I dont know about you guys, but have you noticed that -everyone- seems to be an expert on all the religions, around here?

I dont just mean you as a player. I mean I'm seeing PC's who are otherwise completely retarded, knowing shit about the actions of followers of a god they dont even follow.

There are few PC's I've encountered that as far as I'm concerned, should and probably do know the things they do IC. But i'm talking maybe three or four tops.

Seriously people. Just because you know something about a religion in FR, doesn't mean your PC who 95% likely would not have received an education about that religion, would have any idea what it is about.

Use common sense, and stop doing this. it is really annoying. Especially when I say something and out of no where you say "Oh that god doesnt exist!" Your PC probably has no way of knowing that, as unless you sit down with the entire FR/(EFU) Pantheon for tea every day, Your pc does not know all the deities, and cannot say the god does not exist. So seriously. sit down, stop talking, and admit your PC does not know.

The way I RP my character knowing a good bit about life is that he worked for the Harpell wizard family for a good deal of his life, and so absorbed some of their knowledge. Probably should have reflected that in his stats, but a character grows a lot after his description gets written. I agree with you that a warrior should, in general, know mostly about Tempus, Tymora, and maybe Talos or something. He should know of other gods, but not details and such.

This problem probably stems from us all being such meganerds and reading the FR books backwards and forewards. If you are not a meganerd, please send me an angry PM, telling me how you did NOT cry when Cattie-brie died. *grin*

EDIT: She doesn't die. Really. I made that up to scare you. Now go finish the book!

Its not that some people might have a basic understanding of what a god is about. But when some random jackass starts preaching the dogma of MY god (A god I follow and they do not) to me, or some such. That's a problem.

If you are not a clergy of that church, You should know nothing about hte clergy or inner workings of that church aside from the basic things they uphold, unless there is something in your backstory about it. But even then, It's still pretty lame.

And Dragon - I have never read the PHB, or any similar resources. Nor do I ever plan to. What I know about FR is basically all learned IG, with the exception of a few things I picked up from the realmslore section of the forum, and the occasional wikipedia article.

Religious dogma is represented by the Lore skill.

Merchant's know a lot about religions because knowledge can be used to get money.

Maybe that half orc wielding a greatsword once visited a library and did an all night reading course on the religions of the realms.

If the people are RPing there 6 intelligence half orc as a scholar, then we have a problem.

I think if there is a problem, it should be taken to the DMs! Just as you don't think people should know things about your character, you don't know everything about other peoples characters. Maybe the others are followers of the same god secretly! You never know. Better to go with the flow, or ask a DM if you have concerns.

Truthfully I think most people should have some knowledge of religions but shouldnt be experts. Like that cyric is evil and Baneites are evil tyrants. But one shouldnt know alot about dieties of other pantheons. Except orc Gods Theyd just know. (there all bad.) But there shouldnt be experts on Ghaunadaur or the Drow dieties.

I took a few points of Lore for exactly this reason, but even that only covers basic information about the deities, and certainly not all of them. Specialized knowledge about specific dogmas and rituals really ought to be left to the clerics of each particular faith.

What's wrong with someone challenging the existence of your god? It's perfectly IC for someone to mock your religion, call it false, claim you're a heretic, and spit on your boots over it.

Religion is taken very seriously in the FR, expect scorn if you don't conform to what the average person knows about the gods.

You know. Claiming to follow another deity isn't looked at very nicely by the one you serve, specially if your a cleric. How else are those around you going to shout the name of your deity in either fear, anger or praise?

As for someone declaring a god doesn't exist, thats lame up to a point. It would be great if that person declared other real religions as fake too. >_> Rather then meta-ing the Website listing.

I'd love it if mentioning the name of an evil deity could bring you disastrous attention. But it doesn't. That 'would' keep those cyric shouters and Bane stompers a tad bit~ weary about idle chatter and tossing the name about. I always used to love how Shars name was one you never wanted to speak, it really brought a feeling of dread into the RP. When those deities 'are' invoked- it better be within a damned good curse. >_>

The only problem I see is that some people know EVERY god in Faerun. How do they know that a god you refer to as the Elder must be some evil god worshipped by the drow?

Oh! I have one point of lore, I know that Gargauth was once called Gargenth the Tenth and that his clerics can use Trickery Domain and often wear one white sock on their holy day of Tensies. Today is Tensies and you have one white sock!

That is the part that gets ridiculous. If you're hiding your god, how exactly people can make that quick leap from "He says he worships Oghma" to knowing you worship Bale.

Part of this comes from a paladin's ability to spam Detect Evil. As I often argue! Detect evil was designed for small groups at the Pen and Paper table. It is not meant for multiplayer games where evil clerics may try to infiltrate or fool the players. It was designed with the idea in mind that players shouldn't be tricked by evil if they have a paladin because good should always beat evil.

As Ebok mentioned, if you're feeling particularly upset about your cleric being outed, speak with the DMs. Perhaps together you can come up with a lore roll to know whether your PC's god exists. If you think someone who doubts your clever scheme shouldn't be well educated/intelligent enough to do it, ask them for a lore roll.

I invest heavily in the skill with most of my PCs for a reason. With 10-12 lore, I think it's perfectly reasonable to know about the general teachings, history, and followers of the big mainstream gods, as well as limited information about most of the obscure or secretive gods.

I suspect that most people in FR know that various gods stand for various things, and the well educated likely know that most of the gods who stand for similar things engage in modestly well known wars for control over a particular aspect of life. If your cleric is pretending to worship a god that's quite similar to another deity, and no one knows about any sort of struggle between the two, it's not unreasonable to doubt what's being said.

All of this could be dealt with ICly.

Madskillsmike All of this could be dealt with ICly.

Poor sportsmanship isn't dealt with ICly.

It is an OOC problem that everyone and his dog has had a chance to read through the Campaign Setting and thinks that makes their PC an expert too.

Most PCs were former slaves, how much education about the gods do the drow give you? Must be veritable schools for slaves in Traensyr.

Plus, while most players can list every god in the Faith and Pantheon book, I bet none of these 12 Lore PCs actually could list the rare and unheard of gods. Which brings about a rather simple premise, you assume your PC with 12 lore knows something because you as a player decide you should know it--often so you can "win" against some one who is hoping you won't know it.

Yet, you never made a lore roll with a DM to see if you'ld really know it. As evidence, take a day or two and play a character who worships Maluk. See how many players claim you're worshipping a god that doesn't exist, because he's not listed in Faiths and Pantheons-or who bother to ask a DM for a Lore roll to see if they do know him, or who assume you're worshipping Cyric because you're lying about the existance of a god everyone knows doesn't exist.

Yet all the same, Maluk does exist--or did--or will someday. People put too much reliance on what they see in the core books, and don't realize there are secret gods, lost religions, forgotten continents in the Realms still and that random adventurers who aren't sages not only won't know that stuff, but probably don't know much about even the major gods of secrets, lies, etc. How many adventures know Mask is still alive? With 12 Lore, when even sages who have 30 Lore and are NPCs are pretty sure he's been killed?

That's where it starts to get just plain silly. It is meta-knowledge, pulling things that you the player know and assuming that it is knowledge your character should know.

For the record, I think you have been doing everything right up to this point, Cruzel. The defenses your character has made against the slander have been pretty convincing, I thought.

I also don't see many people getting outraged by the characters running around with Red Skull masks. That ought to be a much bigger red flag than something rolled up in someone's pack.

Yup Kyle thought they where talking about a different Vincent. Kyle doesn't know about the gods in fact all the knowledge he has i have learned in game from interacting with pc's so he knows about sune sharess torm tyr ilmater, tymora, Bane etc. from talking to priest or followers.