Here is a question for all of you to answer/discuss.

What classes do you think of most capable at being successful adventurers? Discuss it in terms of RP and PnP, not in terms of NWN mechanics because we all know what powerhouses the right sorcerors can be, etc.

And here's my opinion. * stands for the chances of surviving. The more *'s, the better the chance.

Barbarian - Bard - * Cleric - ** Druid - ** Fighter - Monk - **** Paladin - *** Ranger - *** Rogue - * Sorceror - * Wizard - ****

Barbarians and fighters stand in the front and swing weapons. There can be instances of intelligent barbarians and fighters but... they can't be THAT intelligent if they stand in the front and swing weapons. Fighters are extremely knowledgeable of combat. But, soldiers are too and soldiers die. Not to mention, fighters often are soldiers.

Bards, rogues, and sorcerors... these are the classes that I associate strongly with adventuring and not with professions outside of adventuring. Bards, rogues, and sorcerors aren't fool enough to charge at six orcs with only some platemail between the blades and their skin, but there is this to consider. Bards and rogues both rely on guile and cleverness and quickness to a degree, and also largely on good luck consequently, it seems. The common ground between bards and sorcerors is that they draw their strength from force of personality. That said, these three classes seem only relatively doomed from my perspective, not all-out doomed like fighters and barbarians. Something lacking from these three classes requirements is WISDOM.

Clerics and druids. Divine magic seems like safe magic to me. Why? It requires WISDOM. These are individuals who don't live purely to adventure, either, and as such can progress in levels and live a peaceful life simultaneously merely by becoming more involved in their teachings, etcetera.

Paladins and rangers. Paladins are usually platemail warriors, which is in itself a foolish profession. However, paladins EXIST to crusade, and are extremely well suited to it, requiring wisdom, charisma, and strong physical stats. A good paladin can change the world and live to tell the tale. Just look at Torm. Now, rangers... rangers fit somewhat into the reckless adventurer category of bards and rogues. The difference with rangers, however, is that they AREN'T reckless. Rangers are survivors. They use wisdom to cast spells (divine spells, aka "safe" spells in my book).

Now our final category. Monks, and wizards. An odd choice, some might say, for how often does an adventuring wizard live past his 5 hp, cantrip/magic missile casting days? Not often. However, wizards can grow in power in more ways than adventuring. Wizards are scholars, determined to learn everything they possibly can about magic, and in many cases, everything else. The result is that wizards can find loopholes around common adventuring. They're the ones who'll go out and hire the five warriors to stand between them and orcs, and they're also the ones who at higher levels will likely be unstoppable, if entirely insane. So, the risk for a good, fortunate wizard is insanity moreso than death. Also worth mentioning for wizards is that power comes to them through reading, writing, and arithmatic. Hardly as risky as relying on agressiveness and weapons and armor.

Now my personal favorite, monks. Where wizards, clerics, rangers, druids, and any other lore and/or wisdom grounded classes gather power from outside sources and use wisdom to understand those sources and interpret signs from those sources, monks create their own power through understanding their own selves. A monk can sit on a mountaintop his whole life and get damage reduction 20/+1 (theoretically) out of it. Monks don't need to adventure, and when they do they know very well what their body dictates they can and cannot do. Monks are very deeply in tune with self, and as such can view the outside world from just that perspective. An outside perspective. What may not be obvious to others simply pops up for monks as clear and present. That said, an adventuring trainee monk may not be expected to have a huge lifetime.. as they are facing down melee combatants wearing plain clothing.

Anyways, that's my outlook on the classes and just how likely to survive they realistically would be.

What classes do you think of most capable at being successful adventurers? Discuss it in terms of RP and PnP, not in terms of NWN mechanics because we all know what powerhouses the right sorcerors can be, etc.

Listed in order is my list of true adventurers.

1. Bards
2. Rogues
3. Fighters
4. Rangers
5. Paladins
6. Barbarians
7. Clerics
8. Sorcerers
9. Wizards
10. Monks
11. Warrior
12. Adept
13. Expert
14. Commoner

Adventurers are people driven to the extremes of experience for thrills, renown, treasure, freedom. They are those people that are not content with the how things are for them and strive to gain more for themselves. To be content with -anything- makes you a horrid adventurer, You may still be able to be a smart and powerful individual, but it that thirst that creates men and women that dive into the unknown- into the bowels of danger- Searching for that golden dream.

Bards are the quintessential adventurers. They are your leaders, your continuous source of motivation, your groups source of conductivity and inspiration; and lets not forget they are your outlet to the people outside of your quest and the legends thereafter. Without a bard- your epic adventure could end in a meaningless and quickly forgotten victory. They are the promise of immortality, and as such they are well versed in all legends, and apt to recall nearly every tale or story the taverns of this aged world has ever laid witness to. Bards are adventure, while Rogues and Fighters are the people of it.

Rogues are your intelligence. Tens of times more common then a wizard, these men by their very nature are already on the fringe of what the aristocracy declares as normal. They don't have what then want. They are the street smarts, the quick talking, gold nabbing, trap diffusing, life savers that are truly necessary to have a real adventure. They are the life blood of the quest. Scouting, or Dungeon delving.

Fighters are the muscle. Without these tough crew of hardened experienced power your adventure is likely to last a grand total of a week- if your lucky. And you better be lucky, for these guy are your wall that keeps the deathly dangers off the crew- and allows the rest of them time to think, run, steal, or anything else. In a true adventure anyone can get killed doing their part- Rogues to traps, Fighters to combat. Its these guys that really pull the entire cart along. Fighters are not merely front liners nor are they just soldiers, no, that is the place of the Warrior; the contented or ill-motivated man should never think to join the call of the quest- they are too busy looking backwards to match for the task. Thats where a fighter excels. They are tough, smart, quick, deadly, and above all- they are willing to Risk It All. They are those people that focus their lives around being the best in their trade. Whether that be Dueling, Thugry, Battle, or Dungeon delving- These men and women have to be on the top of their game to walk out alive.

Paladins, Rangers, and Clerics all have other duties to attend to. They may go out on a quest now and again, but their duties lie within the structure of the cities and the wilderness around it. These people could live their entire lives without an adventure, living their lives in their necessary positions. Rangers tend to be loners, even when adventure calls they are less likely to share in it, unless dragged in by being hired on for some direct purpose. They rareily seek adventure out. Paladins respond when evil is afoot- but trully, these are wars and crusades more-so then adventure, and they often fail to leave room for the other fruits of adventure in their dedication towards their destination. Clerics... well... These people are the crux of societies connection to the divinely inescapable world, I really don't see them being often wanting to set on an adventure unless ordered to by necessity, hierarchy, or creed.

Wizards and Sorcerers Are really either too rare, or two focused to be anywhere near my top list of adventuring classes. Wizards dont learn by throwing themselves into battle (unless its D&D) they learn by years of toiling in some lost tower on some unsolved arcane conundrum or obscure passage. And Sorcerers are likely to be just as much of a danger to themselves as anyone around them. Only a fool would want to bring these demon or dragon blooded men along. Course all classes have their use in the adventuring field- but a sorcerers rarity and tendency to channel bursts of barely controlled magics out around the party can't be seen as an innately practical thing. Plus they take another share of the loot and only help now and again. Freeloaders. Psh.

Monks um.. should stay in their monestaries. Really! These people are the worst adventurers of all time! I'm almost wanting to put them on a step above commoners- but even a commoners experiences more of the world around them then an aloof monk. Personal perfection doesn't require any adventuring- and such, no motivation to adventure for the sake of it. It is much wiser to learn yourself through meditation and quiet contemplation.

Adventurers are not about wisdom, they are about testing to odds, daring the impossible, and dieing either as rich men or legends. They do not wisely avoidi the dangerous adventure. That is the anti-thesis of what is required in men. An adventurer is the man to whom's story you can tell in a room and watch as they fall silent, becoming enveloped by your words of these heroic deeds, and yearn for that same excitement to enter their own lives.

There's a difference between "not dying" and "surviving". To succeed in the latter, all you need is a character that you like enough to stick with, through and through.

Druids and rangers are pretty darn good at survival.

Top three based on survivability in the underdark would be:

1.) Cleric/Druid (tie) 2.) Rogue 3.) Monk/Ranger (tie)

1. ) Cleric because if they have a bed roll and sufficient rations, they can buff, fight, and heal in that order if they need to survive. They can change out spells based on what creatures are lurking outside their camp during a long journey, and can wear full plate without chance of spell failure.

1.) Druids have spells that can make themselves potent fighters once properly spelled up. Combine this with his summons and animal companion (when buffed up) and the druid goes from a single person to a full sized three person party in a couple of turns. Add Animal Empathy and you've got a party of four. Plus with free unabated resting in nature, this guy can rest anywhere to recharge his spells and keep moving.

2.) Rogues can do just about anything and can mimic just about anything with UMD. They can wear specialized armor (thought light as it may be), use trinkets/wands they normally couldn't use in a pinch, and (if a hin or elf) can get the highest hide and move silently and that means mega-stealth. You can walk to nearly the ends of the module (or the underdark as a whole) stealthed. With a very few exceptions, Rogues have a free pass for exploration. Against single targets they can dish out damage on par with a barbarian if they have the element of surprise.

Finally, Monks/Rangers

These tied because they essentially come out to the same survival rating but for different reasons.

3.) Monks can hide, like rogues, but can hold their own in combat as well. Though they lack UMD of rogues and buffing power of clerics, they can become immune to disease and poison, as well as gain resistances to mind spells. With an extra attack per round and stunning fist, they can take on more opponents than a rogue while still doing a fair amount of damage.

3.) Rangers are nearly as good as Druids, but what they lack in magic they make up for in combat prowess and speed. The ranger can run fast (though not as fast a monk) and has enough spells to help him hide and in combat. His animal companion and Animal Empathy allow him to have a small party as well. They also can rest in the wilderness aiding in their ability to strike-and-move.

As far as life expectancies go, Fighting classes are short, but Paladin's are shorter because of PvP assassinations. Rogues and bards are next to go because they have abilities that give them an edge (hiding and spells), but they often get in over their heads or suffer from failed checks and die accordingly (hide or spell failure)

As far as 'adventurousness', Rogues and bards hands down. They're entire existence is based on luck and being versatile. UMD is what drives his here. They can mimic the abilities of so many others, and have their own special way of dealing with stick situations. Plus they can run around with most folks without any worry of being a target. Plus their social skills can get them involved in anything that catches their fancy.

Okay, I wanna further this along a bit because these are all interesting reads so far.

Which class do you find the most likely to be SUCCESSFUL at adventuring. This probably means a class that becomes a lasting name in a storyline, or a class that reaches epic and becomes a hands-down authority figure and legend. This can also mean, for some character concepts, a comfortable and intact retirement with enough funds to create a family legacy and give your great-great grandchildren a comfortable lifestyle.

Well, there is no class that automatically makes you a superadventurer. The player has to do that and make himself known and do heroic (or EVIL!) deeds.

-Chosen of Mystra PrC- Without any doubt.

But, Nwn wise, id say that a bard.

EvilPig Which class do you find the most likely to be SUCCESSFUL at adventuring. This probably means a class that becomes a lasting name in a storyline, or a class that reaches epic and becomes a hands-down authority figure and legend.

Class and build generally have little to do with this.

Hammerfist0 -Chosen of Mystra PrC-

The Chosen of Mystra is a template, not a class.

Cleric . . . . . . Everything else . . . . . . Monk

Bards

Cleric

Rogue

Fighter

Everything else

monk.

1. Cleric 2. Ranger/Rogue 3. Fighter/Rogue 4. Rogue 5. Ranger

This is completely subjective and entirely dependent on the player. This is just my experience with my style of play.

Best for adventuring on EfU? 99% is on your playstyle. Many of the "best" and "most powerful" PCs on this server have been very far crys from the best builds. Flaws can indeed make a great PC!

That being said, there are clearly some easier classes to be than others. EfU has done a good job at balancing out the classes, but nonwithstanding, here's my take.

The Best

Cleric: Self-healing, self-buffing, fullplate-wearing, PfE-ing, no heavy RP-demanding (current posts nonwithstanding) superbeasts. Best spell list to have from level 2 up (perhaps with wizards overtaking in the highest levels) magic weapon, PfE, bull's, endurance, owl's, hold person, flame weapon, I could go on. Only real weakness is stealth (trickery domain can solve somewhat). Also great at PvP (Hold person at level 2!) EfU on easy mode. 10/10

The Good

Druid: Has a lot of the upside of a cleric (healing, buffs) with much tighter RP restrictions and some missing spells (PfE, Hold Person, magic weapon). Some spells (Barkskin) help, and shifts/animal companions add for great diversity and help in times of need. AnEmp+summon+companion+PC=4 man army. Good stealth, gear, PvPers in wild areas. 9.5/10

Bard: EfU has really made this so-so class a gem. Neat loot, fun to RP, super-useful in groups. Small spell list, but thoughtful choices can make them shine. Demanding skill set means you are going to have to have high int, or miss out on some really neat skills (perform, tumble, spellcraft, hide/ms, dicipline). Quite flexible. 9/10

Rouge: Sneaky sneaky. Fun to RP. Great at stealth (but not the best: see Ranger) Skills are much needed on most quests. Sneak attack really hurts, evasion saves lives. 9/10

Fighter: You can make these guys whatever you want them to be, both mechanically (tons of feats!), and RP-wise. Team up with a cleric and go to town. Clericless, look to drink lots and lots of potions. 8.5/10

The Rest

Rangers: Great stealthers, favored foe is useful, but not really an all the time frontliner (AC is so-so at best) and people might get OOC annoyed when your d10 hp PC is plinking away with a bow in the back. Spells are ok at best and late coming. Camo is nice, but eh... 8/10

Wizard: Beware the wizard. For every super-powerful, well played wizard you see, a dozen have died. Fragile glass cannons who are often expected just to buff the frontliners up (and very often this is the wise thing to do, IMO). Super PvPers if prepared, dead meat if not. Needs to get to high levels to shine. 7/10

Paladin: Fighters with less feats and the hardest RP line to follow. Neat abilities are fun, and quite helpful in specific quests. Not for novices, expect fallen status. All the same, rather fun and a great way to learn good RP. Tough stat spread. Maybe my favorite class to play? 7/10

The Less than the Rest

Barbarian: Hard to have the stats (high str, dex, con, AND cha!?). No fullplate. Dont try to min-max. d12 hp, damage reduction, and taunt is nice... 5.5/10

Monk: I love monks, I really do. I've played one to 40 on another server. They just dont work for me here. No AC, low hp, bab loses to fighting classes. Good loot, decent stealth, ok "free" feats. Tough to RP and multiclass. 3.5/10

Sorcerer: Limited spell list hurts your versitility; slower spell progression sees wizards zoom ahead. No hp, skills. Save these for crazy Pal/Sorc builds on PvP servers. Wizard on hard mode. 3/10

Okay. I haven't really read anything you guys wrote, except for two or three lines. Here's me crossing my fingers I stay on topic.

Monks, Rogues, Druids, Rangers, Barbarians, Wizards, Sorcerers, Fighters and Clerics all have their strengths and weaknesses, which can take a character a long way through the Underdark. It basically comes down to having an orginized quickbar and not trying to push your limits. For some classes 'tanking' a single NPC is already beyond their limit-

That aside, there really isn't a single class which would have a hard time surviving and doing his thing as long as it goes coupled with a decent group of people. Any class can be turned into a powerhouse given you take a deep breath and spend your monies on potions and the like. In this aspect there's really not a single class which, not given entirely poor circumstances, can easily survive. The greatest danger in EFU aren't the NPCs' which can be avoided most of the time, but calling an IC/mechanically wrong move.

As far as survival goes, every class playing in the front-seat VIP line will have the hardest time surviving EFU. This might not be true on paper, but let's not forget that it's exactly those who become the subject of your random buff-bot Mage/Cleric instead of those Rogues and Monks in the back. Herefore, any class has an equally good chance surviving. You don't /have/ to jump into combat when the odds are against your little self.

Hope this was somewhat on topic.

Oh, PS: Monks are the best Assassins NwN has to offer if you know how to play one.

These topics are silly.

Give me any character, any build, any rp restriction, and I can keep it alive.

The trick though, is to just know how to play whatever your character is.

Unless you play a low Constitution, low Strength, low Dexterity fighter who refuses to wear armor, wields a dry weasel as his favored weapon as a follower of Garagos who refuses to retreat from combat and insists on combating everything he sees--you can keep it alive.

It just takes some thought on what specifically your weaknesses (as a build and as a player-vs-monster or player-vs-player) are in combat. Then figure out how your character would surmount them, or not (if you want to die afterall).

My highest level character was a wizard/fighter. Hardly a "great" combo, but the DMs helped out with terrific rewards for my character, and I overcame his weaknesses by relying heavily on scrolls. Very heavily.

I played a very effective fighter/cleric/wizard--and that is a lousy combination. I had a monk/ranger/thief, another lousy pvp combination, but terrific at pvm when in a group (which was part of his ability to overcome his weaknesses-he always sought to fight with a group). I've had a barbarian/bard/Pale Master (you can not go worse than this build!) and yet he's survived for almost two full years now as a character.

[edited] [for the sake of my not meaning to hijack this thread] [edited]

As far as this topic goes, it was a discussion about the adventurous nature (and potential) of each class. The idea of how skilled the player is, is not in question here, as that is ALWAYS a factor and thus is removed from this speculation of this topic.

Ditto

This is a sidetrack of the topic, I'll PM you for further discussion.