Ok, I know that some DM's say the DE isn't really an RP killer, but for a character trying to appear LG, it bugs me that hours of eleaberate RP to look like a good person are killed by a click of the mouse by a level 2 paladin. Pfg can be a psudo solution, but still, you get fueged, wake up, and your covers blown. So I recommend that, while non-cannon, detect evil warrants a will save. The weak minded insane half orc barbarian would, of course, be unable to appear good. But the sly lobbyist, perhaps he would stand a chance.

I would recomend the Dc for the will save be the paladins level x2 maby?

Just would make life much easier for the LE.

Against.

I still after playing evil off and on for a year now have yet to have an RP killing experience with DE. I know everyone says they have them, and I accept that, but for me, it has always led to something interesting, and some good RP.

Your cover is blown as being LG, that doesn't mean you can't still convince people to work with you when hoity-toity (sp?) paladin isn't around.

I find it can work in both ways.

My formerly CN character was hit with a hefty shift, and became evil, after makign friends with a paladin.

Some overzealous paladins will just so "Wolol No" and leave.

Others you can talk to, tell them why you are evil, and RP it. Work towards the greater good with the paladin. Work for your redemption, back to the path of good.

It can be a rewarding experience, you just need to try. Sometimes itworks, Sometimes it doesnt.

This suggestion hit the floor hard, so I dont think I'm going to waste much breath keeping it there.

However, I have vastly appreciated the majority of experiences I've had with paladins while Evil. The only thing that has ever rubbed me the wrong way was to feel ICly and OOCly like you got smacked in the face with a edged wall when you pass the paladin on the street. I prefer a bit of actual conflict rather then instant degrading. Though being called evil is easy enough to work with ICly. I was always surprised at how little it effected other peoples opinions. (In My Case)

I much prefer being labeled evil, then harassed and insulted. <_>

Considering that DE can be spammed a million times in a second, I would think that you'd eventually fail your will save.

A will save would be rather cool. A better solution that I like far more is making it a requirement that the paladin holds a holy symbol of his deity up high, and beseeches his god outloud to reveal all forms of corruption in the area to him.

Caster13 Considering that DE can be spammed a million times in a second, I would think that you'd eventually fail your will save.

I think a better solution would be to make items that disguise alignment more common and well known. I believe, perhaps erronously, items exist that disguise alignment (besides protection from good spells). I don't OOCly know what these items are or how one finds them.

My biggest gripe with Protection from Good charges is that everyone on the same screen reads "So and So drinks a Protection from Good potion!" I'd rather the more anonymous "so and so uses item's special power" be used in these instances.

Dalman is commonly seeing wandering around town hall, selling wares to whom may ask. " Potions for sale! Wands to order! Best brews, finest wands, fairest prices! Wards? Yes sir, i do make those." He lowers his voice as a quiet dark clad hobbit whispers something to him "Yes, i make BOTH of them. The second one is just a little more costly." *coughs coughs* Hail Drin, how fare thee?

Intraflux I find it can work in both ways.

My formerly CN character was hit with a hefty shift, and became evil, after makign friends with a paladin.

Some overzealous paladins will just so "Wolol No" and leave.

Others you can talk to, tell them why you are evil, and RP it. Work towards the greater good with the paladin. Work for your redemption, back to the path of good.

It can be a rewarding experience, you just need to try. Sometimes itworks, Sometimes it doesnt.

The argument that paladins should/would/could help evil folks with redemption is something of a touchy subject. If you want absolution, find a priest, not the chosen warrior of a god whose duty it is to rid the world of all forms of evil in the most zealotous fashion possible.

As far as the will save goes, there already is one, but it's for the paladin. Anyone ever try to DE the Commander of the Tigereyes? Remember what the Will save DC was for him? Yeah.

Besides, some folks RP how a paladin knows someone is evil. It's not a mind spell near as I can tell. I RP it that I can see their aura, others RP it as they sense something out of place with the person, others choose yet another method.

I don't think it's a mind spell (thus requiring a Will save), but more of enhanced intuition about the hearts of folks.

Letsplayforfun .......He lowers his voice as a quiet dark clad hobbit whispers something to him "Yes, i make BOTH of them. The second one is just a little more costly." *coughs coughs* Hail Drin, how fare thee?

Cute.

I believe you already have to roll a Concentration Check (DC20) if you want to Detect Evil someone during combat. If you don't want your cover blown when you die, it's best to not work with Paladins. It's really the easiest solution and least troublesome, as long as you're willing to give up your 'spot'.

I don't think it's a mind spell (thus requiring a Will save), but more of enhanced intuition about the hearts of folks.

But it is not unheard of to make charisma based will saves, this is usually for when some ones -soul- is in trouble not his mind. And while some of the most righteous people on earth think evil thoughts from time to time, or think about acts of evil, they do not act on it. A paladin looks into some one's soul when they do this, the person's true self. So it could in that sence require a will save.

But I am against DE will saves any way.

djspectre

The argument that paladins should/would/could help evil folks with redemption is something of a touchy subject. If you want absolution, find a priest, not the chosen warrior of a god whose duty it is to rid the world of all forms of evil in the most zealotous fashion possible.

Which is to redeem them.

Pick up Exalted Deeds, the guide to playing a zealous good guy.

It clearly explains paladins are not low wisdom warriors who believe the best solution to fighting evil is to run a sword through it.

A truly wise warrior learns to recruit his enemies into becoming his allies, and through that agenda, a paladin redeems evil mortals.

Let's make this like math.

Killing evil means, evil loses one mortal minion. Evil though gains one evil soul, which is used as currency, weapons, or soldiers in the Lower Planes.

This means 1-1+1=1. Evil has not actually lost much of anything.

Redeeming evil means evil loses one, gains nothing, and good gains one; which is in fact a subtraction for evil tipping the balance to good.

Evil 1-1-1=-1

By George! It doth appear redeeming evil makes more sense. Paladins have high wisdom. This will make sense to them too.