This thread was precipitated by the ongoing discussion over the hook horrors quest.

Some people have mentioned that the quest is not too bad if you know ahead of time to memorize certain spells. Given.

You are supposed to (as far as I can tell) assume that each time you do a quest it is "the first time" and so you know nothing about what to expect. Given.

Now, do we extend this to mean that your character has NEVER fought any monster represented on a quest ever and so must "discover" anew at each server reset how to fight and win? I see a really bad "50 First Dates" analogy here.....

Or are we to assume that once you have fought a certain type of monster you can now add what you learned to your character's personal lexicon? If this is the way to go, then of COURSE I'm going to load up on certain spells if I know a quest is supposed to contain a certain monster type.

Of course, we must work on the "yes, I've fought hooks before, but not been in that particular warren" level or we ARE guilty of metagaming, right?

Thoughts?

I don't bother trying not to meta-game- To hard.

I try to keep it within reasonable limits.

Professor Death Or are we to assume that once you have fought a certain type of monster you can now add what you learned to your character's personal lexicon? If this is the way to go, then of COURSE I'm going to load up on certain spells if I know a quest is supposed to contain a certain monster type.

This is the desirable take on things, yes. Of course, you can't metagame things like knowing the warren outlay, where the traps are, that kind of thing. Metagaming can really just be avoided easily with common sense!

Just don't do it imo. Metagaming is easily replaced with caution.

The way that I have RPd the Hook Horrors quest, is to imagine that Commander Armand Waters of the Society regularly sends Society Ordinants (NPC Ordinants) into the Mines on patrol to check for the growth of aberrant colonies, such as Hook Horrors.

Each time I do the quest, I asume that Armand has been supplied with an intelligence report indicating that yet another Hook Horror warren has moved into the Mines, and needs to be removed in the interests of safeguarding Sanctuary.

Yes the quest location is in the same exact spot. Yes, my PC may have done the quest before. As Professor Death pointed out and MadCaddies re-interated, I believe it is reasonable to RP the development of a PC's knowledge on how to fight a certain creature over time and repeated experiences in-game.

I remember being drawn into a plot to hunt an illithid by a group bent on trailing through the Sand Caverns {Team Tempus}- and the way the whole event was talked about and organised inside Sanctuary, and on the way to the quest site, increasingly suggested to me that it was a tailor-made DM quest. So I was a bit excited by the whole atmosphere and RP experience. I only found out months later that the quest is a 'regular' part of the persistent EfU world.

Here's a good cliche to summarize all this: "It is not important whether you win or lose, but how you play the game."

RP is everything. :D Storytelling, and half-explained action, (which, for me, creates mystery and lots of personal unanswered/ unanswerable questions about the 'world') is what I like. And of course, with Team Tempus, well timed & well executed action was guaranteed as well.

One suggestion on a related topic about knowledge and metagaming is to put lore points on the board when you level up. This would represent your characters gain in knowledge about EfU and the underdark in general....since most people of Toril likely know little about it.

A few lore points every level is a great way to show character advancement. Ubel approves!

I agree, RP is definately where the richness of the game shows through, and the quality of the playerbase too. People that literally run through the Urdlen mines quest for example, I'll leave out the details to avoid spoilers but if you are so familiar with the quest, maybe it is time to go and do something else. There is quite a bit to do outside of Sanctuary and the immediate area...

What kills me in particular is the haste that people run through a quest with. When you play a rogue, who really would be a life saver if you didn't already know where the traps and badguys are... You feel like you are holding everyone up by disarming traps and scouting. Something that if you were in a new area, would be essential.

Just my 2 cents.

you_dirty_beggar A few lore points every level is a great way to show character advancement. Ubel approves!

It doesn't even have to be multiple lore points per level. just a single point every or every other level would represent knowledge gained.

Having 4-8 lore points (based on a level 8 character) is more than enough to indicate that you have some experience and knowledge of this realm. While 8 lore may still not be enough to identify that mystical shield you just found, it's enough to recognize a purple crystal and the fact that, in the underdark, that means healing properties and how to extract them.

When you play a rogue, who really would be a life saver if you didn't already know where the traps and badguys are... You feel like you are holding everyone up by disarming traps and scouting.

Yes! This angers me to no end! It ticks me off even more when people who have never done the quest run ahead anyways, but that's a different topic. Please, keep your OOC and IC knowledge separated. What happens IC stays IC, ya know? Also, I know that I, as a new player, didn't get this right away. If you see someone doing this, please don't scream at them in tells. Someone told me politely what the server policy was, and I am grateful. I'm sure new players everywhere share my feelings.

A polite tell is, nine times out of ten, the solution to an OOC problem.

Well, that was semi-random, but I hope someone gets something out of it.