching the two frontliners get PhKed, and even worse when a dm ruled that it was not a bug but a feature of my suggestion. >_>

Kuo-Toa Killer It was terrible watching the two frontliners get PhKed, and even worse when a dm ruled that it was not a bug but a feature of my suggestion. >_>

[Phil Sebben]

Ha-Hah![/Phil Sebben]

VINDICATION!

Muah hahah.

Kuo-Toa Killer It was terrible watching the two frontliners get PhKed, and even worse when a dm ruled that it was not a bug but a feature of my suggestion. >_>