Make them application.

These guys are rare, and the order they belong to is quite extinct.

Even Jergal's dogma sounds heartless and cruel, he doesn't care about morals. Correct me if I am wrong, but Jergal doesn't sound very Paladinny. Except for his penchant for law.

History/Relationships: Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul inherited most of the portfolios of Jergal when he wearily stepped down from his position and then faded into near-obscurity. The death of those deities left Jergal in the service to Cyric and then Kelemvor. Although his nature is that he must be loyal to the office of death, he can subtly undermine the holder of that office if he or she is not true to the office's responsibilities. Jergal works well with Kelemvor, but retains his scorn for Cyric and spends much of his efforts combating Velsharoon's efforts to prolong life into undeath.

Dogma: Each being has an eternal resting place that is chosen for him or her at the moment of creation. Life is a process of seeking that place and eternal rest. Existence is but a brief aberration in an eternity of death. Power, Success, and joy are as transitory as weakness, failure, and misery. Only death is absolute, and then only at its appointed hour. Seek to bring order to the chaos of life, for in death there is finality and a fixedness of state. Be ready for death for it is at hand and uncompromising. Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

He does'nt sound at all evil to me. He just believes when your time comes your time comes unless you have a very good reason to prolong your life don't. He's morbid not evil, certainly not good either though.

A paladin of this diety would spend his time combating undeath and dealing with those who would prolong their own lives for the sake of it alone etc etc. All open to interpretation really, but I can see how he has paladins.

I see why he should and shouldn't.

"Life should be prolonged only when it benefits the death of the world" could mean; don't stop that orc eating that baby, it won't help everything die sooner.

Bah, they make more sense than Hoaran paladins. Seriously, roll one up. Permenant headache, constant moral questioning!

A paladin of this diety would spend his time combating undeath and dealing with those who would prolong their own lives for the sake of it alone etc etc. All open to interpretation really, but I can see how he has paladins.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Jergal openly employ Undead?

Bah, they make more sense than Hoaran paladins. Seriously, roll one up. Permenant headache, constant moral questioning!

Don't hate on the Hoarran Paladins. Paladins who pursue the punishment of those who inflict wrongs on others > Paladins who want to record the names of everyone who's ever died in preparation for the end of the world.

POint entirely.

Also, Jergals past isnt exactly squaky either. Anyone who knew 2e Jergal would be astounded that he has pallys.

No jergal pallys plz.

Jergal has paladins. How they're played, how they interact with evil clerics or church-sanctioned undead, is up to the player, and the character may suffer the consequences of improperly portrayed faith or reap the benefits of being well-played.

I think Jergal paladins would be the most realist of all paladins, and best suited for survival in the Underdark - but that's my opinion based on no fact whatsoever.

It can be done.

I played a cleric of Jergal for over a year on a different server, and from what I learned through research was that people misunderstand Jergal's association with the undead.

Nowhere does it say Jergal clerics can summon undead, animate dead, or interact with the dead. "Church sanctioned" not "cleric sanctioned" undead can be associated with. In Faiths and Pantheons I believe it explains that the main use of undead by Jergal is so that some of his scriveners can continue their work for him past death.

His dogma also states that each person has a planned time of death upon birth, so summoning undead and animating corpses would be breaking Jergal's dogma in my opinion.

Jergal is heartless in how he sees death (the orc is eating the baby, let me check, yep that is what is supposed to happen) but he does not support mass use of the undead.

A Jergal cleric summoning undead or animating corpses, or associating with those that do consistently, would be on the very edge if not over the dogma of Jergal in my opinion.

Jergal is heartless, he can sanction undead, not his clerics, but in general he still opposes undead.

All my opinion of course.

Not to derail the thread, but since Hoar was brought up as not being fit for a Paladin I am going to try and type something on his behalf. I would argue that Hoar is perhaps the most fitting deity for a Paladin in Sanctuary, over all other possible paladin deities.

Modern western cultures tend not to see "eye for an eye" as good, this is fine and well, but it does not mean another culture couldn't see eye for an eye as good and not be correct. In a place where an unimaginable number of individuals are ready, willing, and able to kill, violate, and destroy everything you've ever loved, the justice of Hoar has a definite appeal. You were wronged, and Hoar brings you justice, there is a visible and clear balancing of the scales. In the real world, you commit murder; you serve time in prison, then get parole, and perhaps even have a shorter sentence for good behavior. Is that justice? Who knows, but when a follower of Hoar enacts justice, it is clear and understandable, and that appeals to the commoner, the balancing of the scales (especially with a touch of irony) is what Hoar is all about.

Hoar asks his followers to "Uphold true and fitting justice" which is something that should definitely call to a Paladin. "Do not fall into pursuing evil acts for evil's sake, for that way is seductive and leads only to one's downfall." This here proves that Hoar does not support the doing of evil acts, though many may twist his teachings to make it seem like he does. "Violence will meet violence and evil will pay back evil." Many people will interpret that to mean that the clergy of Hoar should be violent and pay back evil with evil, but in doing so they fall pray to the seduction Hoar warns them about. That statement is not directed just at those who are evil, but at everyone, including his clergy who may commit evil deeds. "All punishments must fit the crime." and "Revenge is sweetest when sharpened with irony." This more or less sums up what Hoar is all about. If a man rapes a woman, he does not encourage you to rape the man back, but instead castrate him. If a woman drowns her child, Hoar wants you to drown the woman. If an arsonist burns down a house, then it is only fair if his house is burned down also. If individuals died in the fire he set, then he should be tied up and left in his burning house to die also. Is that evil? No, that is justice. It is harsh, but it is also visible and fair.

A Paladin of Hoar, being both lawful and orderly, would devise a strict code that details what punishments fit which crimes, helping to clearly point out when a Hoaran is acting righteously and when they're acting as a loose canon.

Law is not a black and white term that is lacking in gray area, and it does not equal good or righteousness. The existence of Lawful Evil proves that. The law cannot cover every wrongdoing, and in protecting the innocent sometimes the law also protects the guilty. The servants of Hoar can act against these individuals, and can act when the law is silent, or binds other agents of the law. However, this is not because violence and evil are okay, or because the servants of the Doombringer are chaotic. It is because his dogma clearly tells his followers to "uphold true and fitting justice to follow the spirit, not the letter, of the law."

To some this may make them seem chaotic, but they are not ignoring the law, nor acting against it: they can follow what the law intended even when the letter of the law or its agents prove fallible, which is inevitable in a non-perfect world. It is for this reason, among others, that common people and the downtrodden love Hoar: those in power can abuse their power and remain within the law, thus holding the justice of Tyr at bay, but that does not protect them from the Doombringer's brand of justice.

I just thought I'd throw that out there. Hoar needs more love.

I personally imagine that playing a Paladin of a deity who was responsible for the deification of Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, and indirectly, Cyric, would be interesting to say the least.

Whoa. I wasn't saying Hoar paladins don't make sense. Nor that Jergal paladins don't make sense. They're just REALLY confusing. :(

A lot of love from me for the Hoarran Paladin post.

I think it'd be a brilliant and interesting character to play, and may actually take up the idea myself.

MithrilDragon

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Jergal openly employ Undead?

If depends on the situation. As stated in the dogma: Do not prolong life unless it benefits the death of the wor'd. Another understanding of this may be, "Don't become a Lich unless it's going to help everything die sooner/correctly". I don't see a Jergallan cleric summoning undead, as that would be infringing on his dogma.

He shouldn't have paladins, though. It's like a paladin of Bane, in a way. Entirely devoted to a cause that can't quite be labelled as 'good'.

Singling out one deity to be application isn't really productive to a new-player friendly server. There are a plethora of things in the Forgotten Realms that make very little sense if overthought. We certainly can't get rid of all of them. Clearly, it was decided at some point that Jergal should have paladins. So, I assume he is going to continue having paladins.

If you believe that playing a paladin of Jergal doesn't make much sense, then don't do it. Someone someday however may look at the god and go "Hmm! I have a Paladin Concept for this!" and then rock the server hard with what everyone thinks is impossible! It's not like there are Jergalite Paladins running around rampantly, anyhow.

I have seen one on the server and he was pretty rockin'. Pretty rockin' I'd say.

Word of significant importance in DC's last post: overthought.

You're assuming that this was overthought. In fact, all of my posts took very, very little thought. That is, it took very, very little thought to point out gaping holes in something that already isn't the most stable ship about. Pointing out reasons against Jergal Paladins = Throwing rocks at the broad side of a barn.

I'd think this issue settled in honesty. No need to drag it out any further!