I did this quest for the first time, it might have been just me or my party, but I found it so ridiculously easy. I'd suggest making the spawns a bit tougher, and adding some more strategic elements (Traps, locks, elevation, maybe a few pits for characters to fall down into. Some of these might not be possible, given that hook horrors aren't particularly intelligent) to the entirety to the quest.

Nickless it might have been just me or my party, but I found it so ridiculously easy.

All quests are, with the right party.

Try doing the same quest with another party to feel the difference. (ex: 8 player party with only 1 frontliner) It's warriors that make the difference.

I agree with this. Parties can roll through this quest using little or no supplies. The CR on the monsters is way too high for their difficulty, a level 5 character can sap up 12xp for the weakest hook horrors and 30+ for the strongest. This coupled with the sheer number of them causes the quest to be quite spammable.

Maybe we are all talking about a different quest, i have never had an easy run on this quest with any PC. In fact i generally avoid doing it as i consider it to be a death trap. I have only been through it once without dying.

Hate the player, not the quest.

Seriously i have fond memories of TPK on this quest or near TPK.

This quest could stand to be harder.

I have both steam rolled and almost been steam rolled by this quest myself. I'll concede that it may be a little on the easy side, but I guarantee you you can get some nasty spawns.

I will adjust it and agree it is too easy!

Letsplayforfun

Nickless it might have been just me or my party, but I found it so ridiculously easy.

All quests are, with the right party.

You clearly have not done all of our quests. : )

I think it is fine. Quite a few of the monsters cast dispel magic, and IMO the loot gained has already been scaled way back.

I'd like to see quests that are rarely done get better XP/loot, and the ones that are spammed repeatedly kept low XP/loot or lowered.

Or spiced frequently. :)

Personally I'd like to see exploding hook horrors, but that's just me.

If it gets tougher i for one will not be doing it.

I have never managed to complete this quest, and now I probably never will. I guess I am more mechanically inept than Dan after all. :(

</whining>

Please god no, not exploding hook horrors...

Be nice to the Ordinants, don't make things blow up on us.

I wasn't going to say this, but making the scripted quests harder across the board widens the gulf between very good players and new ones.

This makes the learning curve even more wicked, and coupled with the stiff XP penalties for dying, may discourage new players from staying wtih EfU.

Something to consider.

If anything, you are griefing them daily with your fancy pants armor! They won't stop bitching about it on the hook horror forums, man.

I'm just lowering CR, relax Gywdion. The quest is also capped at L9, which is hardly meant to be taken by newer players as it is.

(NWN has been around for four years!)

Quest's fine, don't change it.

I'm relaxed.

Just sharing one POV.

I know EfU has been around for four years. I've been here about three now.

Do we really need to make the quests more challenging and give less rewards?

It seems like many of the quests cost more to survive than what they pay out. I seem to remember the loot at the end of Hoar, Gnolls, Trolls, Ettercaps and Hook Horrors being pretty good.

There used to be significant RP over the spoils found. Now its 95% crap, and most of it is left on the ground. Characters say, "I'll take a healing potion and leave." Is that intentional? What's the fun in dumping all this crap in waste baskets to prevent server lag? Or selling 10 items for 23 gold to Norma?

We're making scripted quests harder, with poorer payout because...? If they are going to be harder - improve the loot at least. Especially for rarely done quests.

Since DM attention is limited, meaning DM spice with its accompanying rewards is limited...doesn't this create a PC power imbalance?

Is it a good idea to scale the quests towards those characters with intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the engine, with a lot of resources because of their rewards from DM attention?

I'm not saying this because of me. I've finally gotten good enough that I can (usually) survive scripted quests and moderate DM spice. But if the trend is toward increasing the already high level of challenge on this server, then long-term quest and PvP survivability is going revolve around who has the +5 soak DM loot and who doesn't.

If this seems whiney, it isn't intended. Just sharing a POV.

Agreed with Gwydion. Even as a dwarf with fourteen thousand hit points, it is shockingly difficult to survive something which only pays seventy gold and three crap items. I know the server is supposed to be hard, but a dwarf should be able to get full plate by level five. Really.

Hook Horrors is pretty high payout gold wise, imo. There are some nice drops in there too, sometimes! Definately not "70 gold and 3 crap items".

I for one like the quest the way it is (please for the love of all thats good dont do it wcsherry please dont make them explode), but wouldnt mind if the cap came down so less exp per beastie. As for steam rolling it, used to have all kinds of trouble with it then one day i did it with my Helmite priest in the company of one Ricco Jones.... Calm, tactical, forgiving... Ricco was none of these things but by god what a mess he made.

just for sake...

The quest is balanced and a party with wise guys can do it with some supplies and if and only if all play in group.

I done that many times and just 3 times nobody die.

If it goes more hard few players will go, remember the blue ogres shamans or hard illusions...few takes.

I can suggest a statistcs about what quests/dies are more done, to better evaluate about if "is soo hard or soo easy"

[]s tooh

Please do not misunderstand. I have never done this quest and do not know the reward. I was speaking in generalities from my personal experience. I also think we should make a different topic for what I was previously talking about, so I will shut up now.

wcsherry I'm just lowering CR, relax Gywdion. The quest is also capped at L9, which is hardly meant to be taken by newer players as it is.

(NWN has been around for four years!)

Everyone relax. All lowering the CR does is reduce the xp rewards.

I have to ditto Gwydion (and most other posts) in this thread.

I've seen parties rock and GET rocked on this quest. But it has tended to be somewhat resource intensive unless you have some serious spellcaster support to buff you, but then that's what the dispels are for.

As for the drops, in our last go, I was collecting as we went, and they SEEMED pretty decent (hadn't identified anything yet) other than the server reset before we made it back out and on re-log I had NONE of the loot I had collected. I've got mixed feelings about the XP issue - I think the XP is fine since the danger of horrors is pretty significant - some serious damage can be dealt VERY fast with those babies.

Gwydion I'm relaxed.

Just sharing one POV.

I know EfU has been around for four years. I've been here about three now.

Do we really need to make the quests more challenging and give less rewards?

It seems like many of the quests cost more to survive than what they pay out. I seem to remember the loot at the end of Hoar, Gnolls, Trolls, Ettercaps and Hook Horrors being pretty good.

There used to be significant RP over the spoils found. Now its 95% crap, and most of it is left on the ground. Characters say, "I'll take a healing potion and leave." Is that intentional? What's the fun in dumping all this crap in waste baskets to prevent server lag? Or selling 10 items for 23 gold to Norma?

We're making scripted quests harder, with poorer payout because...? If they are going to be harder - improve the loot at least. Especially for rarely done quests.

Since DM attention is limited, meaning DM spice with its accompanying rewards is limited...doesn't this create a PC power imbalance?

Is it a good idea to scale the quests towards those characters with intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the engine, with a lot of resources because of their rewards from DM attention?

I'm not saying this because of me. I've finally gotten good enough that I can (usually) survive scripted quests and moderate DM spice. But if the trend is toward increasing the already high level of challenge on this server, then long-term quest and PvP survivability is going revolve around who has the +5 soak DM loot and who doesn't.

If this seems whiney, it isn't intended. Just sharing a POV.

Snoteye I have both steam rolled and almost been steam rolled by this quest myself. I'll concede that it may be a little on the easy side, but I guarantee you you can get some nasty spawns.

Sentiment seconded.

This quest varies based on the group. If everyone has an enchanted weapon things go easier. Also, keep in mind that these things have several points where you are swarmed by them and often times, parties get party-wiped at those locales.

A quests ease or difficulty relies on party quality and any meta-knowledge applied.

maybe it's time this quest was revamped as far as map layout, spawn points, etc so even experienced players can not breeze through it.

Just for the record, in reference to the loot supposedly already being scaled back, I highly doubt that the loot has actually been changed (but rather continues to be randomized) as it has been since it was implemented.

Personally, I just find the quest to be one of the most boring ones in the module, and generally just don't see the appeal for players to go on it.

Maybe if a change is in order, a good idea would be to make it more interesting as well as more challenging. I know a lot of the loot is found on corpse placeables in this quest. Maybe the hook horrors could be in the process of carting a victim into the cavern when the party enters, and if you manage to overcome the opening melee without the NPC dying you get a little reward or something (not necessarily loot, maybe saving the NPC opens up a quest bonus area or something like Hoaran Temple, Gnolls, etc.). There could be a few NPCs scattered around that say something about how they thought it was bad when they got captured by slavers, but then these hook horrors took them, and things got much, much worse.

I haven't seen friendly NPCs in many quest areas, which I'm guessing is probably to reduce lag, and keep the dialogue mainly based on the players' reactions and RP, but if a quest doesn't generate much interesting mid-quest emoting anyway, it might be worthwhile to throw some friendly NPCs in, maybe give the PCs something to fight for.

It would make a lot of sense in this quest, since it involves the Ordinants. Maybe instead of just going to exterminate a bunch of Hook Horrors, the Ordinants need someone to rescue some people who were taken into this aberrant hive to be lunched on. This would add to the urgency of the quest, changing it from a simple extermination to a rescue mission.

It's crap

Fix it.

Constructive criticism, imo.

Somebody did take the time out to make that quest for the enjoyment of others, Thomas. This is also a 'suggestions' forum, so unless you have one, don't post.

Fine,

More spawns- more loot- better area design- and totally unrelated spawn that happens to be controlling the Hook Horrors with it's demented magic.

Good nough?

Great attitude. I like you.

Obnoxious comments aside, I do agree it's just mostly a crap-quest. It was added very early on in the module's history when we were desperate to provide quest-content, so it was sort of rushed-out-the-door.

If a DM is motivated to make it better, that'd be cool, but I know for myself personally I generally prefer to make a new and exciting quest rather than go back and touch-up an old one.

Of course, this quest is one of the few reasons, besides being invited there by a member or randomly exploring, that a person would go into the Society's chapterhouse. If there were more motivation or interest to take the quest, than that would... you know... get more people familiar with this rather obscure little DM faction.

I think a big reason why the quest fluctuates from easy to difficult for different people is how the entire quest area is a bunch of narrow hallways and large rooms. It seems like formation is much more critical in that quest the times I've done it, but it doesn't take much to pull a 300 and line your warriors in a narrow area and let the numerous hook horrors pour in to get chopped up. Though, with low to medium HP hook horrors that have decent to high damage, if they're given good opportunities to flank or surround, such as with people who are lured into large rooms, then things can go to shit quickly for some groups. also they r big chickenz

I'd like to see the Hook Horrors act more intelligently. They are adept at using their natural environment to their advantage, using their claws to hang upon the ceiling, and dropping down in the middle or behind groups of warriors! As it stands, they pretty much jump on character's swords.

Okay, so this is the Society quest. Fight abberations.

Based on the fact that the quest level is from 4-9, I think there should be two quests from the Society....chosen through a dialog choice.

The first quest could be the hook quest, set from levels 3-6. You know, as an introduction to the world of Abberations.

The second quest, perhaps facing beholder kin (not full balls out Chabzash Beholders) or an EfU-created Abberation race. This quest would be levels 6-10 and would require considerable time and effort to complete.

I've always thought the Society should play a larger role in Sanctuary, but as it stands, they do get a steady stream of players. I'm glad the faction has been kept around.

Without revealing too much, there is a similar quest already in place- Though not Society-linked.

Halfbrood I'd like to see the Hook Horrors act more intelligently.

I'd like to see a quest full of nothing but devourers. Intellect, such and such. Brain dogs.

popular belief? i thought that was just figgy's thing! nothing like smashing hook horrors while yelling ba-cock

The fixes I was writing about will go in next update.

......so must all brace for an all new type of pwng.

Ubel rides with us.

In the OP's example we had some crazy stuff happen, dispel from the hooks failed -three- times and we had spare enchancements to replace them. I was pretty close to dying in there about three times. We just had 3 people to uberbuff, and plenty of well geared warriors. We just had a lot of luck, a scout, and a general uberparty help us on our way. It was also my first time going through, and we had a very strong lineup and I spammed lots of healing and nearly got taken out trying to not let anyone die. I don't think anyone was under level 7 for that quest either.

I highly doubt that instance could be repeated most of the time.

MisterPAIN In the OP's example we had some crazy stuff happen, dispel from the hooks failed -three- times and we had spare enchancements to replace them. I was pretty close to dying in there about three times. We just had 3 people to uberbuff, and plenty of well geared warriors. We just had a lot of luck, a scout, and a general uberparty help us on our way. It was also my first time going through, and we had a very strong lineup and I spammed lots of healing and nearly got taken out trying to not let anyone die. I don't think anyone was under level 7 for that quest either.

I highly doubt that instance could be repeated most of the time.

Yes. We were pretty uber. And one still would've died if not for a quick mid-battle herb application!