We already have over 50 quests in the game. However, we are always looking for places to improve.

I'd like to throw out two questions here. You can answer one or both.

1) Do you have any ideas for new quests, and how would they be different from current quests?

2) Do you have things you feel you would change to improve any current quests? (Please be specific about which quest each idea goes to.)

I havent been on very much of the quests so I cant comment on what's already implemented, but theres a few things that always make things good. I'm going to make general comments here not in reference to any particular quest.

1) More quests for larger party ranges that are scalable (like the temple of hoar quest) A lot of people spend a lot of time in the level 3-6 range so a few more quests in that EXACT range would help. Quests that REQUIRE a particular class/classes to be done effectively are already out there but even more of those would help make particular classes shine at particular times.

2) a) Using player skills - Having props(interactiables) that you can interact with that then you USE your skills, that allow people to possible bypass combat and make their quest slightly easier. (a magic device to tinker with , with your lore or magic device usage skill, open lock could be expanded to a tinker with mechanical device skill etc)

b) Randomness, since quests DO get repeated it's always good to have unpredictable things in there. When the area RESETS, it could for example have traps that have a 50% chance of appearing so people dont know if a trap is here or not. They really do have to look. Chests could be there or not.. Some unusual spawns might appear at some low chance at a particular spot. A door may be locked when it is normally open (as long as this doesnt block the quest advancement and only leads to either a shortcut or more loot)

c) Dont be afraid of putting traps in (even higher level dungeons) that have a LOW DC to disarm.. some characters are multiclass and this will give them something to do (even if the mono rogue can do them all anyway) You may have a party with no mono rogue, and only a part rogue in a high level quest. So it's always good to put something there that they can actually do.

p.s. In time when i've played more of the content i'll probably have ideas about what else can be done.

One idea that has always been particularly attractive to me, is the chance a party might have to do a quest entirely on stealth. Say, infiltrate the unholy cave-temple of some Loviatar cultists, and, instead of taking on every enemy in the quest, stealthing all the way to the High Priestess' room, and assassinating her.

The downside, being, obviously, that it doesn't give the same XP/loot/gold as you would get from killing every monster.

But, I'd be really excited if the DM team could come up with a quest where you -have- to go into a certain compound/building/cave, assassinate a certain NPC, and leave without being noticed.

It seems to be a different way of approaching combat-based quests. I have, however, no idea of what scripting that kind of a thing would require, so this is just the rawest idea, thrown out there for the sake of brainstorming.

- Kiaring

How about a hold the fort quest? Bad guys could come in waves, and perhaps the success of the previous wave could determine the make-up of the next. And perhaps each wave could represent a new type of challenge - ranged, melee, arcane - suited for the strengths and weaknesses of the party. There are those new siege weapons that have been scripted, it'd be neat to see them put to good use. Players could be given a limited amount of ammunition and they would have to conserve and decide wisely when to use it.

I'm sure there's lots of interesting ways you could beat that quest.

Lemme know what you think.

I would like to see a quest or two where you could solve a problem to be able to enter/move forward/end the quest. Even though I know I myself suck at such, it still would be something different than the normal kill all the monsters quest. Maybe make at least some of the loot such, that it would reguire some thinking to get.

Also I agree about the quests where you can talk your way out, and I do like Kiaring's proposal very much too.

What comes to those already existing quests, I haven't done so many I could have any suggestions of improvement or change at this point.

I'd like to see some quests that vary greatly depending upon something you do early on. For instance, killing every guard on the way to a target slowly would alert the target, and they would try to escape. Or perhaps a quest where your actions determine if a bridge or tunnel opening is destroyed or not, which would alter the rest of the quest in terms of how you would escape, if you get flanked, if you are discovered, if you lose valuable resources, etc.

I'd like to see bosses more randomized on current qeusts. Maybe one day your on orog fort and the boss is a weaponsmaster, maybe tommorow he's a rogue and then the next day he's a high level wizard etcetera. This could make things interesting on alot of qeusts currently out there.

chaosprism I havent been on very much of the quests so I cant comment on what's already implemented, but theres a few things that always make things good. I'm going to make general comments here not in reference to any particular quest.

Thanks for giving feedback.

1) More quests for larger party ranges that are scalable (like the temple of hoar quest) A lot of people spend a lot of time in the level 3-6 range so a few more quests in that EXACT range would help. Quests that REQUIRE a particular class/classes to be done effectively are already out there but even more of those would help make particular classes shine at particular times.

I count about 10-12 quests currently covering that range. About half of those never get done anymore.

2) a) Using player skills - Having props(interactiables) that you can interact with that then you USE your skills, that allow people to possible bypass combat and make their quest slightly easier. (a magic device to tinker with , with your lore or magic device usage skill, open lock could be expanded to a tinker with mechanical device skill etc)

You may have noticed some checks coming into play a bit more, both inside and outside of quests. This is something we are working on. The code exists. It's just a matter of figuring out where to do this in a balanced manner.

b) Randomness, since quests DO get repeated it's always good to have unpredictable things in there. When the area RESETS, it could for example have traps that have a 50% chance of appearing so people dont know if a trap is here or not. They really do have to look. Chests could be there or not.. Some unusual spawns might appear at some low chance at a particular spot. A door may be locked when it is normally open (as long as this doesnt block the quest advancement and only leads to either a shortcut or more loot)

Randomness is A LOT of work. We need to write a ton of background code in order to make traps work like you said. HOWEVER, once patch 1.67 is out, we will be doing just that. As far as doors randomly unlocking, and strange spawns, there are quests that already do that. There are also quests that are different based on whether you find secret doors to get to "bonus" parts. Expect to see more of this as quests get redone, but it does take some time to add that kind of thing.

c) Dont be afraid of putting traps in (even higher level dungeons) that have a LOW DC to disarm.. some characters are multiclass and this will give them something to do (even if the mono rogue can do them all anyway) You may have a party with no mono rogue, and only a part rogue in a high level quest. So it's always good to put something there that they can actually do.

We'll be doing more with traps after 1.67. Problem now is that traps don't reset. So if one party does the quest and disarms the traps, every other party until reset gets an easy time of it.

p.s. In time when i've played more of the content i'll probably have ideas about what else can be done.

Thanks again for the feedback. I can tell you there is one quest that fits almost everything you asked for here, but trying to get anyone to try it has been like pulling teeth.

Kiaring One idea that has always been particularly attractive to me, is the chance a party might have to do a quest entirely on stealth. Say, infiltrate the unholy cave-temple of some Loviatar cultists, and, instead of taking on every enemy in the quest, stealthing all the way to the High Priestess' room, and assassinating her.

The downside, being, obviously, that it doesn't give the same XP/loot/gold as you would get from killing every monster.

But, I'd be really excited if the DM team could come up with a quest where you -have- to go into a certain compound/building/cave, assassinate a certain NPC, and leave without being noticed.

It seems to be a different way of approaching combat-based quests. I have, however, no idea of what scripting that kind of a thing would require, so this is just the rawest idea, thrown out there for the sake of brainstorming.

- Kiaring

Problem with this is that people just invis, run through it, and then there is not much to the quest. People already do it in areas where we want it to be hard to get to. They go invis, go steal loot, and run off. I'd expect much of the same in this case.

Naga I'd like to see bosses more randomized on current qeusts. Maybe one day your on orog fort and the boss is a weaponsmaster, maybe tommorow he's a rogue and then the next day he's a high level wizard etcetera. This could make things interesting on alot of qeusts currently out there.

That one might not be that hard for us to do other than costing us in terms of blueprints. I like this even better when we get to change names on enemies (after 1.67).

I recurring theme here is puzzles/non-combat.

Here is the issue I have with those as recurring quests. Once it's been solved, the quest becomes very lame, as OOC knowledge just kills the quest. Once you know invis gets you through all of it, and you just need to avoid the dispel trap, as stealth quest loses it's challenge. Once you know the riddle of the sphinx, the next time, the quest doesn't really do much for you except give free loot and xp.

That's why those types of quests really do better as DM quests than scripted quests. As it stands, you can already stealth through most quests and just kill the boss at the end.

A very valid point. In another server I've played in, ran without NPC Quests -at all-, DMs did all the sphnix quizzes with questions THEY invented... and let me tell you - that went VERY well.

Simple quests should remain simple. In my opinion, they're just a leverage tool to be enough of a level to get into major events in the world, done (hopefully) mostly by DMs. Kiaring's stealth quests are an interesting idea, though.

Being a relative newcomer and in a problem time zone, I've had little exposure to quests as well (I've probably only seen half a dozen different quests in the couple of weeks I've been hanging around, and there's only so many bats, rats and glowing lights you can kill, lol). There's usually not too many players about, and finding a party can be difficult.

I had no idea so many scripted quests already existed, which makes it harder to suggest changes or improvements as I don't know what's already been done. Having said that, I like to see quests that aren't straight kill and dash for the end types. Little twists in the plot or flow, puzzles, etc in the adventure make all the difference to me, but I understand this is not easy to do in scripted quests.

I really need to find a way to get online during the more interesting periods... <g>

I have two suggestions on what I'd like to see more of in quests in general.

1. More options to use social skills when confronted with NPCs in the course of quests. Gatekeepers that can be bluffed into opening doors for you, minions who can be intimidated into telling you the secret password, captured prisoners who can be persuaded to guide you to the tyrant's bed chambers, etc. Ideally, I think every quest should have one potential use for each of the social skills. A few already have a use for persuade, in the questgiver's reward convo.

2. One alternate approach to doing each quest, focusing on the "opposing alignment" that the quest seems oriented to. Most of them are interesting to Lawful or Good, so a Chaotic or Evil alternative would be nice - and perhaps spark some interesting confict in parties trying to decide wether to attack all the hordes of desperate bandits in the name of Trom, or try to arrange a "peaceful" meeting with their leader under false pretenses, and stab him in the back.

Just my two cents. :P

Edit: I'm going to expand some on 2, after some discussion on IRC. I think that not only should each quest have two seperate completion methods, each one catering to two of the various alignment extremes, but the completion dialogues should also be split.

In other words, if you choose the L-G method of doing the quest, the completion dialogue which nets you the xp would let you choose so that you receive 1-5 points of either lawful or good alignment. Conversely, if you choose a nasty or chaotic way of finishing the quest, your choices will let you pick evil or chaos points.

One thing that this would help with is the much-discussed "paladins questing with evil" phenomenon. If they quest with evil people, these people will choose the evil methods of completing quests, and will drag the paladin's alignment down over time. On the other hand, if the paladin can continuously convince them to act more honorably, over time they may be able to actually redeem people.

Some of the flaws I can think of are that you could see-saw quest completion methods so that by going back and forth, everyone's alignment stays the same.

An effective way to counter that would be to vary the alignment shift based on how much you have. Characters closer to opposed ends would receive more of a shift than other characters - so an evil person who eats a baby might get 1 evil point. A neutral person might get 3 evil points, and a good person who eats a baby would get 5+ evil points.

Thrawn

1) Do you have any ideas for new quests, and how would they be different from current quests?

Since death normally pulls people back into the level 2-6 range I'd say that that area is where the variety needs to be.

As for areas.. theres a LOT of buildings in OLD dunwarren that could be made "visitable".

One quest could be trying to find something that's been randomly placed in one of the buildings, with a few challenges along the way in various buildings, that when overcome may give you clues on where to search next.

Since quests do get repeated randomly located targets and solutions allow some enhanced enjoyability of them.

Not knowing what you'll find is always preferable to "veterans" metagaming the exact dangers, if they're unknown then they cant prepare in a metagame way for it. (except in a general way)

As for specific ideas, theres a number of deities that could be enhanced on.

2) The shrine of ibrandul (which we all know whats happened to that) could have some sort of LEGACY quest where you go down under it.

3) Not sure if you have derro's anywhere , but derro's (which in this server could be level 1 assassin , level X whatever (often sorceror - called derro savants). I'd use halfling or gnome bodies to emulate them , since they're so WARPED from the original dwarf race as to almost not be recognisable. Diirinka is the main deity of them, and Diinkarazan is the mad god imprisoned in the abyss (ilsenine the flayer god did that to him). They're a scary feral lot which are basically all completely insane. (and almost incurably)

Thrawn I recurring theme here is puzzles/non-combat.

Here is the issue I have with those as recurring quests. Once it's been solved, the quest becomes very lame, as OOC knowledge just kills the quest. Once you know invis gets you through all of it, and you just need to avoid the dispel trap, as stealth quest loses it's challenge. Once you know the riddle of the sphinx, the next time, the quest doesn't really do much for you except give free loot and xp.

That's why those types of quests really do better as DM quests than scripted quests. As it stands, you can already stealth through most quests and just kill the boss at the end.

Make the quest a one shot deal.

With a riddle quest, you then include a list of 10-20 unique riddles. It'll be different most of the time even if you take a new character.

For the puzzle one, make 3-5 puzzles. Then even if you redo it with a few characters, you come across a different puzzle each time. This is especially fun if you change the puzzle just enough so that if you tried what worked the first time, without paying attention--it zaps you.

Kiaring One idea that has always been particularly attractive to me, is the chance a party might have to do a quest entirely on stealth. Say, infiltrate the unholy cave-temple of some Loviatar cultists, and, instead of taking on every enemy in the quest, stealthing all the way to the High Priestess' room, and assassinating her.

The downside, being, obviously, that it doesn't give the same XP/loot/gold as you would get from killing every monster.

But, I'd be really excited if the DM team could come up with a quest where you -have- to go into a certain compound/building/cave, assassinate a certain NPC, and leave without being noticed.

It seems to be a different way of approaching combat-based quests. I have, however, no idea of what scripting that kind of a thing would require, so this is just the rawest idea, thrown out there for the sake of brainstorming.

- Kiaring

The quest could be set so that every person killed counted negatively against the final XP reward on the quest, so that if you take out more than a few guards, you wind up with no XP reward past what you got for the kills (if that), which in my experiences so far, is usually less than a quest's final pay out.

And regarding Invis potions and spells, that is a nuisance issue for me (being a sneak): Invisibility does not allow silent movement. What guard in his right mind would stand around like a twit as the sound of a lumbering Warrior goes chugging by them? And as sneaky as most mages may consider themselves, I doubt many could creep with the silent step required to evade a drow guards sharp ears.

I do not know if the script language is robust enough to work around these issues, but if there was some way to cause invisibility to fail in an area (transitions or traps that cancel invisibility?), or simply force a skill check against move silently to avoid detection?

Well this engine doesnt allow you to swing in mid air, nor does it have targets going to where they last heard a sound and swing (they usually just aim directly at you)

MrGrendel

2. One alternate approach to doing each quest, focusing on the "opposing alignment" that the quest seems oriented to. Most of them are interesting to Lawful or Good, so a Chaotic or Evil alternative would be nice - and perhaps spark some interesting confict in parties trying to decide wether to attack all the hordes of desperate bandits in the name of Trom, or try to arrange a "peaceful" meeting with their leader under false pretenses, and stab him in the back.

We currently have 0 quests that require you to be lawful or good. However, we have a number that disallow good characters, due to the nature of the quest. All depends on what quests you choose. (For example, I don't think many paladins will go steal bodies.)

MrGrendel

Edit: I'm going to expand some on 2, after some discussion on IRC. I think that not only should each quest have two seperate completion methods, each one catering to two of the various alignment extremes, but the completion dialogues should also be split.

In other words, if you choose the L-G method of doing the quest, the completion dialogue which nets you the xp would let you choose so that you receive 1-5 points of either lawful or good alignment. Conversely, if you choose a nasty or chaotic way of finishing the quest, your choices will let you pick evil or chaos points.

One thing that this would help with is the much-discussed "paladins questing with evil" phenomenon. If they quest with evil people, these people will choose the evil methods of completing quests, and will drag the paladin's alignment down over time. On the other hand, if the paladin can continuously convince them to act more honorably, over time they may be able to actually redeem people.

Some of the flaws I can think of are that you could see-saw quest completion methods so that by going back and forth, everyone's alignment stays the same.

An effective way to counter that would be to vary the alignment shift based on how much you have. Characters closer to opposed ends would receive more of a shift than other characters - so an evil person who eats a baby might get 1 evil point. A neutral person might get 3 evil points, and a good person who eats a baby would get 5+ evil points.

I'm very much opposed to scripted alignment changes. It encourages quest spammage for alignment control. We'll get paladins who will go do evil things with evil and take their -5 alignment hit, because they know they can spam a good quest to get them back. I think all the DM's are together on not having automated alignment adjustments.

Leurnid

And regarding Invis potions and spells, that is a nuisance issue for me (being a sneak): Invisibility does not allow silent movement. What guard in his right mind would stand around like a twit as the sound of a lumbering Warrior goes chugging by them? And as sneaky as most mages may consider themselves, I doubt many could creep with the silent step required to evade a drow guards sharp ears.

One using NWN AI. Writing AI is a big deal. Under the standard stuff, being seen is what matters, not being heard.

I do not know if the script language is robust enough to work around these issues, but if there was some way to cause invisibility to fail in an area (transitions or traps that cancel invisibility?), or simply force a skill check against move silently to avoid detection?

We have quests that dispel invisibility. People avoid them due to them being "too hard".

Thrawn ... We have quests that dispel invisibility. People avoid them due to them being "too hard".

I would think that such a quest would be the sort that appeals to those with innate (and advanced) sneaking capabilities... but I have yet to achieve a level that allows me to know what upper-tier quests are available, so the idea may well be redundant.

I would love these Quests if i could find them (mostly playing sneakers) As sneaking doesn't earn much. Sure you can protect yourselves from monsters, but you don't hear of twenty none sneakers a week dying out in the Underdark. The only other reason for it would be spying, and my new character is an honest sort.

This has no real point, i am not sure why i posted it after completing it... Oh well, it's relevant.

Also being a newcomer, my suggestions aren't based on things I think EfU lacks, more rather on things I think of as nifty, that I wouldn't expect to be included in EfU already from what I've seen of it. Mind you, I love EfU (:

Those multi-facet, non-combat quests sound pretty cool, but since thats already been brought up quite a bit.. How about quests geared towards unbalanced parties? Quests that are to be taken by, say, a group of arcanists? It could be pretty funny to see how a group of only arcane casters deals with a set of situations. Or even how a group of priests and paladins of mixed faiths deal with a task.

Clean the House of Light:

You're given a broom (quarterstaff) and must bash as many rubble pile placeables as you can before the place gets too crowded with commoners lining up to ask Mylin for a date. (5 minute time limit)

:P

kassan_rift Also being a newcomer, my suggestions aren't based on things I think EfU lacks, more rather on things I think of as nifty, that I wouldn't expect to be included in EfU already from what I've seen of it. Mind you, I love EfU (:

Those multi-facet, non-combat quests sound pretty cool, but since thats already been brought up quite a bit.. How about quests geared towards unbalanced parties? Quests that are to be taken by, say, a group of arcanists? It could be pretty funny to see how a group of only arcane casters deals with a set of situations. Or even how a group of priests and paladins of mixed faiths deal with a task.

I agree, theres also a facility for certain placables to activate scripts when a spell is cast at them. You could have puzzles where the answers are spells you need to cast at various things. You can also trigger scripts on damage done and then test the source of that damage to see if FIRE was done or acid etc.

You cant put too many CERTAIN class only quests in there, some characters will never see the content. It's better to follow what D&DOnline does and make certain OPTIONAL parts of quests open to certain classes/abilities/feats etc.

There is a place for quests that require certain alignment GROUPS though.. like only for LAWFUL characters, only for CHAOTIC characters, only for GOOD characters, only for EVIL characters. Thats 4 quests there you could add.

I'm also against scripted alignment modification.

At least two quests require Non-good right now.

Most quests can be done with unbalanced parties. I find taking those kind of parties and doing everyday quests puts a whole new twist on the quest. I loved doing that on other servers as a player.

Spellcasting puzzles have some of the same issues as other puzzles. Once they are solved, there is no challenge anymore, so quests of that type are difficult to write.

Not as much a suggestion to a new quest, as a plea to add a quest to Hrunpar the Mushroom farmer. Just struck me the other day how it would be nice to have.

Quests that require Stat/Skill rolls to proceed? Quests that require being Lawful or Chaotic? Quests that have several ways of being completed? (perhaps depending on the character skills?)

Anything else's just exploitable or too hard to script.

I would like to maybe see a quest where two groups compete and in the end the winner is rewarded (or at least rewarded better). Maybe see who can collect more of something, or get to a point fastest. Seems it could be healthy for some of the feuds going on down in the Underdark...

edit: Actually, I have talked it over with a few other EFU players, and I have some really neat concepts about this if you all want to hear them.

tib I would like to maybe see a quest where two groups compete and in the end the winner is rewarded (or at least rewarded better). Maybe see who can collect more of something, or get to a point fastest. Seems it could be healthy for some of the feuds going on down in the Underdark...

edit: Actually, I have talked it over with a few other EFU players, and I have some really neat concepts about this if you all want to hear them.

Hm... good point. Maybe make it one on one? I just thought it might be a fun change to have something where your real 'foe' was time and the opposing PC, rather than monster spawns. Maybe like a 'capture the flag' sort of quest where both groups would need to communicate with their teammates and also always have to counter new and changing plans from the other PC team? Maybe this is too complicated and could be explioted somehow... I donno, just throwing it out there.

After giving this matter a bit of thought, I think it might actually be a possibility. Ponder this (which I'm making up as I write it)...

Barley Halfling, resident supreme of lower Sanctuary's canal district, has at long last finished his dream project! Next to an alleyway opposite of the canal, a sign can be found, merrily denoting a point of interest:

Merry sign denoting something interesting Welcome to The Hop, Thought and Tarley Arena of competitionous extravaganza!

- Are you looking for the competition of your life?

- A struggle against time, your wits, yes, even attributes you hardly knew you possessed?

Then turn right back! Turn right back I say, and gather a group of three likeminded individuals to compete along with, as well as four spirited fellows to compete against. But choose your companions carefully, for in the game you shall be put against trials that will tickle your toes in awe, oh yes!

For more information, please talk to the owner at the end of this walkway.

---

The competition I'm imagining would be a competition in four steps, each step pitting one member of each group against another. One step could be finding your way through a maze of grease/knockdown traps (with extreme reflex save DC's to stop people from just rushing through) and ring a bell in the shortest ammount of time, another to solve a randomized problem (such as picking the right potion to drink among five, from clues, or similar), a third to defeat a creature (or a group of such) in battle, and the fourth to as quick as possible answer three questions (from a definite pool of ten or so) correctly. Or whatever kind of challenges you fancy. Each time a task is completed, a portal appears to take you to the next assignment. The winner is quite simply the first group to get out again. To keep things interesting, the tasks could be modified every week or so. Ideally, the quest areas for the two teams would be in view of eachother, separated by a fence, or so.

This would offer roleplaying opportunities for the six people that are not currently trying to solve a problem (as well as the remaining two, for the puzzles, I imagine), a quest with varied puzzles and tricky tasks, and plenty of competitive fun. It would also offer a non-lethal, not overly serious quest that is a tad more interesting than the standard fed-ex'es.

What say you?

Would be much better if it said "makes your toes curl"

I like this idea. Would require alot of maintaniance dm side though. Would they have the time is the qeustion?

Naga I like this idea. Would require alot of maintaniance dm side though. Would they have the time is the qeustion?

It likely doesn't involve more work than changing a few lines of text from a pretyped list of possible variations, and possibly editing the trap maze. Even if you only have five variations on the puzzles, it's more than a month before they get repeated.

If this is a problem, I'd be happy to help typing the various variations up, to just run them by a DM, to save time.

The diamond hunting quest is too easy and straight forward. The walls of flame do little but encouage people to just stop at the first one, you're almost always guaranteed one before the first wall. I always found the spawns too easy, and not very exciting.