I am asking for advice. I have a character who I am very attached to, but I really have trouble getting anywhere. I am a ranger with low strength (12) high dexterity (17 if i remember right) and high intelligence (14) and wisdom (13). I made up the character as my first here, not having any clue how very hard it is to achieve levels over 6 unless maximizing My quandary is that I made the character's abilities mainly with RP in mind. I always try to do this. (She has average charisma, which I think of in terms of being physically attractive -isnt that very subjective anyway? - but having zero leadership skills) So in terms of what is known as 'build', I've been told that Morwen is kind of a disaster. A DM said I'd be a good skirmisher type-sneaking and shooting. We did agree that the NWN game as such is hard on such characters because the AI has the monsters always go after anyone with a bow, or casting spells as a first priority (despite the fact that archers really don't do all that much damage compared to, say the guy with the big honkin' sword who's bashing the monsters brains in even as they charge after the archers - talk about a AI exploit in the making...) Beyond this, I've found that the players who are the fighter types building these questing groups tend to not want to spread the loot around to a lot of archer characters because they are almost useless in a standup fight.

So- should I use my intelligence to be a Ranger/Wizard? A ranger level 3 and wizard level 3 seems like the worst of all worlds- not sneaky enough, and not able to cast the good spells. I dare not dream of being higher than level 6....maybe someday.

Any thoughts on anyone else's experience are appreciated. My D&D experience stopped in 1983 with the original game and then started back up again with NWN, so the gears really grind when it comes to all the arcana of building characters - you used to roll a bunch of dice and play what you got stuck with.

Sorry for being so wordy.

You should multiclass if it makes sense for your character, otherwise not. Attaining high levels in NWN is probably at least half as much understanding (and being good at using) the engine as it is having a powerful build. It also is not a necessity to enjoy the game. Chances are you aren't playing to your character's strengths -- or maybe more importantly, making up for its shortcomings. Potions of blur are as useful for archers as they are for frontliners; if you have a bow with the Mighty property, make sure to take advantage of it; and a higher AB is always desirable.

I don't think you should look at that 14 Intelligence as "wasted" if you don't multiclass to wizard. Intelligence actually does a lot for a ranger. It gives you two additional skillpoints per level (which rangers really need) and allows you to better see traps.

Ranger is one of those inbetween classes that aren't essential to any group and are kind of useful in many situations, but not super useful in any.

What a pure ranger can do without equal is sneak about the wilds, and attack their favored enemy. Eventually if you stick with the class you get the Camoflouge spell which really boosts your Hide, as well as some custom Efu stuff like increased movement and increased Spot/Listen. There is also a great deal of ranger-only loot that from my perspective, drops very frequently.

I don't think a pure Ranger is a bad way to go in any way. I also don't think you will get turned away from quests due to lack of mechanical usefulness, many people use other criteria than that.

As far as surviveability goes, you just have to work with what you have and learn to not enter situations the character couldn't handle.

You can take a rogue level or two to have those sneak attacks.

You can take rapid shot to have an extra attack per round, which will essentially give you a decent damage output/round if you hit.

If I see another ranger/rogue build I will scream, don't you know if you play your ranger well enough the DM's might give you Sneak attack loot?

Thomas, they also may not. You can't build a character based on what you hope the DM's will give your character as loot. In all my time on this server, I've received three items of DM loot. Three.

That's fine, as I don't often play when there are DM's about or DM quests to participate in but the point remains - build and level your character the way you want to. Base it on the character's personality, history, IG events, whatever, but make it true to the character and you can't go wrong.

lazycat_1984 (She has average charisma, which I think of in terms of being physically attractive -isnt that very subjective anyway? - but having zero leadership skills)

Of course, when have we not seen an average CHA female non-half orc, non-dwarf, non-gnome character played that way? ; )

You basically described Jaden's build to a "T." I went pure ranger, and the depressing fact is that there isn't much difference between a level 6 ranger and a level 8 ranger. Dex-based rangers just aren't a particularly powerful class.

What's more, the only time a ranger is truly useful in a party is when the party is completely outmatched. Then it's nice to have someone who can give you some indication of what's around the corner, but that's not anything a rogue or a bard couldn't do nearly as well.

Just about the only thing a DEX-based ranger can beat every other class on is stealth, and only in the wilderness. And for that to make a difference, you must either be alone or with other rangers.

Face it, you've got a gimped character. Just have fun with it.

Level 8 ranger is -major- if you have 14 wisdom, you get cats grace or one with land, making you insanely sneaky or have great AB.

lazycat, your build for questing shouldn't matter too much. You can do some awesome stuff if you want to just explore the Underdark and not get caught. Try meeting up with other rangers and just going around the wilds, snooping. The return of DM-free DM quests will probably also be a boon to the ranger class. Although again, you need to just convince people to come with you. Sneaking may not be all that useful on most quests, but it's incredibly useful to any party running around in the Underdark outside Sanctuary. You can scout the least dangerous path and keep people from getting eaten by Deep Lizards and Spiders and that sort of thing.

If you're elven, or if they'll take you anyway, try falling in with the Sentinels. They seem like a really cool faction from my limited interactions with them. Unfortunately, I think they're all a little "tied up" at the moment, but they should be back soon.

Just play whatever best reflects your character and don't worry about OOC optimization, as it is considerably more banal than playing an interesting character.

Decidedly so, Mister Pakt.

Try to remember as well that while Charisma can seem to be one of the more nebulous traits, it is relatively easy to summarise. So, while things like leadership ability and physical appearance are covered by this trait, we can simplify it further.

Charisma represents a character's ability to engender the sort of responses they would like from others, be they positive or negative.

Morwen is endearing just the way she is.

I have not seen this particular strength of rangers on EfU, but here it goes: Divine Wands. Divine Wands, I should think, give Rangers in EfU a really good boost that they really need. With a wand of cure serious wounds, you can support most party members against strong foes, and you'll always be regarded as essential - if the wands cost too much, don't be afraid to charge for them! You did, after all, save peoples' lives.

Also, wands are a great help in PVP situations. A wand of hold person or invisibility does great things for you!

Face it, you've got a gimped character. Just have fun with it.

I've kind of come to this conclusion as well, and I am. Thanks to everyone, especially Howland for his pep-talk.

As long as a character has something interesting to so say, or is remotely unique in any way, I will always keep that person near my PC just for the conversation. I don't really care about how useful the PC is at all in combat, honestly. Just my two cents though.

Now, to eat a delicious cheeseburger.

As someone who plays a Pure ranger i can safely say that they can be one of the best classes if used correctly. Good attack bonus decent number of Hp, spells, Divine wands, Animal companions the list goes on.

One thing I haven't really heavilly seen addressed in this thread (Metro comes closest) is what is your CHARACTER build. Lazycat gives us stats and levels, but nothing about what makes sense for the character.

My own ranger/rogue comes close to the "build" you are talking about (15 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Wis, 12 INT). I've played him since I first came onto EFU and he's still going. I built from concept and let the skills choose themselves as a result: I wanted a dwarven tunnel rat - someone whose role in the clan was to ferret out vermin and little goblin kobolds in mine tunnels and exterminate them - sort of like a rat assassin. As a result, I took some skill and feat selections I never otherwise would have (favored enemy:vermin, blindfighting, etc.). Similarly, I figured someone who chose that sort of life would have been somewhat antisocial (low Cha) - and Baltazar is about as abrasive as they come to this day, ruining many questing opportunities from his habits and behaviors and intolerance of politics, too much talking, and so forth.

I did not picture the long term "build" at all with him, other than to think his penchant for short weapons (great in tunnels) would mean that rather than bow, knives (darts) would make a better missile weapon and that he would eschew the stereotyped dwarf axes and hammers for short swords. The closest I got to thinking ahead was going a level at a time and considering what experiences he had had since last level that would makes sense to reflect in his next feat or skill choice. This has truly made him evolve over time and really come alive in my own mind (and made me change some of his feat/skill choices as he's lost/gained back levels after dying).

In original play, I thought he would be fairly weak - Str too low to frontline, no armor above leathers, low damage weapons (darts and short swords for crying out loud!) and would sort of be a flavor character with a short life. Boy was I wrong. Every party he joined assumed that because he was dwarven, he was a front liner - apparently no one paid attention to the light armor and weapons. Most of the time, he wouldn't do it, preferring to snipe with throwing knives from a distance. But, from time to time, as he saw people he considered friends in peril, those swords would come out and he'd charge in, and he/we made a discovery - he held his own rather well in the right situation. Toe to toe, he'd get creamed with all attacks focusing on him, but as a support frontliner (is that a new category???) he kicked arse, striking for extra damage with sneak attack, dodging blows with tumbles from combatant to combatant, and having enough HP (if not AC) to last in a fight. As a sneaker, he was good enough to range far and wide through the underdark, solo (esp. when he had camoflage), and never be seen but maybe 1 in 5 goes. This was enough to bring him to 9th level for a while and keep him alive on some pretty hairy quests, although a series of unfortunate events and changes in my play time has kept him at 6-7th for months now.

My point is this - don't let the "build" bog you down. If you build to character first and stats later, some amazing things can happen. Morwen's problem may very well not be the build, but the lack of character in her very beginnings. From others' comments, it sounds as if she's got some life and character NOW, but it also sounds as if a lack of thinking at the outset is causing her player some troubles NOW. Finally, with that said, some character builds are doomed to fail - they are too gimped to survive long term in the harsh underdark, too weird to interact with, or have severe faults. That's okay - some real people are like that too, and they don't last long either! (Anyone remember a character whose name was some number tatooed on his chest, like an experiment number or something??? He didn't last long, but sure added some flavor while I saw him stumbling around upper.)

Good luck and good gaming.

That's kind of what I was getting at. I've been playing my gimped build for months now. It's the character, not the build, that keeps me playing.

Although I do wish I'd taken more charisma.

Charisma is so good.