How does bardsong add to move silently? I'm interested in some discussion regarding just how odd the bardsong feat is! Also, how does curse-song happen? Any canon lore and speculation about the RP of these feats is very welcome. Currently, here's my only reference on bardsong but Kronk must've only taken a single level of bard or something and very few perform ranks >.>
Edit: Found a better version of the example >.< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv-sKP17xTw
Hahaha. :P
IN D&D, once per bard level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him and himself, it deatails reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. These are D&D though, and I'm not sure how much is modified for Nwn.
Curse song, however, I believe was added for Nwn. Or at least I've never seen it used outside of Nwn. I would expect its singing to the effect of "You guys suck, look how ugly and weak you are".
Actually I knew what it was, simply I'm interested in possible RP explanation behind it... mechanics of it and how people treat it IC.
I've always treated it as a magical song. No different from bulls strength except it's in the form of a song, chant or instrument play whatever the bard in question is doing. It could also be looked at as inspiring power. It's pretty much magic same with curse song I believe.
I have always envisioned bard song as a rousing song or tale performed while in battle (or just prior to a battle with lingering effects). I do not see it as a magical ability (and I do not believe it can be dispelled either, like typical magical enhancements).
With my bard, Kristo, I always try to emote something along the lines of *sings a rousing fight song as he enters the fray* just before activating bard song. And again, it is not as if he sings the entire battle as the performance has lingering effects.
I look at the effects of bard song being similiar to the music they play at a sporting event during pre-game warmups...something to get the adrenaline going. A little "Black Betty" anyone?
-Kalos
Hammerfist0Curse song, however, I believe was added for Nwn. Or at least I've never seen it used outside of Nwn. I would expect its singing to the effect of "You guys suck, look how ugly and weak you are".
For instance, the Scottish for a long time enjoyed an advantage over their opponents in war. This advantage came through the use of bagpipes. Their song would preceed a scottish war party for miles, giving their opponents ample time to listen and wait for the army that approaches.
Interesting thing about fear in a crowd is that it spreads easily. One person will become unnerved by the noise of 'banshees' ... this music that truly grips at your soul. Frightening music. As the music draws closer, this person will become more agitated, more fearful. Their discipline breaks and soon that fear spreads to those around. They begin to wonder what awaits them. Their imaginations run wild at the possibilities... Soon the moral of the entire opposing force has been reduced substantially.
This tactic has been used throughout history. The instrument is different based on the culture... but the idea remains. Give your enemy time to think, time to worry, time to panic and break down. It's the military equivalent of staring at someone for hours during interrogation while not saying a word. The person begins to wonder what you are thinking, what you know. They begin to panic and soon they're telling you everything. They seek redemption because they fear you've already prooven them condemned.
Enter Curse Song: Same idea as the bagpipes. You're demoralizing your enemy rather than boosting the moral of your own comrades. You play a frightening tune that makes them panic. Once they panic, they begin to lose focus. They make mistakes, lose concentration.
Good discussion with interesting points. I think of bardsong and curse-song I guess, after having read through this, as perhaps one incredibly catchy line from a song.
"I'm a good for nothing! Another washed up has-been! I'm a dirty piece of scum!
I'm just a teenage waste! My brain's in outer space! And I'm having so much fun!"
This verse would function as bardsong for me I believe <3
As for the cursesong, demoralizing sounds like a great explanation. Time to start composing stuff for my upcoming bard character!
Orison "Stinkin' Awesome" Hallafat used to yell something along the lines of "Never give up!" during combat, right before activating his bard song.
It was just a few encouraging, inspiring words, with some of that natural bardic magic thrown in. I liked it.
EvilPig How does bardsong add to move silently? I'm interested in some discussion regarding just how odd the bardsong feat is! Also, how does curse-song happen?
When playing bards, I associate song and motion with the casting of spells, and treat the use of bard and curse song as similarly magical abilities the character has somehow in his or her career figured out how to hone and master. Perhaps the uplifting 'Bard Song' is a melodious, beautiful tone, or as simple as a phrase like "Never give up!" uttered in just the correct sequence and pitch. Alternatively, a 'Curse Song' has seemed more along the lines of a screech, a terrible wail, an incredibly piercing shout, or even possibly a lengthy and depressing Sharran dirge. Feel free to explore and interpret just how your character would implement this, and adapt creatively.
I always treated the bard song as a Magical ability. One that is expressed in words. Just as a Leader might give a speech before entering battle before hand, the bard song makes use of the edges of the weave weaved into the very song, causing the warriors to be magically enhanced. Since dispel "Dispels" temporary spells, like PFE or Bulls strength, it cannot effect Bard song since it is not a Spell. It is a magical ability. ((Someone correct me if I am wrong))
A curse song demoralizes your opponents, again, using pieces of the weave to inflict the damage ((if level 8)) aspect to it.
To my understanding, bards actually draw on a completely seperate field of magic when singing, called cantomancy. I don't know much at all about this strange phenomenon, other than that it is used to play on the mind and inspire or destroy morale.
This discussion is helping me with my character concept though and creating several bardsong/cursesong lines that fit to his areas of focus.
I have a sudden urge to play a bard now as well.
I seem to recall there being bagpipes for sale too....
HMMMM
Yes, but why does bloody bard song add to MOVE SILENTLY?
Does the bard go sing "Sneak! Sneak upon the foe!" while playing the cymbals?
Edit: "cantomancy" is the gayest word I ever heard. I can basically see this word going to reststops, trying to pick up other words like "synergy" or "relativism" up.
Edit 2: never liked the concept that bards can actually perform magic. It's dumb. However, that's true for D&D as a rule, but you got to work with what you got.
Because Bard song is magical Jasede. It magically increases your capabilities. Who's to say the bard song continues while the effect is up? Theres a feat called "lasting inspiration" that increases the duration of the songs effect. I'd say theres a very good reason this feat isn't called "Lasting Song"
Once you hear the song, melody, peotry thats it your affected by its magics. I'm almost entirely certain that the song is magical in nature, as true D&D bards are capable of the arcane magic that I'd assume related to the arcane nature of thier songs.
A noble with high charisma may be schooled enough to play you the most beutyful peice you've ever heard. However this peice won't increase your health damage etc however inspiring it may be.
Edit: Also excuse my horrific phail grammar I'm tired.
my thoughts are this:
Bards and sorcerers tap into the weave using pure force of personality or talent.
Bard/curse Song, and it's magical effects, could be explained similarly. Perhaps there is an aspect of the weave that can only be invoked by artistic means and bards have, unknowingly, tapped into it. Perhaps their voices and dancing motions actually are weave invoking somatic/verbal expressions, similar to the way a wizard waves his hands in certain pattern to make a spell happen.
I honestly think that bard song could be explained as one of those 'unexplainable' phenomena within the weave and it's infinite potential.
Jasede Yes, but why does bloody bard song add to MOVE SILENTLY?Does the bard go sing "Sneak! Sneak upon the foe!" while playing the cymbals?
Edit: "cantomancy" is the gayest word I ever heard. I can basically see this word going to reststops, trying to pick up other words like "synergy" or "relativism" up.
Edit 2: never liked the concept that bards can actually perform magic. It's dumb. However, that's true for D&D as a rule, but you got to work with what you got.
My example in the first post is just a joke example. Bard song adds to move silently because the inspiration from singing or reciting a line lasts, and keeps you in the mood to creep along quietly, or keeps you concentrated on every little component of staying quiet.
As for cantomancy being the gayest word ever... who cares? It's still a concept around what it is to use bardsong, that concept being something along the lines of singing the "song of the world," a song that follows the rhythm that runs deep in Forgotten Realms or whatever.
In DnD, bards are arcane casters... sure they use music and recitations and stories and all of these devices to do what they do... but the word "bard" in DnD is different from our understanding of a bard. Our understanding is a travelling entertainer who goes from kingdom to kingdom entertaining the royalty in hopes of a nice tip. That's hardly fitting for a character class in DnD. A bard from DnD is an adventurer with a highly diverse skill set who does far more than just sing songs on his cimbals or lute, but who influences and smart-talks people, and travels the land and lives from stories of his deeds or those of other people. It's entirely fitting for a bard to cast spells..
my connection is slow, I can barely type, my rp sucks, but after reading all this, all I can say is........ At least I get some. And I really am trying to improve my RP!
Jasede Yes, but why does bloody bard song add to MOVE SILENTLY?
Have you never listened to music and felt like it made a task easier to do? Homework? Yardwork? Exercise?
Music sets a rhythm. It can make it easier to focus on a task, whether that be sneaking through a dungeon, picking a lock, defending yourself against an attack or just striking a truer blow.
Music is almost 'magical' in this sense. It actually causes very distinct changes in your own body. Your heart will even synchronize to the rhythms of music. Your brain chemistry changes -drastically- in response to different forms of music.
Bard song is simply this same effect taken to the next level. It is actually enhanced through the use of magic.
Oh, and another thing. Bardic performances do not necessarily have to revolve around song and instruments.
In regular DnD a bard is a performer. Their inspirational song might come from other things as well.
Have you never been inspired while watching a truly riveting performance in a theatre? (plays! Not movies.. though those can be equally as powerful) Have you never listened to a poem read aloud and been moved to tears? Have you never felt your heart stir while watching a ballet or other dance performance? Poetry in motion. Poetry in voice. Poetry in song.
One of my most vivid concepts of the DnD rogue is a dancer who is adept at fighting. In old second edition there was a great class called a Sword Dancer who enhanced their swordsmanship through singing haunting tunes (no words typically, just vocalized sound) and dance techniques. I could easily see a wandering bard, collecting stories as he crosses the lands, never staying in one place for long but performing rousing displays of dance accompanied by little more than the lilting of their voice. And when it comes time for combat, that same bard applies their skills to deadly effect, literally dancing through the battle field, rousing their fellow travelers to mighty feats through their beautiful display of swordsmanship and heartfelt hymn... or frightening their foe, mentally disarming them as they are faced with an opponent quite unlike anything they've met before.
In 3.5 rules, and maybe 3.0 (I'm not sure) one of the bard abilities is "Inspire Competence," and it grants +2 to skill checks, except in cases where that skill bonus would be illogical.
NWN greatly simplified a bard's abilities like Fascinate and others into bard song and curse song. So in the case of bard song granting a bonus to move silently, it's more of an engine limitation than something that makes sense.
Alternately, you could consider that a bard might be singing, and his ally is inspired. The ally then slips far enough away from the singing where he can step quietly but still feels inspired by the song. Either way makes sense to me.
Honestly, I think it depends on the situation. I don't see why having Bard A singing to inspire the competence of Rogue B hiding in the corner so that Rogue B can approach Noble C unnoticed to pick his pockets.
Obviously a bard couldn't sing in order to promote his own ability to move silently... And in some cases the bard song may draw attention to the area where the rogue is accidentally... But if a Rogue and Bard team are in a tavern I see no reason why the Bard's song couldn't help that Rogue move silently and unseen to pick pockets at the bar or slip into the cellar unnoticed to nab a few good bottles of wine.
Yes, but why does bloody bard song add to MOVE SILENTLY?Does the bard go sing "Sneak! Sneak upon the foe!" while playing the cymbals?
Humming the James Bond theme does actually make you move stealthier. Try it sometime!
And Kenny Loggins' "Dangerzone" makes you pilot a fighter jet far better.
In regular DnD a bard is a performer. Their inspirational song might come from other things as well....Have you never been inspired while watching a truly riveting performance in a theatre? (plays! Not movies.. though those can be equally as powerful) Have you never listened to a poem read aloud and been moved to tears? Have you never felt your heart stir while watching a ballet or other dance performance? Poetry in motion. Poetry in voice. Poetry in song.
I'm rolling up a bard/mime artist this very second.
A few things. One: A bard means different things in different cultures. The Celtic peoples had bards who were the founts of knowledge for their community. They invoked magick, curses, etc through song. (or believed they did.) and were hardly wandering entertainers. In fact, Celtic bards were very similar to Celtic druids: sages in tune with the land around them and who they were as a people.
Two: Being an IRL player of the bagpipes, and a student of Celtic history, I can say that the feel of the bagpipes works both to rouse the spirits of those near the piper, and damage the morale of those opposed to them. The bagpipes were in fact banned by the English as a weapon of war, a ban that lasted from 1746 until about the reign of Queen Victoria in the second quarter of the 1800's. This was not done because of any fear of someone killing someone with the bagpipes, but rather because of the effect it had on the Highlanders.
Three: In the 3.5 ed supplement The Complete Scoundrel (a very good supplement to take a look at for the aid it offers to RPing all classes and alignments), there is a prestige class, the Cloaked Dancer. This prestige class requires ranks in perform:dance, sleight of hand, and hide. It grants the power to daze, fatigue, or frighten enemies through your dance performance. It also gives you a sneak attack type ability with a light weapon on those distracted by your dance. They are considered flatfooted, so vulnerable to your sneak attacks as well. This is just an example specific to the thread's line of questioning.
I could list examples like this from different sourcebooks to show the influence perform has upon abilities, whether it be through song, dance, acting, poetry, or what have you. There are plenty of concrete examples both in the real world and in DnD to illustrate the how and why of the functioning of the Bard's inspiration abilities.