All PvP in a Party Area requires a Dm.

No FD without some RP, no straight kill the fellow FD, even if it is a Kobold.

I officially am joining the "Use the edit button" commition. Use it. Now.

But, on your post, Kobolds are fun *because* you get FD'ed. What fun is a kobold if your not a 2nd class citisan?

I could make some decent kobold ideas if I knew I wouldn't get FD'd by some crazed gnomes and the like.

How does the fact that you are hated enough to kill on sight by some citizens make those ideas any less possible?

Don't use people FDing goblins/kobolds as a crutch to not play them, use it as your *reason* for playing them.

There is a kobold merchant outside of town. Try to FD him sometime. There were Shadow Tribe outside the gates at one point. Only PC kobolds are second class citizens, and the same is true of goblins.

IMHO, even in Lower, it would be as generally unacceptable to kill a goblin or a kobold as it is to kill a wild dog. If the thing goes rabid, put it out of its misery. Otherwise, let sleeping dogs lie.

Kobolds are monsters, dogs aren't.

Also, what the hell is a PARTY AREA? The grotto?

Parrrrty over here!

Real parties don't require DM permission to FD your drunk friend hanging all over your girlfriend.

Metro_Pack

Also, what the hell is a PARTY AREA? The grotto?

Im not sure, but i think he means quest areas outside of the city.

Metro_Pack Kobolds are monsters, dogs aren't.

That's just your opinion.

Vlaid How does the fact that you are hated enough to kill on sight by some citizens make those ideas any less possible?

Don't use people FDing goblins/kobolds as a crutch to not play them, use it as your *reason* for playing them.

Tell me. What on Earth is the point of spending a load of time playing a fantastic Kobold character, building In-Character relationships, leveling the character (With Kobolds, this tends to be difficult), and basically just working on improving it, when Urri Urdlen can just come along and slaughter you in a heartbeat, without even having an IC reason beyond "It's a kobold."

Another note-

Metro_Pack wrote: Kobolds are monsters, dogs aren't.

Essentually, it seems as though it's 'okay' to grief Kobold and Goblin PCs. As that's what it seems to be. True, no NPCs would step in to prevent some Kobold getting seriously maimed. But still, there is the Out-Of-Character courtesy that's being missed. Imagine you kill a, say... Half-Orc PC, for little reason than being an Elven cleric of Corellon. Now, that would most likely frustrate the player of the Half-Orc a great deal. It's exactly the same with Kobold/Goblin characters.

As for the "It's just a game" factor. Yeah, it is. People play this for entertainment. Say you've just gone from watching the greatest horror movie in history; the plot is amazing, the special effects simply to die for... Now your six-year-old daughter manages to change it to 'My Little Pony'. The remote breaks, you can't change it back that way, so you rush for the television. You try mashing the buttons, but some divine force prevents the channel changing back to the horror movie. That's kinda a bad example, true. But it's the feeling that is emitted when your character is killed without much reason, or RP beyond "DIE BEAST ! [attacks]".

Now, sorry for the rant. Don't honestly know what provoked me to write it...

To the post immediately above this:

It would be perfectly IC for a cleric of Corellon to hate half-orcs simply for being half-orcs.

Also, it is a myth that orcs or half-orcs are larger than an average man. For some reason NWN decided to make the model larger than the human model.

I'm just saying...

I think Blubie has that point. There is no reason to play a kobold or a goblin. You will survive until you get grieved. Simply put- it isn't any fun. I for one will never doit again.

Make note, I don't mind dieing. I don't even mind being pummeled and robbed every 20 seconds. But FD is used a bit to freely on this server- especially when it comes to these little critters. (Who can and have lived peacefully in Sanctuary for much longer then most half-orcs)

I'd just like to point out that

Howland Goblin/Kobold PCs do not receive some of the protections listed here. They, along with application subraces, can be targeted legitimately at any level just for being what they are.

Snoteye I'd just like to point out that

Howland Goblin/Kobold PCs do not receive some of the protections listed here. They, along with application subraces, can be targeted legitimately at any level just for being what they are.

In the end, it all comes down to: When you kill someone's character for no 'real' reason, you're wasting however much time they spend on the development of that character.

To A95, Blubie and Ebok:

Playing monster races or other "irredeemably evil" races like the drow isn't for everyone. The DMs have made that clear many times in the past. You might not appreciate the challenge, but there are people who do.

A little planning for the survival aspect goes a long way -- for instance, if you don't intend to play the character with some friends to team up with, don't expect to get far without stealth. There have been very successful PCs of these races in the past, both loners and whole clans, and I for one fully expect to see some more in the future.

I might even add from personal experience that there are effective IC ways to increase your chances of survival that have nothing to do with game mechanics. The current situation for these races is quite fine, in my opinion.

Metro_Pack Kobolds are monsters, dogs aren't.

It seems like, in most well role-played cases, there ought to be some reason to take pause when killing a goblin or a kobold. Something along the lines of, "what if it belongs to somebody?" or, "eww, you're going to get goblin blood on your clothes!"

If PC goblins and kobolds are kill-on-sight, then let's start docking points for every time someone buys potions from Lord Bunge. The -only- reason he and the other monster race merchants are not kill on sight is because they have a blue name floating over their heads.

I've never played one of these races, so this isn't about how tough of a gamer I am. I've got nothing to prove here. For me, this is about consistency and the preservation of immersion. Goblins, kobolds, and gnolls are generally left alone unless they have either green or red text above their heads, and even then, interacting with them is -always- preferable to killing them outright. I can think of at least five different occasions when my party killed a DM-posessed monster race and got severely punished for it.

Unless they are running at you with a weapon in hand, monster races are considered part of the scenery in the Underdark slave town known as Sanctuary. At least, that's the message I've always taken away from DMs and other players. If this is not the case, then I can think of a few NPCs who ought to get exterminated.

If you're going to be mean to someone just because there's a human being controlling the character, it seems to me like it's just as easy to be nice. As far as I can see, the kill-on-sight rule does not apply universally among PCs and NPCs.

I tend to agree that most of the time Kobold and Goblin characters should be viewed with indifference (In Lower) not open hostility. There are exceptions, but unless your particular character has some deep seeded reason for wanting every goblin exterminated, than they should be left alone in Lower.

my $0.02

-Kalos

:doublepost:

:shameless self-promotion:

It's really not THAT hard for a kobold to find some friends or evil cronies or just become a lackey to someone and hence gain some degree of protection, I must know since I've played many, many kobolds of dubious quality.

And Kith was close (well, not that close, but come on) to level 9 before he died, and not to a PC. So yeah. Don't even make me mention Witless' Quariks Holefang or whatever he was called!

:tnvw:

Also, Mxarob!

Sure, it's a challenge. That's the whole damn point! I love the challenge of playing something that could be killed on sight. It makes what little friends or diplomacy you do establish all the more meaningful.

Bottom line: If goblins/kobolds/monsters weren't killed on sight - even/especially in Lower - there'd be no point in playing them! Might as well stick to some robe-loving, staff-toting elf poofter.

Killing goblins and kobolds because they are goblins and kobolds: Yes

Doing it without RP, just running up to them and slaying them: No

Make the PvP fun for both, not just one person randomly attacking another.

That's what I think, anyway.

It's generally good form to offer some manner of them avoiding it.

"BEGONE, monster, or you'll grow to know the bad end of my warhammer!"

I am complaining that Kobolds get FDed (Or goblins) on sight, I mean, there is no chance for last words or notin, you just get killed.

Quest areas, I am saying that you -must- have a dm for you initiate -any- pvp.

(What is FDed?)

FD - Full Damage mode. When used as a verb it means sending people to Fugue, which happens when you have the mode on.

These monsters are fun to play because you could get killed out of no where. If it is not for you, it is not for you - feel free to enjoy the rest of the PC races.

In terms of the NPCs, many have been targeted by PCs and indeed an entire section of Sanctuary made up of (mostly) peaceful monster NPCs was wiped out by PCs. The surviving NPC monsters survive because they're relatively tough and take various precautions like bolt-holes and guards. But PC monsters could certainly take similar precautions, like getting allies and becoming strong.

It's a challenge, but a rewarding one, and it strikes me as a very bad idea to remove that fun challenge aspect which for many experienced players is a big draw. Many experienced players vastly prefer playing EfU on "hard-mode," because honestly it's pretty easy to roll up a regular-type PC, quest a little, and become a heroic adventurer in no time.

I am satisfied with our regulations regarding PvP in QAs. Basically, a DM is required in most instances unless something happens -during- the quest that requires immediate resolution and no DM can be found. So, for instance, if a party totally disintegrates and squabbles during a quest, that can be legitimately resolved through PvP -- but you can't use the excuse of a scripted quest as a way to get other PCs out in the middle of no where to mug them, without a DM.