Alright, now I don’t know the math behind ECL and all, but in the past weeks I have been looking over some things and have a suggestion for the Earth Gensai (ECL1) as compared to the other ECL1 races. It seems to me that the earth gensai would have a few different abilities that what he has, and thus I suggest it here for discussion on the forums. I will say in advance that I do have some motivation personally to do this, but in looking at it as objectively as I can, think it might be a valid change. Please correct my arguments if they fall short of being rational.

For comparison all the ECL1 racial abilities are listed below:

Aasimar Racial Abilities: +2 Wis, +2 Cha Special Abilities: Acid, cold and electricity resistance 5, Light once per day, +2 Bonus on Listen and Spot checks, Darkvision, Outsider, Quick to Master

Teifling Racial Abilities: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha Special Abilities: Cold, fire, electricity resistance 5, Darkness once per day, +2 bonus on Bluff and Hide checks, Darkvision, Outsider, Quick to Master

Earth Gensai Racial Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha, -2 Wis Special Abilities: Darkvision

Now the earth gensai seems balanced in +/-‘s for racial abilities and has only darkvision as an ability yet remains ECL1, while the other comparable ECL1 races have both a +2 to +4 stat bonus net gain as well as a spell like ability, +2 to 2 skills, darkvision, and 3 elemental resistances (5).

Here is what I propose and why: Give the Earth Gensai stat bonuses of +2 Str/+2 Con (earth elemental blood) and keep the -2 Cha due to they are “stubborn” and described as loners and fairly solitary. Loose the -2 wis decrease because in the description it states they are “patient…and contemplative in their decision making”. Give them acid, cold, and fire resistance of 5 due to their solid and earthy natures, leave them open to electricity due the air opposition to earth, bonus of +2 to intimidate for their appearance and strength as well as the Outsider (planetouched as the others), and Quick to Master due to human blood. This still leaves them under the rest due to their lack of a spell like ability, but makes the class much more even for an ECL1.

Lay it on me, what does everyone think.

Sorry, must not have been logged in on posting. The above post is mine.

I think they receive the weaker end of the ECL +1 races, granted, but they are still alot more powerful that Human, Half-Elves and Gnomes. Furthermore, it's not always about the visual statistics they get. As I recall, they can communicate with stone, so it gives them a major headstart, be it only roleplay-wise.

Physical stats "cost" more than mental, in canon ECL calculation. They're good mechanics-wise too, no need to be adjusted. (I think they DO get acid resistance normally though, that might need to be re-checked by anyone with a sourcebook handy)

Look at half orcs in comparison. Str is considered so powerful in the game mechanics, that it counts double. I think earth ganasi are built for powergaming as is. I would'nt want to see them with even more bonuses.

They should have a couple special abilities that are impossible to do in NWN. Pass without trace once per day, and a +1 saving throw bonus against earth spells and effects. The saving throw might be somewhat approximated with a tiny amount of damage resistance to acid maybe. As for the spell-like ability, maybe invisibility once per day?

I'm gonna side with the DMs on this one. +2 to Str and Con is VERY useful if the character is going to be in any kind of melee.

If not he can just carry a ton and dies hard. Oh well.

If they can "communicate with stone" perhaps it would be fair to give them the tracking tool by default, along with a "minimum result roll" for the skill(s) the tracking queries.

So even if their skill were 0, they would always get a roll result of 5 (or whatever), but of course if their skill surpasses the value, they get the higher bonus.

outcrowd1 They should have a couple special abilities that are impossible to do in NWN. Pass without trace once per day, and a +1 saving throw bonus against earth spells and effects. The saving throw might be somewhat approximated with a tiny amount of damage resistance to acid maybe. As for the spell-like ability, maybe invisibility once per day?

I dont think you can put less that 5/- acid onto a creature, I'd definitely think about 1/- or 2/- acid though if it were possible.

Thrawn is absolutely right about str.. it's a hugely powerful stat because melee happens so easily. It helps you hit and gives you more damage, lets you carry more too.

Pass without trace is implemented in NWN for druids by giving them the ability which gives them +4 to move and Hide in natural areas. (at least I think it is) That's why I'd say camoflague(druid spell) or even One with the land(level 2 druid spell) instead of invisibility is more balanced for the earth genasi (since invis is a duergar ability)

As for "communicating with stone" you have to ask yourself what that normally allows players to do effectively. Normally it allows them to with a d.m's help give them info on WHO or what has passed by here before, where they went.

So grendel is right it effectively gives them a tracking ability in natural underground areas.

Unless I feel like RP'ing an Earth Genasi, I'd rather play a Half-orc or Dwarf. I can get Darkvision, the same stats, and, in the case of the Dwarf, more goodies all at ECL0.

Just for the record, IG it is a -2 Int, not -2 Wis.

Half-orc get:

Str +2, -2 int, -2 Chr Darkvision

genasi do get slightly more, but compared to what the other ECL'1's get it's not much more. (it's a +2 to a stat improvment over what a half-orc gets)

I think you could quite easily give them some low powered abilities (like some druid hide enhancing spells (camoflague, one with the land (or earth in this case)) and it wouldnt be imbalanced.

It's basically a human that sacrifices Skilled, Quick to Master, Favored Class(Any) and one level for a magic item with Darkvision, +2 str, +2 con, -2 int, -2 cha, Favored Class(Figther). Not a bargain, at least not compared to the Teifling and Aasimar.

One thing that seems to be missed here, is that you should be playing an applied-for race for reasons other than being mechanicly "good."

I don't think there should be much worry put towards these races. No one will be playing one to be the "best" on EfU. In my opinion, and in all likelyhood, the character should in characterly progress in a non-ideal way (mechanics wise) anyway, which will probably overshadow these initial abilities in the end.

This was less a question of how to make it better than to my not understanding the ECL breakdown and wondering why things are different between the earth gensai and the aasimar and teifling. I really don't care one way or the other whether things get changed to improve or not, merely a question as to why the differences exist in the manner in which they do, and especially to clarify things that to me did not make sense up front. (the wis decrease that may be int decrease instead is one.)

The Beggar I really don't care one way or the other whether things get changed to improve or not, merely a question as to why the differences exist in the manner in which they do, and especially to clarify things that to me did not make sense up front. (the wis decrease that may be int decrease instead is one.)

Because of RAW, mayhaps?

On a completely unrelated note, I've been debating with a friend of mine over the pronounciation of "Genasi" - is it "Genarhsee" or is it more like "Jennapsi" (with a "psionic"-psi) - or something else?

Awesome link, that's what I've been looking for. Thanks Snoteye, as that closes the question to the reasons behind the bonuses being where they are.

You're welcome.

*Looks at the unanswered question and sighs*

I would prononce Genasi as

"Gen-Arz-eye"

but who cares, we dont hear people speaking it anyway :) type genasi and interpret it anyway you like.

It does sound a bit like a japanese word , something like samurai.