Exactly what crafting is allowed on this server? With skill points being so dear I want to be absolutely positive I am investing them wisely. Armor and weapon crafting is purely cosmetic here, correct? What about trap crafting? I haven’t really seen any ingredients, but I also have not really been looking.

No item crafting is available at the moment. There is no crafting system yet.

Yet? Are there any plans to implement a crafting system? And if so, what would that mean for all the established folk? Maybe its just me, but I like not really being able to craft anything- keeps this place low magic and makes treasure real treasure.

Crafting Skill Points presently are just used for changing the appearance of weaponry/armor.

We do have plans for an enchantment crafting system that I think will be a lot of fun. It won't be done for a few weeks though.

Basically, here is a very abbreviated form:

There are items with sockets, a varying number of sockets (from 1 to 6 I think).

There are different "socket themes" -- i.e. Goblin Charms, Svirfneblin Gems, Orog Battle Runes, Duergar Markings, etc.

Socket Items can not be mixed from different themes on a single item.

Each socket item has a specific property (i.e. +1 acid damage, +1 ab vs. animal, +2 will) and can be placed in an item.

Socket Items will predominantly be found during the course of quests (raid the Orog Fort and steal their runes, etc.). Sockets can be placed in special forges -- the forge at the end of the Orog Fortress for instance, or secret svirfneblin forges in the Bowels.

Crafting to make the base socketed items is something we might conceivably do if the interest is there, as a player I detested crafting so it's hard to say.

Cool, I guess I just came from a really crafter-oriented string of servers. It got to the point where it was almost pointless to adventure, as everyone's best items were crafted and all your wealth came from selling crafted items to NPC stores. But if there could be some way to ensure the magic level stayed at its current level (say a Spellguard law of somesort because outsiders can detect the powerful magic in the items?) I would be ok with it. I just really wanted to know from the craft trap standpoint- seems I shouldnt invest any points in it just yet.

This is the idea as I originally presented it. The neat part is, you get most the stuff *from* adventuring and the DMs control it. So you don't have people who just sit around crafting and hoarding gold.

______________

I know the DMs mostly object to crafting, and frankly I hate it too. Its wretched.

However, I have an idea that lacks wretchedness that I wanted to use elsewhere. Essentially, using customizable weapons--especially if coupled with SetName.

The basic concept, drawn out and I have it very drawn out elsewhere so just a abstract here, is to have several forges scattered through the city that have magical gnomish properties. Various factions have them, and one is perhaps at the end of a quest through a dangerous and long abandoned druegar mine.

These forges allow the smelting of special magical regeants: varying for each forge. When the regeant is smelted or forged into a weapon it grants it a new property. Anyone can smelt a weapon if they pass a fairly easy craft attempt.

The regeants would not add any major power to a weapon or armor, but you get to choose what to add be it a simple +1 vs RACE or + 1 electric damage or +1 Listen.

The plus is that you can let the players customize their own loot, coupled with set name lets them even name it (Zazim's Kneepads of Persuasion) and choose/tailor powers to their character.

Using variables you can limit the number of properties items get, certain forges may check the number of added properties-some forges may be better than others etc.

The idea may work vaguely like this:

Spellguard Forge: (Learning to use some of the latent magic in ruined Animatron Octarine Cores, the spellguard can add unique enchantments to certain items: which incicently Spellguard NPCs will buy for 100 gold but a PC could get Spellguard PC's permission to use their forge instead.) The forge only can be activated by Animatron Octarine Cores which are only given out on DM quests. The forge can only add bonuses to Spellcraft, vs Outsiders, vs Constructs.

Svirneblin Master Forge: (An arcane forge, used by svirneblin in many expiraments; the forge is powered by using Flawless Emeralds which sell to certain NPCs for 300 gold each) The forge can only work on armor but can add any skill bonus (+1) or AC vs race. Gnomes using the forge may get a (+2) to the skill bonus.

Etc etc. I have more ideas drawn up than this, but was curious what the DMs thought.

I like it as is because now I can take favored items like the "Crusty Club" and slowly improve it over time. It'll still not be better than a +2 weapon of any kind that a DM could just hand out--but it'll always be *my* same Crustier Club.

Unlike crafting, its entirely in the DMs hands. You can give out less powerful loot by leaving a party with one flawless emerald for each member of the party rather than one magical treasure that they'll all sell off for a gold reward. If they still want the gold reward, they can sell the regeant to other PCs or NPCs making an economy for these items. Now you won't wind up with the richest PC just crafting anything he needs, he still needs to get it in game--even if he goes around buying every regeant though--he still can't improve all his gear that far.

Another way to implement it would be with this feature: sprocketed items.

Using this, you could let PCs craft sprocketed items. These will be not easy to make, but not too hard either. Creating a PC economy for them, but avoiding what I see as the biggest flaw of crafting ((Crafters can make shitloads of money and craft themselves very powerful gear generally)) since sprocketed items aren't good unless you take them to the forge and enchant them with a regeant and so they won't sell that high either to other PCs. The advantage here is that you can now say only sprocketed items can be thusly enchanted: which using SetName still allows you to make customized items by the PC.

A final twist you could do is that any item can hold say one regeant, but only sprocketed items can hold multiple regeants. Although, a DM could always set a variable again on any item that allows more regeants to go on it (say a DM likes that a players is still using his rusty dagger his PC first arrived in Sanctuary with and after the PC uses the dagger to cut the throat of Eldrith the Mighty Magical Thingy of Terror, the dagger suddenly gains the power to hold more regeants than its standard one).

Needless to say, I really like this idea. I've toyed with it in modules I DM'ed in the past although it got shot down on the last server I worked with; I forget why exactly.

Hm... not a bad approach- seems very well thought out. My only real worry would be the shift in weapon selection to all the 'power weapons' (longsword, greatsword, longbow- all the weapons with those slight statistical edges) because now people would be improving weapons instead of making creative use of what they find. I never thought some of the items I have found on here would ever be useful when I was on other servers- but now I have found uses for certain amulets, odd weapons (a sickle of all things!) and medium armor. But im sure you all have that covered somehow if the preliminary issues are this well conceived already. Also, maybe people already drift towards those power weapons anyways... I think I am just a humbug against crafting. Maybe if using a forge carried a risk of some backfire explosion and possible injury/death....

Yes, but then a DM can put out a dagger with five sockets. Making it better than a longsword with one. It all works out.

I concur. This system seems from what I have read about it to be both versatile and accomidating while limiting the overall power that a single crafter can hoard. It opens the fienld to crafting while contrilling the influx of crafted and powerful items to the game, and rewards players who may be exhibiting good rp and presence on the server. But most of all it allows me, as Oroborous stated, to keep -my- weapon, make it my own and my signature so to speak. Much better in the long run.

Just my two cents from my old beatup dixie cup.

I am starting to warm to it somewhat... I figure this place has been so well run up to this point there no way they are going to throw the balance out of wack. But would this system need the Bioware crafting skill points to make weapons and armor? Also, are traps still a no go?

The general idea seems nice, and has a lot of possibility to it. But I'd like to bring up some points against it. First, I'm worried about the development of a component hunt. From my experience, those drain the life right out of a server. Focus shifts from character motivations to obtaining little items. Might be part of the reagents will be DM granted, but if any are randomly found or scripted quest rewards... I foresee problems. Second, I honestly dislike, and always have, the idea of "laymen"-enchantments. When players are given the ability to create their own magical items, a very basic principal of economy comes into play - devaluation. The more common something is, the more common the method to obtain it is, the lower its value. To counter that, I would suggest an "elitist" method - That the process itself will include an NPC "specialist", to conduct the actual enchantment. Third, I'd just like to point out that DM granted items will always have more character to them than crafted items. :) You just can't beat a custom description.

I agree. I completly abhore the crafting system, and have always found items with special properties were better suited as a DM reward or perk through quests and plot development rather than player created.

First, I'm worried about the development of a component hunt. From my experience, those drain the life right out of a server. Focus shifts from character motivations to obtaining little items.

My greatest hatred for crafting. It's implementation immediately creates characters that are "item driven" rather than plot driven. At least that's been my experience with it when I was involved with another server. Also, it completly cheapened DM-given loot found on quests or through plots.

However, the alternatives presented do seem slightly less repugnent, given the reliance on DM granted "pieces" to complete crafting and the focus on minor enchantments.

True, and if a DM wanted to reward someone for using their trusty (if not somewhat rusty) dagger, why not just replace it with a DM-improved dagger and take the old one away? Its also going to be somewhat fishy when a rogue happens to 'find' a crafted weapon named for its maker and then attempts to resell '(player name)'s favorite dagger' on the market.

Something to keep in mind is that the bonuses from these items will be very minor, but when combined allow players to make neat and customized loot for themselves. There will be no +1 charm. There will be, instead, perhaps +1 AB vs. goblins -- perfect for that goblin-hating ranger, or something else.

It simply is not conceivable for me to give every deserving character on the server some well-deserved magical loot. As a player, it's nice to have a character with his own set of relatively unique equipment, and that's essentially what this system is designed to provide while not being 100% reliant on DM loot.

As planned, this will be a gold sink (an important aspect of any PW, to prevent gold from becoming meaningless) but not reliant on simply who has the most gold, but rather tied into our quests.

Maybe I shouldn't have let the cat of the bag on this one so early, all I can say is that I hope players will trust the instincts of the DM team on this one -- I think it will be cool and not break the balance of the game.

Howland Something to keep in mind is that the bonuses from these items will be very minor, but when combined allow players to make neat and customized loot for themselves. There will be no +1 charm. There will be, instead, perhaps +1 AB vs. goblins -- perfect for that goblin-hating ranger, or something else.

Howland

It simply is not conceivable for me to give every deserving character on the server some well-deserved magical loot. As a player, it's nice to have a character with his own set of relatively unique equipment, and that's essentially what this system is designed to provide while not being 100% reliant on DM loot.

But that’s what I love, most every PC on here is an awesome, dynamic force and should be rewarded- but what these PCs have at their disposial down here should be shaped by their environment, not vice versa. That ranger may hate goblins, but when he finds a sword that slays kobolds better he may have to adapt to the harsh nature Underdark and find a way to deal with what hand he was delt. I feel everyone shouldn’t have their own unique weapon, King Arthur had Excalibur, but everyone else at the round table seemed to not have a named sword. Also, DM loot giving would risk becoming DM crafting policing, and suddenly the neat quest items are simply crafting components, forcing everyone to either craft or get left behind.

tib I am starting to warm to it somewhat... I figure this place has been so well run up to this point there no way they are going to throw the balance out of wack. But would this system need the Bioware crafting skill points to make weapons and armor? Also, are traps still a no go?

Configuring socket items will use the boiware craft weapon and craft armor skills. They will have several effects on the process, but I don't want to go into it much at the moment.

Think of craft trap more as Engineering skill. At this point you aren't able to use it to make traps, but it it useful for a couple of other things at the moment, and that list will get bigger.

Thrawn made me change my mind- If it goes by Crafting Skill, it'll probably be better than what I originally thought of the concept. I think it may just turn out to be a very well balanced system, and I'll trust the DM's judgement on this one.

I am leery of it, because I dont like crafting systems all that much. But it seems the DMs here share that view a bit so I am beginning to trust that the fears I have about implementing such a system are shared by them. Would crafted weapons be allowed to be renamed after creation?

tib

But that’s what I love, most every PC on here is an awesome, dynamic force and should be rewarded- but what these PCs have at their disposial down here should be shaped by their environment, not vice versa. That ranger may hate goblins, but when he finds a sword that slays kobolds better he may have to adapt to the harsh nature Underdark and find a way to deal with what hand he was delt. I feel everyone shouldn’t have their own unique weapon, King Arthur had Excalibur, but everyone else at the round table seemed to not have a named sword. Also, DM loot giving would risk becoming DM crafting policing, and suddenly the neat quest items are simply crafting components, forcing everyone to either craft or get left behind.

This system will still keep the balance much like it is. I'm going to be bad and leak a few more details about how we are designing this. These are hypothetical examples, so don't hold us to these specific cases, since most of this will be wrong. The process should resemble this, but is subject to change as well.

Step 1: The Quest

On a DM quest, a party finds three orog runestones, meant to go into a socketed item. One of the stones would give a weapon +1 ABvs gnomes. Another one gives +1 vs poison saves. The third rune gives a weapon +1 bludgeoning damage. The three people in the party, a wizard, a rogue, and a barbarian, decide to keep the runes together as a party and go see what they can make with them.

Step 2: Acquiring the Item

The rogue volunteers that he has a dagger that contains a +1 move silent charm on it and still has an open slot for another charm. Unfortunately, Orog runes and goblin charms can't mix, so they must find another item to work with. The wizard says he remembers seeing a merchant in Fort Mur that sold Orog Axes and Flails. The party travels to Fort Mur. The party has to decide whether to buy an axe or flail, or whether to wait until they can find items someone else other than the barbarian can use. They settle on buying a greataxe for the barbarian, although they can only get one that holds 2 runes. The rogue decides to keep the +1 poison save rune to save until he can find something to put it in.

Step 3: The Forging

Now with the slotted orog greataxe and the other two runes, they will have to find an orog forge to make use of them. The wizard lets the party know he took weapon crafting, and that he remembers hearing the orogs had a forge in a big fortress. The party gets more help, they quest to the fortress, and while at the forge inside, the wizard and barbarian take the time to place the runes in the item. The wizard succeeds in getting the +1 bludgeoning rune into the axe, but the barbarian fails with the +1 AB vs gnomes rune. They will have to try again with that rune at some other time.

So as you can see, it won't be a free system where you build whatever you want. Although the system gives the players more freedom, it really is designed to create more demand for things, more storylines, and more opportunities. It think it will fit right into the system, and shouldn't harm the balance.

tib I am leery of it, because I dont like crafting systems all that much. But it seems the DMs here share that view a bit so I am beginning to trust that the fears I have about implementing such a system are shared by them. Would crafted weapons be allowed to be renamed after creation?

After the next patch, this should be possible. We are still waiting for a date on that. Hopefully my outline above removes any fears of how crafting will ruin the balance of things.

It is beginning to calm my fears... and give me devious ideas. Could crafting work both ways? Could I 'uncraft' someone's weapon and break it down to possibly steal its runes? I picture an underground weapon 'chop shop' operation...

It's been brought up, but that feature is unlikely. I think it will probably be a one way process, or if we did allow the other direction, it would have very high crafting DC's.

Yea... I figured it would be difficult to implement- my brain was just starting to run ahead of myself. This system seems to have some good points to it... could a use of persistant storage show up as well? It would seem really risky to be walking around with all those runes all the time.

My real fear is that magic "slottables" will become some sort of often traded item, thus causing a devaluation. Visions of Final Fantasy style weapons come to mind, rather negatively. But... here's to hoping.

Do the scribe scroll, brew potion, and craft wand feats work?

Nimbul Do the scribe scroll, brew potion, and craft wand feats work?

Yes.