Dear DM crew. You rock, and you know that I have only the best of intentions. Thus, I pondered this as I slumbered last night, and have a little criticism that I'd like to address. Considering this is the only criticism I have for you gentlemen (and sherry), I'd say you're doing pretty damn well. I also know that this last paragraph was unneccessary for me to write, as you already knew it, but it's also for my fellow players to know where I'm coming from. With no further ado...

Over the past two years of my playing here, I can recall one instance of one of my characters having an alignment change- Genevis Ward got goodly points as he helped remove some Driders that threatened the city if you wanted to know.

Since then, I know I've done some off-alignment things with characters. Sometimes they're huge, sometimes they're subtle, but I always do something- and I'm of the opinion that all characters should, somewhat! It's what makes them dynamic. If people didn't slip towards evil, what purpose does the clergy of the goodly gods serve, or similarly, if they didn't, why do evil clergy even try to pervert men to be wicked?

What I'm trying to say is that I'd like to see more alignment shifts. The scale is 100 points, fifty towards good and fifty towards evil, lawful, chaotic. I'm asking the DMs to take a little more liberty and give and take alignment points more frequently as they see fit to help keep characters from feeling/being static! It lets us know what we're doing, and helps both the player and DM crew keep track of personality changes over time by putting it hard and fast on the character sheet.

Any other players feel differently? Or is there a reason for our DM crew being standoffish towards alignment changes?

I've had my alignment shifted slightly now and then for different actions. Usually though they appear to do it in major shifts when they feel your more X alignment.

They generally dont seem to do much with alignments of anyone but paladins in my expiriance, as no one see's them. I think they kinda take the point of "RP it, well shift it when we see it"

I've gotten a few alignment shifts here and there playing my character's. One of the most memorable was on a spiced quest. The spice went really, really badly. All of us had run out of healing, and were near or around 10 HP each. There was just no way we could successfully make it out alive.

So my character looked to the other Human in the group, took him aside, and told him to sacrifice the dwarf. My character thankfully had good persuading skills and managed to convince the kobolds to take the Dwarf in exchange for allowing us to escape.

The Dwarf attempted to protest, but we cut off his head.

I got evil and chaotic points for that. :P

Oh, and yeah - we lived.

---------

As a player if you feel your alignment needs shifting I say contact a DM. I try and notify a DM if I am going to grossly act out of my alignment, which is very rarely, but more often I keep a look out on Paladin's, Cleric's and Druids. If I see a Druid of Mycopolis doing quests for the Spellguard and bringing them machine parts, I'm going to notify a DM so that they can witness it. If I see a Paladin torturing someone, or doing something that I think grossly violates the Paladin code I want a DM to witness that as well. If I see a Cleric of Ilmater grouping up to quest with a Cleric of Loviatar I want a DM to know.

I think it really comes down to the fact that the DM's can't be everywhere at once. If I see something I think the DM's should be seeing I try and let them know. Then they can decide how things should play out.

Meldread, your story is awesome. I wish I could have been there, as the other human at least! >.>

As for the second part, I disagree with players having any influence over their own character's alignment. They should have no say about it for the same reason that there are no scripted ways to have your alignment changed.

I whole heartedly agree. Moar alignment changes plz.

You can just ask a DM for an alignment change if you do something out-of-alignment!

Alignment shifts are the rarest of all things to earn in this module. Even DM loot is more common.

However, alignment shifts are more far reaching than loot, xp or gold. I had a rogue that was teetering on the border of neutrality and evil because he'd witnessed things that were evil but failed to act to try and stop them (usually because he was alone and was scared for his life).

So sometimes INACTION can reflect on your character as well.

Most players seem to fight any shifts I give them tooth and nail. I guess this could influence why you see them so infrequently, but I do give them when I see something worthy of a shift. I guess what I am saying is, when every alignment shift becomes a 15 minute philosophical debate about the D&D alignment point system and how it relates to the action that was just done, it is one of the things I like least about DM'ing.

On this topic, I have a special interest.

I played a Paladin at one point who had been 'tainted' so to speak by an evil character...valuing his presence, et cetera, et cetera. I was hit with a -big- alignment shift.

When it comes to a Paladin, I do agree, the DMs watch them very carefully.

Now, this is not a note of whining, complaining, and thrashing around on the floor like some are prone to..it is merely a statement that the alignment shift of my Paladin(causing her to lose her Paladin status) was perhaps the greatest thing that could have happened to that character. It opened her to a new way of thinking, it opened her to a broader area of roleplay and many paths opened up because of that alignment shift.

But, my only complaint was, that when she truly was working toward good and striving to balance out what she saw as duty against her 'relationship'..and the eventually separation of sorts of said relationship. She never received any sort of boost in alignment to counteract. But, then again, it could because I didn't follow Meldread's method of thinking and flag the DMs on every occurrence that said character did something remotely goodly.

My two cents.

Word.

Edit: Moral of the story. At times it seems that the DMs are quick to lower an alignment than to raise it. -At times-.

It is easier to get Evil and Chaos points, than Law and Good. That is true.

This is because a certain amount of committment is required to get those Law and Good points. Thats just the way it is.

Ahem. You can see what I mean now folks!

I have your back, Bill Sherry.

wcsherry Most players seem to fight any shifts I give them tooth and nail. I guess this could influence why you see them so infrequently, but I do give them when I see something worthy of a shift. I guess what I am saying is, when every alignment shift becomes a 15 minute philosophical debate about the D&D alignment point system and how it relates to the action that was just done, it is one of the things I like least about DM'ing.

I was afraid that was the reason.

I have a suggestion to make it easier so that maybe you'll be more open to alignment shifts. Ask the player "Why did your character do action X? Please keep the definition down to three sentences, if you need more time to detail shoot me a PM via IRC so I can check later." If they can't suitably justify their actions as Good Bad Lawless or Lawful then lay on a little shift. I think the problem you're having might also be based in the way alignment shifts are usually done- in large amounts where you can go from alignment group to alignment group all with one action. I defend this idea that small shifts are better for two reasons:

1) People in real life are affected much more by a SERIES of events than by one enormous (or arguably impactful) event. If someone hits the red button and kills a bus full of children, yea it's going to suck but that doesn't make them all of the sudden Evil. What it MIGHT do is, if they are unrepentant either because they're apathetic or because they're trying to block it from their minds, they'll be less caring and thus more evil over time.

2) Players will be much MUCH less inclined to bitch and moan when they're losing 1-5 points at a time, as opposed to the righteous paladin going from almost perfectly good to NG or LN, as has happened a number of times before. In this case, the DMs are basically enacting the will of the gods, and it comes down to the question of "How forgiving are the gods, those that define the moral system of Toril?" Is one mistake, or perhaps one poor judgement about who to attack/defend/leave to die really going to suddenly turn someone into a cold hearted LN or a super emotional NG?

I don't think the players have any right to bitch and moan as it is, by the way. It ought to be fun to earn back alignment. But, on the other hand, I think the DMs can make redemption easier too! Just showing the inclination to WANT to be redeemed is a pretty noble thing, throw a point or two towards them when they seek out spiritual guidance! See some gnome doing a particularly good job smiting kobolds and helping others defend themselves from the wily lizards? Throw a 2 good or lawful points towards them!

By keeping it in small amounts the player doesn't feel as if he doesn't have any control over the alignment, thus lose any reason they think they have to bitch and moan.

You guys DO fight alignment shifts tooth and nail. It is incredibly annoying to deal with and is kind of ridiculous to me most of the time. For the most part I like it when players play their alignments and stick to them, behaving predictably and strongly role-playing their characters consistantly at the same time. I will argue that these characters are all fairly well developed "people" that have mostly already been formed to a specific 'alignment' through their growing up experiences and lifestyles. Radical changes just really aren't that interesting to me usually, and if you are planning on "changing" your character, I hope it's important and for a very good reason that people will see, because to the other players, nobody sees that number besides the DMs that shift it.

core You can just ask a DM for an alignment change if you do something out-of-alignment!

It's not exactly this easy. If you play a CE character and give a desperate character some gold and then ask the DM channel, "I just gave a beggar 50 gold can I have 3 good points and 1 lawful point?" you probably won't get what you are looking for.

Here's the thing,

I'll shift if I see something blatantly out of line with what your current alignment is. I probably won't touch it otherwise. Alignment shifts may be fun for you, but custom loot, quests, and storytelling is much more fun for me than debating whether or not killing the beggar was 5 points of evil or 10. Same goes for whatever else you did.

On the subject of alignment, like I said above I've had my fair share of shifts. I think I've only had one shift toward good in my entire time on the server, and almost all of them have been toward evil. (Even when I'm already evil!)

Personally, I've never complained about getting a shift. I think they are fun and it shows that a DM is watching. The only time I've run into alignment problems is with one of my priest characters. She was corrupting people, turning them blatantly evil, getting them to twist their outlook on the world, and for the life of me and the people playing the character's it was a struggle to find a DM who would give them shifts.

In most cases, a simple change of outlook was not enough. A willingness to murder was not enough. They had to actually commit a murder. So such things inevitably lead to weird and strange situations, where my character would have to find children NPC's and have them sacrifice, torture and kill them just to "prove" that they are indeed evil and have been corrupted.

This wouldn't normally be all that important, because like what was stated the only people who can tell alignments are those playing the characters and the DM's. However, it is important for Paladin's.

Although, I would totally be in favor of taking that RP-killer ability known as detect evil out of the game. That would solve that problem, but its another topic all together.

I don't really like the alignment system, to tell the truth, but it's a part of the game that we're forced to deal with in many cases.

Most of the shifts I've gotten in the past were due to my playing a paladin at the time, and I disagreed with a lot of them. I could have fought them through OOC channels and probably retained a lot of the lost points, but it wasn't worth using my free time on in order to continue playing a video game. I no longer play paladins, because my interpretation of such a character differs from the DMs who would casually glance at it from time to time. I am happier because of this.

To be fair, I had a rogue that became fairly popular during his short life quite awhile ago. He had managed to move two or three points up the Good scale before death got ahold of him, so yes, it's very possible to bounce around on the alignment scale, just highly unlikely unless you're actively getting DM attention.

And yeah, DE is a RP-killer.

I guess I maybe haven't had a bad experience with it yet but I don't get the "DE is an RP-killer". In every case I have had it used on me it has lead to conversations or taunting of the paladin, and in some cases ongoing interactions with these paladins over their ability to tell I am "tainted".

Maybe I will have the bad experience one day, but so far I have enjoyed running into paladins with evil characters.

Cant say im a big fan of De either all the times ive seen it used it dosent seem to lead to any rp at all and seems more like an excuse to stop evil charecters going on quests. (I dont mind a paladin doing it to me if he is the group leader or going on the quest but if he is just casually walking by and says you shouldent take him and him and him because they are tainted it does become rather annoying.)

I also find it out when supposed holy warriors use it as an excuse to childishly name taunt evil charecters since im sure its supposed to be for a more noble purpose than that.

Well that's not really what I was talking about in regard to Detect Evil. It really dampers things when it is used, a Paladin reveals that you are evil to his friends (who are all, naturally, good or neutral leaning good aligned). If they want to continue interacting with the Paladin they cannot interact with you, and thus it creates a division between the two factions. There is little hope for "redemption" for evil aligned characters, because the Paladin can never take part, and 99.9% of the Paladin's I have met have been afraid to even come into close proximity to an evil aligned character. They are afraid of losing their Paladinhood. There is not even a real chance to corrupt the Paladin in most cases.

It creates too many awkward situations, and is a D&D ability designed to be used against your enemies. It functions well in a traditional D&D campaign, but on a PW like EfU it doesn't work so well because the goal is player interaction.

ExileStrife You guys DO fight alignment shifts tooth and nail. It is incredibly annoying to deal with and is kind of ridiculous to me most of the time.

Your first point makes perfect sense as to why you don't want to deal with it. If I had to, I probably wouldn't either. I can understand and sympathize- but of course, that still doesn't change the fact of what I'd like to see.

ExileStrife For the most part I like it when players play their alignments and stick to them, behaving predictably and strongly role-playing their characters consistantly at the same time. I will argue that these characters are all fairly well developed "people" that have mostly already been formed to a specific 'alignment' through their growing up experiences and lifestyles.

I think it may be my misunderstanding what you're saying, but I've always been under the impression that DMs (and players!) preferred dynamic, aka non-static characters. Realistically, people do change, although it is almost never so rapidly as players might make happen IG. Of course, it's a game and we have to live our characters' lives faster than our own RL lives in order for it to be as interesting. Hence we take naps that last for only as long as the screen is dark and are willing to leap into life threatening situations on a whim! Living the fast life is part of the excitement and adventure of EfU (or an NWN PW for that matter). Should this be only limited to questing and adventuring, or should the quickened pace of living also be reflected on how characters live, affect their environment, are affected by the environment, and die?

ExileStrife Radical changes just really aren't that interesting to me usually and if you are planning on "changing" your character, I hope it's important and for a very good reason that people will see...

I don't think there's any question about that! Planning to swing one way or another is of silly and pretty much metagaming in my opinion. EfU is far too dynamic and every character's life and future is subject to be altered by their interactions with both the environment (aka DM plots) and the people of Sanctuary (PC-PC interactions). This in turn seems like an argument for the request of small alterations to alignment and against the large swings that take place currently.

ExileStrife ...because to the other players, nobody sees that number besides the DMs that shift it.

The player will and thus they can act accordingly! Additionally, it affects monks, druids, clerics, paladins, and barbarians (half of the character classes!) in being able to progress in their chosen professions or to be able to cast spells.

Detect Evil Argument Stuff.

Paladins shouldn't really be worried about changing people. That's for the clergy to do. They might help the clergy or may decide that changing a key person in their crusade against evil might be helpful, but aside from that they are holy warriors primarily that must stick to strict vows. They know and understand that this will limit their ability to combat some of the forces of evil in some regards. I don't think a paladin would ever argue that being a conniving bastard who lies, cheats, and steals (to and from evil, of course!) wouldn't be very helpful in combatting the forces of evil. But that ain't the point.

Another random point- Paladins are chosen by their gods to be their holy warriors. They damned well ought to be hard to corrupt. The gods are providing them with extraordinary powers and in return the paladins are fiercely loyal to them.

As for Detect Evil being an "RP killing tool", it is and it isn't. Realistically it does hurt the roleplaying some because it limits who can talk to who, yada yada. But it also expands the roleplaying in that the relationship, ideally, isn't necessarily removed between the paladin and the evil person, it is just drastically changed and made more limited. Ideally.

Flaming of DE and paladins will send this thread to locktown. (lolz all paladins with DE are griefing jerks IMO!!11) If you want to discuss alternatives to Detect Evil, please start a new thread for that messy, nasty business.

I have a feeling alignement shifts are more in a way of "im bored with my PC, i want to change', or 'i've made lots of friends because i'm good, but now that i'm powerful i want to PvP weaker folks'.

Alignements are there for a reason: you're supposed to stick to it, especially in a very religious context. If you slowly itch towards alignement shift, IMO you're doing something wrong. If you're not going to change, 1 or 5 points won't make a huge difference (save it's like a dm tap on the shoulder/slap, which is always interesting).

PCs we play are grown ups, and few of them should have a teenage personnality crisis. If you were already planning to have an alignement shift for some cool IC reason, i suggest you apply for it beforehand.

Or start true neutral, so this becomes less an issue. :wink:

I disagree with the sticking to alignment thing. People should stick to character's personalities first and if the alignment happens to agree with it and it should agree with it, awesome. If it doesn't, a shift would be in order. To be fair I couldn't care less about what my alignement numbers think except when it is something like CE to CN, but it is nice to see that someone's noticing your actions and it is interesting to see that the alignment agrees with the personality after a change. And some people happen to be pretty impressionable and able to change. I think watching a character grow and turn into something completely unexpected is one of the most fun aspects of RPing, but well that's just me. All and all it isn't a big issue. It's something I really like to see, but not terribly necessarily and it certainly isn't worth arguing over ( a shift, I mean).

To me alignment shifts become as clunky as Ainekin (sp?) Skywalker going from fighting beside Jedi's to killing small children in the span of a few minutes, it just does not transition well. It is true a person may change as the grow older and experience more, but only rarely do a person's core beliefs change.

If you thought killing small furry kittens was bad at 12 years old, you will probably feel the same way at 32 years old (unless on a rare chance one of those small furry kittens slaughtered your whole family...again, highly unlikely). Alignment is not supposed to be a measure of how you are feeling today, but rather what your deep-seeded beliefs are. This should be considered at character creation. I have played a NE characterson EFU off and on, but no one would know he is evil (except for Paladins), because outwardly he is a rather nice guy. However, if push came to shove his only real priority is himself ;)

That is why, in my opinion, alignment shifts should be done slowly (1-4 points), unless on that rare occassion a Paladin or some other Lawful Good fighter just can't take that whiny wizard anymore and sticks a blade through his ribs...then I think a major shift would be in order ;)

Thus ends my rant for today... -Kalos

I wish alignment shifts simply weren't a part of the game, personally. I've never had a single alignment shift I fully agreed with, and every time I get one I have to resist the urge to sit there and debate it. It's nice to know that the DMs find them to be just as much of a headache as I do.

By way of finding a solution to this tangled mess, I thought it might behoove me to begin keeping journals for my characters, where I could include information about important events in the character's life that would be relevant to an alignment shift. I certainly wish I had kept logs of some of these events!

Is this a viable solution, or does even the thought of delving deeper into the alignment morass cause you DMs out there to reach for the aspirin?

Sounds like alignment shifts should be more application than involuntary, then all of the troubles associated are moot.

That would prevent the abuse associated with allowing your bard to turn into a paladin, or a paladin living in Mycopolis and wearing a loincloth to take some barbarian levels.

PlayerCharacter I wish alignment shifts simply weren't a part of the game, personally. I've never had a single alignment shift I fully agreed with, and every time I get one I have to resist the urge to sit there and debate it. It's nice to know that the DMs find them to be just as much of a headache as I do.

You're not alone in this, but why does this happen, why are alignment shifts frustrating? Is it because you don't want your character to change? That's understandable, not many want to take the time to write up goals and such for a goodly character and end up having to do something else because suddenly reopening the orphanage when you're CE doesn't make sense. Others might find it a fascinating life change.

But again, would you be frustrated if you were only given a very small change in alignment? From your tone, it seems that the change was very significant, which is why it was annoying.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse because the conversation keeps deviating from the point- that being the question of would small changes be better. On the player's side, this is all I've been hearing- as players, alignment changes are a pain in the ass when they're big enough to make an immediate difference. On the DM side of it, it's really frustrating to deal with the bitching and moaning, but what is the cause of it? Does it only come with the big changes, or do people fight the small, near-insignificant changes too?

People fight every change.

As someone who has played 3 paladins and a couple of rogues who've lived on the border between light and dark, I can say that alignment shifts are a welcome thing for me.

Even when I would get knocked chaotic for questing with evil people as a paladin, it was what I deserved. I was breaking how a paladin should be.

As far as fighting them tooth and nail, that is usually because players know they can't just easily get those alignment points back like XP or gold. It's totally out of their hands. Perhaps this could be aleviated by one time only tasks. Similar to quests that can only be done once per character ever. These quests give small alignment shifts but that's it.

I also understand the DM's plight about how the OOC discussions from those who fight the changes can really turn them off to handing them out. The players need to better understand their CHARACTERand the motives behind them - NOT OUR motives behind them.

When you create a character on this server, you are no longer Tony from Seattle playing EfU, you are Leon Belmont, Paladin of Lathander and thus you must put yourself in his strict, stuffy persona and abide by that persona. If you break away from that, then you will get zinged.

Also, to counter the thought that you can't get a DM's attention for something that generates an alignment shift, you can as I've done it.

You have to either wait for them to arrive in person or have documentation in the form of logs, screen shots or other means to prove that you in fact performed the act that would generate a shift.

Also keep in mind that if you are say Lawful Good you start off at 85 Lawful and 85 Good. This means that you, over your life, have made mistakes, but by and large are Lawful and Good. You'd have to do something VERY lawful or VERY good to get a shift in that direction since alignment, as far as I can tell, works along the lines of a curve of diminishing returns. Meaning that the closer you get to absolute lawful, or absolute good, the harder it is to get those points and the more you have to do in order to shift that way.

I mean if you obey the laws of a town, you are lawful, but how do you prove you are MORE lawful than the guy standing next to you? Well you have to do something extraordinarily lawful. Such would be turning in your close friend for breaking the law. That would be above and beyond what a typical 85 point Lawful person would do. (though you'd likely lose your friend, you did the lawful thing in the process).

The same goes for being evil, if you are 85 points evil you're going to have to do something REALLY henious. So if you are a murderer, you'd have to murder someone in a very vicious, painful way. Such as torturing them to death. Maybe feeding them their own entrails while they are still alive and emoting that you are truly enjoying doing this to them would push you all the way to 100 points evil. You get the point.

DM's, as one mentioned earlier, enjoy creating new items or creating quests with interesting story tie-ins more than debating the finer points of neutrality vs chaos vs good. Alignment topics are like talking politics IRL - everyone has an opinion and they're all different!

I mean, if you get an alignment shift you argue about it, but do you argue about how much DM xp you get after a quest? Or whether the DM gave you only 7 healing potions when you have 8 party members?

Honestly, just accept that if you don't role play your character to the stereo typical nature of the class and handbook description of each alignment, then you're likely to get a shift.

I really have to disagree with people who say once you pick an alignment you have to stick to it, forever, no matter what. If that is the case, it more or less screws over every cleric on the server. Do you know how hard it is to gain new worshipers for Shar? It ain't easy. Yet, I've managed to convert CG people to CN/CE through intense re-education and brainwashing over the course of WEEKS of role-play.

Sometimes when I play evil character's I really wish some of those good aligned priests would try and "save" and "redeem" them. Yet, to date I have not found a single good aligned priest willing to make the attempt. More often than not, every single good aligned priest I've run into who finds out one of my character's is evil is either smite happy, wishes nothing to do with my PC or simply doesn't care.

On the flip side of the coin, I really wish more good-aligned characters (in particular Paladin's!) made themselves prone to being corrupted toward neutral / evil.

The only problem I have with alignment shifts is that usually, the act deserving the shift is a "spur of the moment" thing, making it highly unlikely that it will be noticed. As far as whining about it, well, what a waste of time that is. If you get slapped with an unwanted shift, remember why so you don't repeat the same mistake again.

I can't believe that was Melread that sacrificed a dwarf to me.

In a simple form:

Can be the alignment shifts due "InGameActs" PC, not only by DooMs spice or judge ?

For sake, any quest must cause a little alignment shift, or have inside something to do that can cause it, maybe some interaction with NPCs (not only in quests), can do too.

I known how difficult is balance that but I think is more "independent" from DooMs

[]s tooh

There will not be scripted alignment changes. They are are abusable. If you have committed an act you feel warrants an alignment shift, but no DM was available to supervise at the time, feel free to contact us either via email or PMs (here or in IRC) and explain the situation (but please don't do this if your lawful fighter told a little lie -- make sure it is actually warranted).

And you do not need to go on DM quests, or even spiced quests, to get alignment points. I've given out plenty already, and few of them have been handed out on quests. Often, NPCs were not even nearby.

It's not easy to get shifts but it can be done recently i have had several good points dished out to me and hopefully i can get more as i am trying to get the alignment changed on one of my chars from Chatoic Neutral , to Neatural Good. If you think your doing a good act get in touch with a dm let them know if you want you alignment shift you will get it it just requires a lot of hard work.

For example running into a burning building to put out a fire is most definatley a good act and as such you should get good points for it and in fact i did :D

You don't act your alignment. Your alignment is a reflection of how you act.

It should be loose and easy to change.

Unless you're a paladin, your alignment means nothing for what you're allowed to do, so I don't see why DMs should even bother with changing it. RP your alignment, and if you realize yourself start to change, RP that. People shouldn't (unless of course they are paladins) react to you according to your alignment. Instead, they should react to you according to your IG actions. Any "good" action could have a million reasons why the character doesn't deserve good points, or vice versa, but what matters is not what the system regards you as, but what other characters regard you as.

I'd say it matters a great deal what the system reads your alignment as, seeing how there are a huge number of spells, weapons, items, and effect that can make a difference in both PvP and PvE that might not work properly on a character who by all rights behaves as a Chaotic Evil baby-eater but has an alignment readout of TN.

This is getting a little off topic, but you should play your character, and not necessarily the alignment above his head in a certain situation. However, the alignment picked at creation should generally dictate the sort of things the character has done in the past to make him what he is now. People do not change over night (usually), and nor should a character (barring some extreme circumstance). Just take a little time to think about what your PC would actually do before he or she does it.

It's fair to say the DM's have voiced their grievances with the players, and that the players have done so as well. Ideally we'll do more of this, and things will just keep getting better.

Summarizing, it isn't going to kill you to have that little 3 evil points if you're a paladin.

As I understand it, Paladins are not allowed to perform any evil act. AMIRITE?

We all make mistakes.

Besides, you should get evil points if you are assisting that uber ebol starving kobold in lower that is going to die if he doesn't eat soon.

Paladins may be paragons of Virtue, but I would like to see a Paladin BLACKGUARD!

Besides, it does matter if you are a cleric, if you step out of clerical alignment you're toasted (Exceptions being Gond, Oghma, and a few other deities)