I have a question for the general public. First, this is my second time playing a paladin;my first was short-lived. So, I am still trying to learn and adjust my paladin's actions and feelings and research for new information. Here's my question:

If Upper and Lower were to collide into open war, what side would the paladins in Sanctuary support? Lower or Upper? This is just to satisfy my curiosity. What do YOU think?

:)

The question isnt that hard to figure out-- think of the tendency of both settlement to be Lawful/Neutral to Chaotic/Neutral and which side do you think a Lawful/Good would feel more comfortable in?

So depends on the char, but most likely Upper -- Paladins prefer Order to Anarchy.

Paladins despise chaos, and dislike associating with chaotic people -- which would lead to a Paladin having a hard time in the slums.

EDIT: But there aren't going to be any war so the question is redundant! -- just in general.

On the other hand, many paladins would be likely to sympathize with the downtrodden and the oppressed. They may see the possibility of redemption, if only the poor lost souls of Lower can be shown the true path to righteousness.

I think if they had to choose they'd go and form their own settlement, ldo.

The paladins did try to form their own settlement.

Then a bunch of Lowerites killed them.

:lol:

We all know who to blame for that...

The Nortorious GANGSTA that is Canzah! lord of lower!

Yes, Upper is lawful, but lets say that the law is abused and the leaders are corrupted and use this power to oppress the citizens. Lower is referred to as chaotic, but yet there are the poor that are good at heart and do not have any say-so down there. Most of Lower is ran by gangs. So, a paladin is Lawful Good, don't you have the "lawful" of Upper and the "good" of Lower to decide on?

I'm not using this topic to base any of my paladin's decisions on, it's just a discussion that I was curious about. Rather or not Upper and Lower actually battle IG is irrelevant to this topic.

AScottBay The paladins did try to form their own settlement.

Then a bunch of Lowerites killed them.

:lol:

Then the lower folks who attacked all died too.

Back on topic though, typically, the paladins side with upper. Though that may not be the case depending on which side is starting the war and for what reasons.

Typically, the Upper/Lower conflict is rooted in the Law/Chaos or Tyrany/Freedom type of struggle.

So as someone else said above, the paladin would probably side with whom ever seems to be supporting a goal/reason for war that is closest to Lawful Good.

Paladins must also fight against those who support, enforce or create unjust laws. They must right wrongs...even if it means taking on 'the man' sometimes. They must always be just, always be fair and always be willing to stand up for the little guy when the little guy is right.

If there is any group that knows more about divided loyalties, it is the paladins. They should wish to protect the poor and helpless in Lower while rallying against the lawlessness and crime. They should wish to uphold the law and justice of Upper, while remaining worried about its growing fanatacism and tyranny.

In short, I doubt they are going to be comfortable with either side fully.

A paladin should want to reform most factions in Sanctuary which is where interestingly conflict is born.

My paladin had the strange challenge of balancing his concern for Lower with his desire for order. He was never quite accepted by either (See Eleint Accord)

A paladin would smite both sides equally.

Staring Death A paladin would smite both sides equally.

... and without bias.

Semli

Staring Death A paladin would smite both sides equally.

... and without bias.

... and shortly thereafter multiclass into Blackguard after a major and inexplicable alignment change.

I think it definately depends on the paladin, their history/story, and their personality. It is perfectly believable for a paladin to support either side, but there ought to be a lot of friction caused by doing so. Both sides are rife with evil, both sides have a fair amount of good influences, and either way innocent people are going to get hurt.

All in all, paladins would be more likely to oppose the war outright than fight for one side or the other, generally speaking. Some, like Hoaran paladins, may think that one side or the other is unjust, and fights on one side... until justice is reached. Then maybe he'll switch sides again! >.> Hoaran paladins are silly-fun.

Oroborous If there is any group that knows more about divided loyalties, it is the paladins. They should wish to protect the poor and helpless in Lower while rallying against the lawlessness and crime. They should wish to uphold the law and justice of Upper, while remaining worried about its growing fanatacism and tyranny.

In short, I doubt they are going to be comfortable with either side fully.

Bam.

Paladins would be on the side of the innocent, good people - wherever they are from.

If a bunch of Lower reprobates were tormenting a goodly watchman who was just doing his job watching over a shop, they would be on the watchman's side.

If a watchman was beating the crap out of an innocent lower youth, they would be on the youth's side.

And so forth.

A paladin might want to uproot the corruption in Upper and build a protective haven for the oppressed in Lower while ridding it of gangs and such. He'd be on his own side, really, IMO.

I think Sune Paladins should get an extra detect ability: Detect Ugly. For balance, if you are low level in paladin levels you have a chance to get dazed depending on how much ugly people you are surrounded by.

Letsplayforfun A paladin might want to uproot the corruption in Upper and build a protective haven for the oppressed in Lower while ridding it of gangs and such. He'd be on his own side, really, IMO.

this was tried, many were killed, the ward remains, life goes on

While the Paladin will rather see and live in a lawful society, it doesn't necessarily mean he will choose their side per definite. If war would come between Lower and Upper, a Paladin won't be likely to join either side if both sides are equally wrong. Instead they will seek to protect the innocent from harm. A Paladin's code doesn't bind him to protect a settlement, it binds him to who whats Lawful (Paladins' Code) and Good. If Upper decides to infiltrate Lower and kill everyone there, rest assured you will lose your Deity's favor if you run along with the rampaging masses.

The problem of being a paladin (well for me this isn't a problem but some people think it is :roll: ) is that just because they are masters of combat, healing, and all around bad ass saving throws does not mean that every dispute makes them rally the troops and beat the drums of war.

A paladin would most likely choose neither side and do his/her best to lessen the pain, like putting all those healing skills to use. A good paladin (in every meaning of the word 'good') knows when not to use his fighting skills. If any thing most paladins should be trying to quell the fire of war using all those charisma and persuasion skills to use aswell.

P.S. Horrian 'paladins' are no fun . . . just because you think you're good doesn't make you good, like when they go on self-righteous genocides against trogs (monsters are people too!). If Hitler played D&D you'de have a good guess what class he would choose . . .