I have a minor beef with brewing. Maybe this will be shot down as intended but I would still like to suggest a change.

Right now, a wand crafter can cast a single spell and make a wand with 25 charges on it. Granted, these wands can be used by only a select few. But, what it really means is that a wand crafter has to spend far less time to get the same result as a potion brewer.

In order to make 25 of even the lowest level spell potions... it would take me no less than two and a half hours.

So my proposal is this: Potion Cauldrons. You buy one, for say... 50-90 gold. You cast a single spell on it, and it drops 10 potions in your bag. You then lose the cauldron plus the gold and XP of making ten potions.

The number of potions a cauldron can make could even be altered. But as it is, I find it a terrible use of my time to make potions when so many are needed at a given time. I might receive an order for ten Bark Skin potions. This many potions I can easily keep on me, but at some point I have to stop and spend an hour and a half to make those ten potions. I can't even feasibly quest during this time since I've used up many of my best spell slots to make the potions. All I can really do is hope to find someone to chat with between resting periods, or just log out.

The higher level you are, the more spell slots you get. If you are really that dedicated to brewing, you could always take Still Spell or Silent Spell and just use the spell slots in the level above the spell you want to cast. I think brewing works fine as it is now; my brewer has no trouble making potions, then going off to do something else like chat up the locals.

Try filling an order for 10 Cure Serious Wounds when you can only memorize 2 at a time. It's annoying at the best of times.

Alot of the brewers brew potions when there is no need to have spell memorized for anything. Ie they rest they brew the potions without an order to fill. Sure you might not sell them all that second, but you should get enough profit to even out or make some profit.

You're missing the point. I already do this by brewing many potions in advance. However, this takes -time- and lots of it. 10 Cure Serious, for example would take five hours. Five Hours. Sure, I can do some other things in between. But I don't live in this game. I have other things I'm trying to do. I don't want to have to log in every 30 minutes to brew two potions, then log out.

This is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Currently the amount of time required to make potions to interact with and sell to people is too much.

Besides...Why would you as players not want to make more at once? It is saving you time and gives you more time to actually play your character. If anyone, I expected DMs to have issues with this.

Seen from a micromanaging point of view, this isn't a half-bad suggestion. It's not like it's going to allow potion brewers to carry more potions anyway, or save them anything but RL time.

Exactly. It still costs just as much gold and XP. Those should be the limits on brewing potions, not how much time the player has to dedicate to brewing potions.

I like the potion cauldron idea a lot, and I think it's an adequately creative solution to the problem.

Agreed

Thumbs up.

werd

Potions can be time consuming. It would probably be preferable for everyone involved if someone could toggle an option on an item, then make 10 or however many potions with a single spell.

The real question is, does this break game balance in any way? Is waiting for potions, and spending time making them add to their value or the difficulty of the server at all?

I would argue that, unless your PC is engaged in a lot of hostile conflict with other PCs of the game, probably not. And even so, you could just log off and wait for the potions to be done, then log back in.

It also takes like, 20-30 minutes between rests. While I am willing to do a few of the max level 5 quests without all my spells prepared, past that I need all my spell slots to have a good chance of surviving a tougher quest on my wizard. I am sure there are several players with d4 characters that have soloed the ogre tribe quest with no spells prepared, but mine can't. But the thing is, again, that you don't have to quest. You can just idle or log until you can rest again.

So, the thing we have to ultimately discuss is if requiring RL time to make potions balances the fact that people make some extra money from this creation feat? Even with buffs from casters available and generally utilized, many players will have to agree that potions are necessary to survive the higher end quests. By the same token, a fighter is supposed to have the proper feats to make his character tough in a fight. If an equivalent level fighter to your caster kept falling over dead or running away, you'd get pissed, just as if the same fighter couldn't locate the potions they needed to survive when the buffs are dispelled or wear off would.

If you are better able to survive quests, through feat selection, you save money on healing and other consumables. The proper feat for any character will presumably pay off, even if it is in money they don't spend. Therefore, unless someone can demonstrate that there is a catastrophic inbalance between the gold acquired through potions compared to the amount saved by having a different feat, including the feats for making wands and scrolls, the only reason why this shouldn't be implemented is if it cannot be easily done in the NWN engine.

This would have definate balance issues. In a single rest, a Healing domain could make about 100 CSW potions, which he would then sell for something like 500 for 10. This would net a massive profit and could effectively violently destroy the potion economy.

I think I'd support this idea, and don't think it would be too imbalancing.

Potion brewing is a major PITA compared to wand crafting. I would love to see this put in as well.

THAT WAS SHERRYS 2000th POST!!!

!!!!

Well now, the only problem is figuring out how to do it.

I imagine it is as simple as replicating the current brew potion script onto a new item and modifying it to grant X of a potion instead of 1... But I really have no clue how to go about finding this information. :-\

SkillFocuspwn This would have definate balance issues. In a single rest, a Healing domain could make about 100 CSW potions, which he would then sell for something like 500 for 10. This would net a massive profit and could effectively violently destroy the potion economy.

+: reduce real-time for brewers +: playing wizard/witch with a cauldron sounds cool +: reduce stocks for PC merchants

- : lvl 3 brewers can compete with lvl 8 brewers on volume basis, when competition on quality basis doesn't exist.

(It should, but most folks don't RP the fact that for the common man, a mighty wizard probably makes better brews that an apprentice. Everyone seems to know everything about brewing, cost included. I've even had gnomes telling Dalman they prefer to buy at the kobolds... yes, i know dalman is a reap off, but whatever)

If you want to be a trader, you've got to put time in it IG. Getting profit for 10 brews because you can cast 1 spell seems dangerous for game balance, both for cash flow and game difficulty. Just get blur or serious healing and you're a millionnaire.

IMO, traders, and most especially brewers, should miss quests because they have a business to run. Choose coins over xp, or vice versa. Those coins can get you cool stuff if you really make a business of it (wands, for one). Choose to RP your merchant or to RP in a quest. You can always create another PC to quest while your brewer is out of spells.

Don't get me wrong: i like the idea, but that "easy volume" thing thing bothers me. It may easily mean the end of RP merchant brewers. Stock is the main advantage a merchant has compared to the occasional brewer (with perhaps knowing where to find cheaper vials, and having a good appraise).

So....

idea 1: get cool looking cauldrons, with colored smoke and stuff

idea 2: get various sizes : small cauldons (3 brews per spell), medium (5 brews), big ones (7 brews), with weight accordingly. Weaklings should have a hard time carrying the big cauldron, unless they have storage or something.

idea 3: make potion effects vary (just a little) according to lvl

idea 4: make cheap vials (ex:8 coins)/ standard vial (ex:10 coins)/quality vial (ex: 12coins) so that quality "shows"

idea 5: get lots more hard to find (islands...) alchemy equipement (cf. Elder scrolls, Oblivion), and make the number of appearing brews vary with the amount of equipement,

idea 6: make the number of appearing brews vary with spellcraft skill or check: each time there's a small risk (fun, he, you've just lost the 1000 coins ingredients on that bulk order, and now you've a debt...)

idea 7: mix idea 5 and 6.

idea 8: make regeants interfere with brewing, so that dedicated researchers can brew special stuff once in a while.

idea 9: make the cauldron not re-usable, so that it's an investment to tend to large orders.

My two cents. Cool ambiant idea.

PS: why not make wand charges vary a little with lvl of crafter, ex: 15+1/lvl (hence rougthly 20 to 24 charges in EfU)

Since it looks like the cool thing to do is chime in at the moment, I'll chime in and say I'm against it.

An alternative to the original suggestion would be to base the amount of brewed potions/cauldron on a level dependent equation, but then there's the problem of the cauldron's cost.

Unless an actual cauldron item was made, which would check the inventory for magical potion bottles, get the PC's class level, and make as many potions as possible limited by class level or amount of potion bottles, whichever is lower. This allows higher level casters to brew more potions than lower level casters, but lower level casters won't lose a lot of gold because they're not high enough level to fully take advantage of the cauldron.

I'll put it an idea I've seen on a different server.

You make a placeable cauldron or brewing station. In that server you didn't have to pay to use it, however you could have NPCs watch the places to brew and charge coins to use it.

You could set up the pot in mycopolis as a more primitive one, the spellguard could have one, the drow arcanist at mur. Have them all charge to use the cauldron, and you have to also have the bottles to put the brews into. The NPCs could charge more depending on how many brews you want, appraise, and what spell circle it is.

-Just a random idea.

I like this idea!

Now you're just getting into a whole heap of scripting problems. The main one being that there aren't different versions of each spell available for each level to be used in a potion. Not to mention the idea of farming your own materials to brew potions is ...well not a solution to saving peoples time. That just requires people to go out and gather what the game already is charging them for. You don't lose 50 gold for making that potion for no reason, that is the cost of the materials used. Further, failure in crafting is just annoying. If I can sit and cast 5 spells in a row to create five potions and never fail, there is no reason I should ever fail in making them in a batch. And as for profiting from ten potions for a single cast... Is that not exactly what a wand maker can do? Only difference is he profits for twenty five uses for one cast.

For simplicities sake, The cauldron would just replace our current potion bottles. Instead of getting one potion, you get X depending on how the DMs want to balance it.

However, as has been stated before; Even if someone can quickly and easily afford to craft 500 potions... There still has to be a market for those potions and people have to be able to purchase them.

500 Cure serious, at my prices, would be 30,000 gold. :-P I'd be sitting on those potions a looooong time before I sold them and be stupidly encumbered the whole time.

Letsplayforfun +: reduce real-time for brewers +: playing wizard/witch with a cauldron sounds cool +: reduce stocks for PC merchants

- : lvl 3 brewers can compete with lvl 8 brewers on volume basis, when competition on quality basis doesn't exist.

(It should, but most folks don't RP the fact that for the common man, a mighty wizard probably makes better brews that an apprentice. Everyone seems to know everything about brewing, cost included. I've even had gnomes telling Dalman they prefer to buy at the kobolds... yes, i know dalman is a reap off, but whatever)

If you want to be a trader, you've got to put time in it IG. Getting profit for 10 brews because you can cast 1 spell seems dangerous for game balance, both for cash flow and game difficulty. Just get blur or serious healing and you're a millionnaire.

IMO, traders, and most especially brewers, should miss quests because they have a business to run. Choose coins over xp, or vice versa. Those coins can get you cool stuff if you really make a business of it (wands, for one). Choose to RP your merchant or to RP in a quest. You can always create another PC to quest while your brewer is out of spells.

Don't get me wrong: i like the idea, but that "easy volume" thing thing bothers me. It may easily mean the end of RP merchant brewers. Stock is the main advantage a merchant has compared to the occasional brewer (with perhaps knowing where to find cheaper vials, and having a good appraise).

So....

idea 1: get cool looking cauldrons, with colored smoke and stuff

idea 2: get various sizes : small cauldons (3 brews per spell), medium (5 brews), big ones (7 brews), with weight accordingly. Weaklings should have a hard time carrying the big cauldron, unless they have storage or something.

idea 3: make potion effects vary (just a little) according to lvl

idea 4: make cheap vials (ex:8 coins)/ standard vial (ex:10 coins)/quality vial (ex: 12coins) so that quality "shows"

idea 5: get lots more hard to find (islands...) alchemy equipement (cf. Elder scrolls, Oblivion), and make the number of appearing brews vary with the amount of equipement,

idea 6: make the number of appearing brews vary with spellcraft skill or check: each time there's a small risk (fun, he, you've just lost the 1000 coins ingredients on that bulk order, and now you've a debt...)

idea 7: mix idea 5 and 6.

idea 8: make regeants interfere with brewing, so that dedicated researchers can brew special stuff once in a while.

idea 9: make the cauldron not re-usable, so that it's an investment to tend to large orders.

My two cents. Cool ambiant idea.

PS: why not make wand charges vary a little with lvl of crafter, ex: 15+1/lvl (hence rougthly 20 to 24 charges in EfU)

I'm against it. All I keep hearing is complaints about there being too much gold/consumables floating around, this would be a step in the wrong direction.

Wands are easier to make by virtue of what they are, a single item. I don't like the sheer volume of potions someone could whip up in one rest, seems a bit unrealistic to both the economy and from an IC/RP standpoint if this was put in.

Doesn't it already seem unfair how easy it is to make gold if your a potion/wand crafter, to then make it even easier?

I don't know if I'm just doing something drastically wrong, but I've barely made any money with my item creation feats. I wouldn't characterize it as easy.

I've only heard complaints about the availability of cheap and easily usable healing wands. This would help offset that, and make fighters without an additional divine class more appealing. Making potions comparable to making wands is desirable, in my opinion and I would love to see more fighters or barbarians without a divine class tacked on.

I tried to make a brewer once. I spent a half hour, got board, went on a quest i wasnt ready for, and got pwnt. Great idea, might even make playing a brewer possible.

Anonymous I tried to make a brewer once. I spent a half hour, got board, went on a quest i wasnt ready for, and got pwnt. Great idea, might even make playing a brewer possible.

Yes, was me. >.<

I play a straight fighter, and in doing so, it becomes readily apparent that Wand Crafting outnumbers potion crafting by like. 5 to 1. Or higher.

Easier potions plz.

I'm totally for this. 100% on board. I'll open it up for DM discussion.

I'm for it.

Vlaid I'm against it. All I keep hearing is complaints about there being too much gold/consumables floating around, this would be a step in the wrong direction.

Wands are easier to make by virtue of what they are, a single item. I don't like the sheer volume of potions someone could whip up in one rest, seems a bit unrealistic to both the economy and from an IC/RP standpoint if this was put in.

Doesn't it already seem unfair how easy it is to make gold if your a potion/wand crafter, to then make it even easier?

Another thing about what you said.

Consumables are also well balanced. Sometimes you steam roll a quest and use only minimal consumables (or if your cheap/stupid/incredibly lucky none at all) but I garantuee you that if you get some spice your going to use a good portion of your supplies depending on the challenge brought forward.

With the current system its barely even needed for dms to drop extra loot after spice because generally you already have a massive stock of consumables from quests previous (or should have.)

If you look at may corpses from spice, or the more dangerous nasty quests about. You'll noticesome common traits to them such as; A) Had tons of gold and bare minimuim consumables which are unusued. B) Had tons of consumables and tons of gold but used barely any of them. C) Got dispelled and died because they got [insert status effect here] because they did'nt use thier consumables and expected a mage to recast in a second.

Sorry for going off topic but needed to be said. To summerize idea is excellent and won't imbalance anything and consumables that are properly used require effort to maintain.

Also, responding to Vlaid:

The solution to making consumables and gold more rare in the game is -not- to make crafting of said consumables mind numbing. The obvious solution would be to reduce the amount of gold in the economy. This would most easily be accomplished by reducing payouts from quests.

And the comment that was made about wand availability and Use Magic Device is fantastic. The ability to use wands should not be common. They're great for priests and mages who can sit back and heal or rebuff people mid combat without wasting spell slots... but your typical up front fighter shouldn't -always- have that rogue level or two that lets him consistently spam Cure Serious Wounds on himself.

If cheap (PC prices, as opposed to often horribly overpriced NPC prices) potions were more readily available you would have fewer characters tossing in that rogue level just for the wand use and more who are built to match their real concept.

And Thank You DMs for taking the time to look at this.

I would like to see more players play up "pure" builds rather than multiclassing for the wands. I don't care about MCing when people actually have half, or even a third of their levels in the caster class, but when they have a single level of a caster and five in their desired class, it's rather obvious. I think, perhaps, a small part of this may have to do with potions not being as easy and quick to make, but another is that wands seem to be more cost effective (although not by a lot). Sure, I wouldn't mind it as much if they were just saving money on healing or a buff, but it also takes the form of spamming the hold wand during fights. I could purpose a solution to the problem, but I'd likely be hunted down and killed in RL by angry EfUers. :lol:

I'm still for this cauldron thing though. Sounds snazzy.

MMm. Forum Necromancy.

Just thought I'd bump this to see if a solution was ever found. I know I was unable to figure it out but my scripting knowledge is... Minimal.

Necromancer!

I'll point out that the the current system allows clerics with the healing domain to be able to make more healing potions.

As these clerics can cast cure serious as both second and third level spells, most mid-level clerics with a decent WIS can cast 9-10 at any given time.

A normal cleric without the healing domain can only cast 3-5.

Try filling an order for 10 Cure Serious Wounds when you can only memorize 2 at a time. It's annoying at the best of times.

I'm not sure why a cleric can only brew 2 cure serious potions at a time unless they are level 5, and have a wisdom below 16.

Then, it's the build that is the problem, and not the current system.

Of course, if someone wants 10 potions of a third level spell, it's going to take a while. That reflects the power of those potions - so raise the cost for an order that is a pain in the ass and leaves you spell-less.

I'd suggest removing the XP penalty altogether for crafters. Really, what's the point of it? The more you brew or make wands, the better you should get, not worse.

I'm not sure why a cleric can only brew 2 cure serious potions at a time unless they are level 5, and have a wisdom below 16.

Perhaps because the crafter isn't a cleric? :wink:

Ohno,

Then it makes sense that a druid should only be able to make 2 cure serious potions instead of 10 like a Ilmateri cleric. Cure serious potions are in high demand. Wouldn't this let a level 6 ranger with 14 WIS make 10 cure serious potions as easily as a level 6 Ilmateri cleric who is a brewer with 18 WIS?

Why?

Druids have the advantage of being able to make barkskin potions/wands - which are always in high demand.

My opinion is, let's not lessen the advantage a true healer build has by creating an item that takes it away.

Snoteye

SkillFocuspwn This would have definate balance issues. In a single rest, a Healing domain could make about 100 CSW potions, which he would then sell for something like 500 for 10. This would net a massive profit and could effectively violently destroy the potion economy.

There has to be a market for those 100 CSW potions!

CSW are already being sold 10 for 500.

This is a good idea!

Bump. >_>

Gwydion Ohno,

Then it makes sense that a druid should only be able to make 2 cure serious potions instead of 10 like a Ilmateri cleric. Cure serious potions are in high demand. Wouldn't this let a level 6 ranger with 14 WIS make 10 cure serious potions as easily as a level 6 Ilmateri cleric who is a brewer with 18 WIS?

Why?

Druids have the advantage of being able to make barkskin potions/wands - which are always in high demand.

My opinion is, let's not lessen the advantage a true healer build has by creating an item that takes it away.

This is a very valid point.

Why not reduce the cost of the cauldron, and allow for the creation of 3-5 potions instead of 10. Ten is a very significant amount! Aside from that, the idea itself is pretty good!

Against. >_<

Supported and concurring with Garem's input.

I still like the idea of a level/primary spell casting ability based equation deciding the (max) number of potions brewable better. If only for complexity's sake. >.> Regardless, this was actually brought up in November as LaBrea promised, and it seems like at least a handful of the DMs are against it for not-entirely-clear reasons. My own stance is the same as originally.

Make it happen, please. (if you've time)

Gwydion: The issue is not that it would allow a druid to make as many healing potions as a very specialized cleric.

The problem that prompted this idea originally was this: It takes far too long to craft potions. I am regularly appoached and asked for 10 or more of any given potion. Let's ignore Cure Serious for the moment. Let's instead look at Barkskin.

As a level 8 druid I can cast a total of 4 barkskin every 30 minutes realtime. This means that I will now have to spend an hour and a half brewing those ten potions that one person wanted. Of course many people also want strength potions too. Same level spell. Assume they want ten, I'm now up to three hours to brew those 20 potions for one single person.

Three hours wherein I can do very little but wander around and hope to RP or just log off between casts and find something else to do. Why? I've just used some of my best buff spells in order to make potions. I'm not going to go questing without those.

The original intent of this idea was simple: Reduce time required by players in game to craft things so that we can get back to doing what's important. Playing the character.

As to concerns over flooding the market with hundreds of potions.... It won't happen. The gold has to be there to support it. Sure I could go craft 500 Barkskin potions. But it will take me days to unload them all. Perhaps weeks. The same problem applies with healing potions. Sure people use a lot of them, but if they can't afford them they simply won't buy them. I'd never be able to unload 100 serious healing potions in a day. It simply wouldn't happen. Maybe in a week.

Now, I can imagine that in November this was turned down simply for reasons of complexity. There were no dedicated scripters to even begin to think about this project, no matter how easy it may turn out to be. But I understand there are now a few more crafters. Perhaps this is now a possibility? Who knows.

I fully endorse this, still. Just a matter of a DM with the know-how taking the time to do this.

I still say "humph," like it matters.

Potion cauldrons have been added as of v1374. I didn't do a final test so keep an eye open for bugs, but it should work.

Oh my.

<3

Tasty.

Seems to work well. Love it. :)

So what does the cauldron do then - does it drop 10 into your bag or what? I bought one and it says I can craft 1 potion. There is nothing "settable" about it. I don't want to accidentally waste my money by doing it wrong.

If it says you can brew one potion, you can brew one potion.

Call me dense *cringes as the insults fly* but how is this different then from my character being able to craft a single potion the old fashioned way? Did I miss a discussion somewhere of the mechanics of the new cauldrons?

It's a pain to wait extended periods of time without the spells you've just used to make potions.

Professor Death Call me dense *cringes as the insults fly* but how is this different then from my character being able to craft a single potion the old fashioned way? Did I miss a discussion somewhere of the mechanics of the new cauldrons?

Hmm, I'm guessing we have to find and use a few IG to know how they work? I was thinking 2 levels per 1 extra potion would be good. 3/4 levels per 1 for healing potions if you're not a cleric/pally/whatever, just to keep the market even and squelch those few posts. 8)

L2 druid = 1 cast, 2 barkskin pots L3/4 druid = 1 cast, 2 healing pots

Professor Death Call me dense *cringes as the insults fly* but how is this different then from my character being able to craft a single potion the old fashioned way? Did I miss a discussion somewhere of the mechanics of the new cauldrons?

Use the Cauldron (right click, use) to open a dialogue with it to configure it. Select the number of potions to brew and then cast the spell on the cauldron. Boom. If you have enough bottles, you get a bunch of potions!

And to those still concerned about the market....

Markets with limited cash in the system have a great way of balancing themselves. Just craft as normal... People are still only going to buy what they can afford.

Yay. That explains it then. I think it was just unclear to me exactly what mechanics went into it. Voluminously clear now, thank you.

Snoteye

Professor Death Call me dense *cringes as the insults fly* but how is this different then from my character being able to craft a single potion the old fashioned way? Did I miss a discussion somewhere of the mechanics of the new cauldrons?

Sort of. It's the first post on this page.

Crud. I'm back again. It still seems to not be working right for me, OR (this is most likely) I STILL don't get how it works. I read Snoteye's explanation of spellcasting level determining the number you can get, but something just isn't adding up. I have LOTS of bottles, and a cauldron. As a 5th level paladin I ONLY had one potion available to me - I figured this was due to being level one as a caster. As a 6th level paladin, I'm still getting only a single potion available in the cauldron, although I now have two spell slots available. What gives?

Partly because your spell slots haven't got the farthest to do with how many potions you can brew, partly because paladins and rangers aren't recognized as spellcasters.

Snoteye Partly because your spell slots haven't got the farthest to do with how many potions you can brew, partly because paladins and rangers aren't recognized as spellcasters.

For sale: One cauldron. Slightly used. Going cheap. See Old Lady by the trash cart for more information. :cry: