Persistant blade is now 1 round per level vs other summons that are 3 round per level.

Now persistant blade isnt as powerful as you may believe.

1) It only does 1d4 damage like a normal dagger 2) It DOES have 5/- damage resistance but this is only to physical damage, any other type of elemental damage kills it quickly (including level 0 cantrips) 3) It only has 4 hitpoints. (other summons have more)

That means whenever something does over 5 damage in a melee hit to it, it's hurting.. and if it gets hit for 9 or over in one hit. it's instantly destroyed.

Another way to balance it would be to introduce a DAGGER as a material component for the spell.

The name itself means that it should be persistant BEYOND a normal summon.. probably not much more. So it really should be slightly longer than the 3 rounds/level for normal summons.

I'd suggest a buffer duration on the beginning so it's 4 rounds + 2 rounds per level. (ie 6 rounds at level 1, 8 at level 2, 10 at level 3 etc) That means it's usable at level 1 as it is... and then gets longer in duration slightly with the casters experience (even though it's quickly superceded by higher summons)

(note: shelgarn is currently bugged I think, extend metamagic does not function on it's duration)

p.s. I think durations for ALL summons (and in fact all duration spells) should be in the form X clicks + Y clicks per caster level. This allows for a usable minimum and also a guaranteed improvement on caster level. X is always greater than Y. (e.g. summon badger might be 4 rounds +2 rounds per level, mage armor might be 3 turns + 1 turn per level )

Actually, I'm not even sure it has DR. I've seen rats and bats kill it.

It might have been changed here then... the old shelgarn's blade was a 4 hitpoint construct with dr 5/- and did 1d4 damage.. with an armor class of 14 or so.

Alotta work for a level 1 spell which are generally weak, even the lower summons don't have much more hp. Is there really much of any point to it? Since I don't think many will use it even after its changed.

I love using that spell, its just neat visually. However, like I said when a flock of bats kill it before it makes an attack its just not helpful.

Shelgarn's Blade is awesome.

It doesn't have DR on EftU. It isn't even labelled as construct and is thus subject to sleep or daze or fear which is kind of silly - but maybe it has already been fixed.

If duration hasn't been changed in the last month, it is fully sufficient, that saying, above level 3 or 4.

The DR and the construct properties would be welcome, though.

I don't think it would be more powerful than the rest of 1st level spells - it's all matter of knowing which spell when to use.

It might also be nice to upgrade it as the caster increases in level. Like, at level 4 it becomes a longsword, at level 7 it becomes a bastard sword, and at level 10 it becomes a greatsword. But I really like the idea of needing a spell component for it; maybe using the weapon you carry, then giving that weapon to an invisible sword-wielding NPC until the spell is over or it dies, in which case you lose the weapon.

But maybe that's too silly. ^_^;

DR + immunities + d4 damage would definately make it more powerful than level 1 summons.

I'll take a look at the spell, eventually. Just honestly not too high on the fix list.

DR+Immunities+one round per level (no less than 2 rounds) seems fair to a maximum of 10 rounds.

A magic missile does a no save 1d4+1 damage at first. 2d4+2 at third. 3d4+3 fifth.

Compare that to a Shelgarn's Blade that must score an attack hit, and can't bypass magic resistance unless you buff it up with other spells. It will only be doing 1d4 damage maybe every other round. At certain levels, it'll be as good as or with good rolls slightly better than magic missile but overall will remain capable of doing much less damage.

The benefit to the spell becomes the DR and its ability to hold off a few foes while the mage uses spells. So the shorter duration is helping since you can't get off that many spells and thereby can't plough your way through a small horde of enemies.

Doing damage isn't what it's for. It both attracts foes, and sucks up enemy spells. That's what I've always used it for.

I also have to consider it's place in the realm of using summons as henchmen.

lovethesuit It might also be nice to upgrade it as the caster increases in level. Like, at level 4 it becomes a longsword, at level 7 it becomes a bastard sword, and at level 10 it becomes a greatsword.

It can only suck up one enemy spell with its HPs.

Especially if its given its DR and say 3 HP. That means that an average single Ray of Frost will destroy it. Currently, without its abilities, its even succeptible to sleep attacks.

Dolorous Edd

lovethesuit It might also be nice to upgrade it as the caster increases in level. Like, at level 4 it becomes a longsword, at level 7 it becomes a bastard sword, and at level 10 it becomes a greatsword.

I believe there are several higher level spells that fulfill that purpose.

Which purpose? I don't agree about immunities, DR, all that stuff; I just like the idea of summoning self-wielding weapons. :)

lovethesuit Which purpose? I don't agree about immunities, DR, all that stuff; I just like the idea of summoning self-wielding weapons. :)

Those are level 7 and level 9 spells respectively. :(

lovethesuit Those are level 7 and level 9 spells respectively. :(

Like a poster above said it shouldnt be more powerful than other 1st level spells..

And it isnt.. 4 hitpoints even with dr 5 doesnt keep it alive long, believe me I've used it a lot on other servers.

I havent yet seen any of the other summon "themes" you can get with summon monster. SO I cant speak about how it compares.

I think the duration should at least be equal in duration to Summon Monster 1. Summons do NOT , and should not be the same.. they should be different.. there should be MORE differentiating them than simply their display model. They should have different strengths and weaknesses , as should all creatures, it keeps the variety up there.

I spend a LOT of the time at low levels.. I play a lot of character, I almost like making new characters as much as I like playing so I'm not likely to get up to the high levels where most balancing seems to be done.

Thats why I am concerned when some spells are almost useless.. everything should have some use at the level it's given. Theres usually enough people HIGH LEVEL balancing spells on a server, but theres often not enough balancing for new/low level characters. :)

chaosprism Like a poster above said it shouldnt be more powerful than other 1st level spells..

And it isnt.. 4 hitpoints even with dr 5 doesnt keep it alive long, believe me I've used it a lot on other servers.

That solely depends on what creatures you let it fight. Never will you EVER see a Rat, Dire or otherwise, even hurt this baby. On the other hand, if a Gnoll would sneeze on it, it's downed. 5/+1 is extreme in some cases (Say, rats) and absolutely worthless in other cases (Say, Gnolls). Therefore it should just depend on the type of foe you fight. You can farm Ratmeat with 5/+1 until the spell runs out. Not good, in my opinion.

That's why the duration is relatively short and on the higher levels where it becomes longer it does not matter anymore since you cannot farm the ratmeat anyways.

Shelgarn's blade definitely should have immunity to purely physical damage - it's pure energy shaped into the form of a blade, after all!

Immunity pure physical damage would be a no-go, but a high DR versus physical damage would be a yes-go, according to PnP. In PnP there's a feat (Sunder) that allows you to destroy your opponents weapon. However, it would be very unbalancing in Efu.

Coldburn

chaosprism Like a poster above said it shouldnt be more powerful than other 1st level spells..

And it isnt.. 4 hitpoints even with dr 5 doesnt keep it alive long, believe me I've used it a lot on other servers.

That solely depends on what creatures you let it fight. Never will you EVER see a Rat, Dire or otherwise, even hurt this baby. On the other hand, if a Gnoll would sneeze on it, it's downed. 5/+1 is extreme in some cases (Say, rats) and absolutely worthless in other cases (Say, Gnolls). Therefore it should just depend on the type of foe you fight. You can farm Ratmeat with 5/+1 until the spell runs out. Not good, in my opinion.

So the summon is really good against, what one creature of how many? I'm sure theres other way to do well against rats. If those rats did even 1 point of elemental damage and no physical , the blade wouldnt last long at all.

You have to realise that some things SHOULD be good in certain situations.. they just shoudlnt be good in all of them, thats when they're imbalanced. Theres a lot of things you can do anyway, a small change to the AI would mean that the rats wouldnt ALL congregate on one target, in fact AI wise it's likely the rats would ignore an energy blade and go straight for the edible things in the party like the caster!!. Theres a whole swath of natural or semi-natural creatures that would likely ignore (or even avoid) something strange like an energy blade and go for their normal prey something living.If the blade actually hit them though they might decide it was a threat and not just something bizarre floating there.

The real question here isn't is the spell where it needs to be, but more aptly why would any self respecting evoker create a minute 4-6 inch planar blade of force when there are other more flashy projectile spells out there to damage the enemy.

Yeah, sure they may be a one shot deal, but come on...anything that glows and shoots out at something and or explodes is much cooler than a dagger, even if it does float there.

On a more constructive note immunity to the mind effects would be nice, but I couldn't see putting in DR. That's a little too much for a first level spell to me.

chaosprism Theres a lot of things you can do anyway, a small change to the AI would mean that the rats wouldnt ALL congregate on one target, in fact AI wise it's likely the rats would ignore an energy blade and go straight for the edible things in the party like the caster!!. Theres a whole swath of natural or semi-natural creatures that would likely ignore (or even avoid) something strange like an energy blade and go for their normal prey something living.If the blade actually hit them though they might decide it was a threat and not just something bizarre floating there.

AI is not an easy thing to change in NWN. You can't do much about standard creatures, and AI changes have lag components. Basically, this isn't a viable solution.

The Beggar The real question here isn't is the spell where it needs to be, but more aptly why would any self respecting evoker create a minute 4-6 inch planar blade of force when there are other more flashy projectile spells out there to damage the enemy.

Yeah, sure they may be a one shot deal, but come on...anything that glows and shoots out at something and or explodes is much cooler than a dagger, even if it does float there.

On a more constructive note immunity to the mind effects would be nice, but I couldn't see putting in DR. That's a little too much for a first level spell to me.

What do you mean PUTTING in? it was taken out ;)

As for self-respecting evokers.. sure the evokers probably arent going to use this evocation spell much themsleves, it's probably the other sorts of wizards that are more likely to use it.

I'll say it again.. with 4 hitpoints.. dr 5 is nothing.

Ghostly visage is a good spell which does grant dr 5 but no intelligent wizard is going to go melee on 4 hitpoints with a creature with it on. (which the blades do tirelessly)

On a side note.. 4 hitpoints without DR is completely pointless.

All you have to do is USE the thing and you'll see.

Idea.

Shelgarn's Persistant Blade is actually an animated dagger.

Magic Weapon, Darkfire, Flame Weapon anyone?

I wouldn't know if it could be implemented, but adding Weapon Enchantments to the summon would make it better.

You should be able to cast those on it already.