For a person who has lost 60+ characters to either PvP, or the usual "Damn't! I am sick of the crappy losses!" Of monstrous spawns, listen to these words of wisdom.

1), It pays to have friends in high places to raise you.

2) It is alright, for it is just a game, and people don't hate you, they hate your guy.

3) "I Spent Weeks lvling this guy up, making him prominent, and this fellow goes and Kill him!" And? We all made characters we loved, and they all died, eventually. So making that arguement just shows how unthoughtful you are.

4) FD, use it only as a last resort, unless you plan to deal with the tell saying, "WHY DID YOU KILL ME!?"

5) If there was a reason to kill you, don't complain, be glad someone actually took notice of your bounty and did something about it.

6) I know I didn't cover all points, but death should be taken in a calm, reserved manner, hells, I found a glorious death hell of a lot more fun than surviving week after week by intentionally avoiding PvP.

Words of wisdom, brought by someone you all know, is not wise.

I have to admit, death does annoy me on this server, mostly because I find the punishment for dying so bloody harsh. I finally got above lvl 3 not so long ago, after two deaths that kept sending me back down to lvl 2, and last night I died and fell back to lvl 3 again! I have to admit, when I joined up I didn't expect the server to be so hardcore!

Still, it was amusing to turn that OOC annoyance into IC rage, as my character began accusing the rest of his party of racism, of them only watching out for their own kind (he's an argumentative blockhead and has been known to pick fights, even if his reasons have no solid grounding).

Everyone's done it. Died in a totally stupid way, got REALLY pissed off and written their I'M LEAVING THIS SERVER 4EVAR. And yes this server is merciless. It can be really soul destroying to have to Perma a char you put so much work into just like that. But all it does is make it more satisfying when you do achieve something. Good Post TNVW STICKY PLZ

Dying sucks. Period. The penalties to re-spawning are so dis-heatening to me that I only play "perma-death" here. Just recently I reached 6th level with a character for the first time, only have him die fighting some gnolls (I need to learn when to retreat), and I can't bear the pain of the XP loss to respawn. (My only regret is that when I die, I'm not there to see people fighting over my stuff...)

But my point is, I like it that way. People should die in the Underdark. It is a hostile unforgiving place. I think it is often unfair to the party you play with that if you die, suddenly you bounce back to life. Its espescially disenchanting when it is more than one character.

For example, during a quest I was on recently three members of our party charged ahead of the group and were subsequently surrounded and killed. After much effort the rest of us were able to dispatch the enemies and suddenly these "dead" characters were only near death (even though they had been surrounded by enemies for at least 15 RL minutes.

In my opinion, if you die through a fault of your own (i.e - in combat, trip over a trap, etc.) you should not respawn. If your party can not ressurect you (or afford to have you rez'd) you should be dead. I mean to die you must go to -10 HP, that's dead baby. Respawn should be reserved for instances of death do to lag, or some other quirk that lead to your demise.

To re-iterate the point of this thread, Take death like a man (or woman) and move on. Yea it sucks that you put so much effort in and died, but hey, that's life. My advice...don't die in the first place ;)

As for PvP....running is always a good option ;)

I will be honest though on this server i came to really dislike PVP in itself nothing to do with the rules but any time i was involved in any i just disliked it.

If someone dies to an NPC though they can choose to respawn just because you choose not too doesn't mean that you should tell others that they should do the same .... if i die on a quest am dead for Fifteen minutes then decide to respawn what diffrence does that make to anyone else.

Death is an inevitability here, and it comes much sooner then on most servers. That said, it is your story, re spawn as much as you like, as long it is not DM or PC perma, you get to choose when that story ends. Thomas said it best, it is in the end, a game. Perhaps a hobby, for we all usually invest alot of ourselves (time, creativity, et all) in the char's we play. But still, a game, and you can have that next great concept waiting in the wings, and if your char lives for what may be considered long on this server, odds are you have some already thought up. So to you (the plural you), I wish a good death, and a great next incarnation.

This might seem 'offensive', but it is taken from another website! I just found it funny :mrgreen:

http://www.karashur.net

Carebearitis - The Black Plague of the Online Gaming Community

Carebearitis - A disease which has consumed the online gaming community. The common symptoms are:

* Avoiding player versus player encounters at any cost * Constantly complaining through forums and within the chosen game about trivial matters

Associating roleplayers with carebears is a common mistake in my opinion. Why? Well, we are all roleplaying as soon as we load up the online game. Unless you walk around your neighborhood killing every dog you see and looting $5-$10 from their corpse, you are roleplaying. You can be an evil roleplayer. In fact, many people use the "evil roleplayer" excuse to grief others without getting banned. As long as your text sounds like you are roleplaying, you can get away with it.

So why is player versus player combat looked at in such a negative viewpoint?

In a lot of cases, players that are new to the game are killed relentlessly by the "wannabe" elite pvpers. (Killing those that have no chance whatsoever doesn't make you elite) Many of these victims are then traumatized and avoid all direct combat with other players. When other players grief them by spitting on their corpse or "raping" them, that only makes matters worse.

Why is this a bad thing? Online games are meant for player interaction. You can get a healthy dose of "player interaction" by joining a large clan and hunting creatures all day. At the end of the day, you are still mindlessly attacking artificial intelligence. AI will never reproduce the reactions, movements, and abilities of another human being. Conflict is what keeps the online community alive. There are many clans, communities and mmorpgs that simply survive because of online rivalries and much needed revenge.

If developers and gamers (carebears) would realize the significance of player vs player interaction, the developers wouldn't need to constantly create tons of digital crack(items) to keep us satisfied.

So, what is the cure for carebearitis? Most people won't win every encounter. It seems like society has created this "everyone is a winner" attitude. It makes people hate/deny mistakes. I've heard every excuse in the book when it comes to why someone lost a battle. Don't make excuses! Just look at every loss as a learning experience. Take the steps to find others who are willing to teach you how to become good in player versus player encounters. Write down the names of the people who think they are the best of the best by killing you when you are a lowbie..and return the favor multiple times over once you are strong enough.

Every failure should be considered a rich opportunity for learning what doesn't work, and why.

Trying out pvp for the first time reminds me of the story of Thomas Edison's early attempts to come up with the right material for a lightbulb. He tried a thousand different elements and all had failed. A colleague asked him if he felt his time had been wasted, since he had discovered nothing.

"Hardly," Edison is said to have retorted briskly. "I have discovered a thousand things that don't work."

Who knows what we would be using for light if it wasn't for the focused effort of Edison.

I think all pvpers can relate to the adrenaline rush you get when you are new to player versus player encounters. You don't know how things will turn out. Sometimes it is paralyzing, but as you gain more practice it will be second nature.

I can feel the hate-mail. The Carebear Coalition is slowly recognizing the threat of Karashur.net. The pitchforks have been sharpened! If you would like to leave me a message, pm me on the forums. For those of you who read this article with an open mind, welcome to the club. In the meantime, keep killing, keep grinding, and try something new for a change. Who knows how much fun you will have?

I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward.

- T. A. Edison

Yes death happens to all of us.

I don't mind death so much when I realize it was because of a bad choice of mine during a quest, DM arranged or otherwise.

The reason I avoid pvp is because of death, this is true.

But it's not because I dislike death...it's because I've never ever WON a pvp encounter. Not even a tame non-death duel in the arena.

I just simply am no good at pvp. I simply cant get my mind to think in a way like that. So for me, PvP = Death 100% of the time.

For me knowing that my character is going to certain death is really not fun if it's not within his goals to do so.

So as far as death goes, I am fine with it as long as that's the direction and goal that I'm going for. If it comes out of the blue from some other player, it's not fun.

Usually because the person is just "I'm here to kill you!" *attacks*. There's no RP, no history, no nothing.

One of my paladins died that way and that was really not fun at all. It had no build up, no chance for me to RP at all, it was pathetic, and no fun.

Some people might not know this but here we go, wether or not you want to PvP. Your actions decide your fate! If your a goody goody paladin that is proactive on slaying every evil creature in Sanctuary, you're not going to be very much liked by team evil.

Likewise if you're going to be a pain in the neck to old sanctuary, eventually they're going to hire out PC's to KILL, Yes thats right KILL YOU!

One of the DM teams top priority is to encourage player interaction, so if your becoming a big bad warlord for example, more and more people will want to interact in both good and bad ways. DM's will also encourage this in good and bad ways for your character depending on your ACTIONS!

So if you ain't liking PvP too much, keep your head down, don't take sides publically and most importantly keep a supply of items on you that will help you if rothe crap does hit the fan.

Just to re-iterate, if you are a righteous, PvP loving paladin, expect team evil to have at you. When I played my Malar cleric, he got the ledskir's pissed and they hired an assasin to kill him, It wasn't a PvP fight, it was a half orc setting off the lightning traps that killed him. With Frum for Example, I fought when I could of ran, but his death was something I expected.

Every PvP has the possibility of permanently ending your character. Do not run away from it though, PvP is what keeps the server alive for me, not lvling or getting awesome loot, it is the interactions I get when one of my characters becomes a back yard murderer and people placing bounty's on my head. People should enjoy the RP when possible, and PvP should be a last resort.

No Thomas. if a player does not want to participate in PvP then fair enough... My post was simply implying that evil NPC's may or may not have connection's with PC's. So if for arguements sake you killed a NPC member of a up and coming daemonic cult with PC members in. Expect the PC members of the cult to come hunting you down.

Just think what your PC actions might cause other PC's to do if you killed this NPC, if you get killed in PvP because of your actions and lack of thought. Don't start crying and having a hissy fit.

As far as I'm concerned, only the player of the character ought to have final word on whether his character is permanently dead. At least, that's how I think it should be, and is not necessarily how it is.

Assassinations are a prospect that bother me. While they could be done exceptionally well, too often it's just a case of playing the Gank game, where the assassin appears out of nowhere, fully buffed, kills the target in two rounds, steals their body, and destroys it, permanently ending a rich character in a matter of seconds, and prohibiting any kind of interesting conflict afterward, because, generally speaking, there aren't any clues to be found. I'm not saying assassinations are easy; just that I think they're easier to do perfectly than they are to do in a way that's fun for everybody involved.

That said, I'm not for PCs living forever. Every story is supposed to have an ending, and when a character just walks around, never actually accomplishing anything, the player needs to start to think "Hey, I should start looking for a cool way to end this character, or stop playing him altogether and find something to add more to the server." Even if all the character does add, is a little more depth to the story of Sanctuary.

My problem never seems to be PVP, simply because I don't go out of my way to get into PVP (because I'm bloody useless at it). I always get gang-banged by mobs on quests, mostly because Gursek's a total meathead who'll charge straight into a fight. By rights he should be dead several times over.

I'm not eager to let him die just yet, not even because of his own bloodlust. I do have an idea for another character, but it needs an application, and I've not been here long enough to warrant trying to apply for such a character. That's why I want to hold onto Gursek for the time being; I simply haven't got an idea for a suitable, non-app replacement for him yet.

Kotenku As far as I'm concerned, only the player of the character ought to have final word on whether his character is permanently dead. At least, that's how I think it should be, and is not necessarily how it is.

I disagree with this, because with 90% of the characters, 90% of the time, the answer regardless of situation will invariably be no.

DjSpectre The reason I avoid pvp is because of death, this is true.

This is a good thing. efU has managed something that not every server does. Which is create a fear of death. And although the motivation between hypothetical character (not wanting to die) and player (not wanting to lose xp and levels) the outcome is identical and create real character who actually fear death and thus imbues a level of reality above the servers that have death as a much less scarier prospect. As opposed to "KILL THE DRAGON FOR HEEEEEEELM" the response is much more "OMFG DRAGON I'm going to find a tree to hind behind" which can become MUCH more entertaining.

Kotenku Assassinations are a prospect that bother me. While they could be done exceptionally well, too often it's just a case of playing the Gank game, where the assassin appears out of nowhere, fully buffed, kills the target in two rounds, steals their body, and destroys it, permanently ending a rich character in a matter of seconds

That's what makes assasinations good. It creates paranoia. If someone knows he's not popular, he's suddenly motivated to invest in a bodyguard, check his soup before tasting it. The sheer deadliness of an assasination is only mirrored by how hard it is to get a good assasain going. Assasain characters that are fast and deadly are VERY rare make assasinations uncommon and so when they happen they are very cool.

Maybe assassinations should be more Batman-esque (taken from that TV show) where the villian plans to kill Batman with a diabolical trap/device and then, after putting him in the device, walks away confident Batman will be killed...

:P

I'm surprised by the comments that allude to the penalties of death on this server being harsh. I must have played on all the wrong servers before this one. I give the DM's and server Kudos for the following facts: (a) your pack doesn't drop when you're merely bleeding to death, and thus you avoid unnecessary inventory tetris (b) you can respawn where you fell, (c) you only lose 1/3 XP if you re-spawn vs. being raised.

As to all the other comments, I have but one reply: everybody is different. I don't think there's one "right way" and "wrong way" to deal with death, and I don't think everybody has to have a "certain attitude" toward PvP and/or death.

What works for one person may be a game spoiler for someone else. Live and let live - pursue the things IG that are fun for you, and let others pursue the things IG that are fun for them.

I would apply the same philosophy to other issues people have, such as the divvying-up of loot. Some people like a system of "rolling" a selection order, some people like to "call out" what they want, etc. There's no "right way" or "wrong way" for everybody, only a "right way" and "wrong way" for you.

You didn't always keep your pack when dropped to bleeding/subdued. That was always interesting when someone got subdued in Lower in the street and the vultures would come out of the woodwork.

Also, the ability to respawn where you died is by far the best death mechanic I have seen on any NWN server to date. It lets you keep playing, but gives you a harsh penalty. Personally, I prefer being able to keep playing over getting a raise in most cases.

Ever played on CoA? The naked run of shame through town to get back to your corpse every time is such an immersion breaker to me(even with less harsh xp penalties on death) :D

I like the harsh XP penalties. It makes the people who get to higher levels all that much more special, and gives the server that 'barely scraping by on the skin of your nutsack' feel.

<3<3<3 for EFU's death system.

I have had well over 200 characters by now (not a long-term guy)

Here is the best advice I can give you after months and months of EFU-

Become good at PvP. Become prepared for PvP. Hover a finger over the invisibility at all times.

PvP WILL happen, even if you play a super-friendly 18 CHA guy. PvP is really the only thing you need to be good at since it's the only death that can be frustrating. Other deaths? Bah, respawn. Or enjoy your end. After a bit of practice you'll never ever die on quests, and if you do, bah, respawn. The deaths you have to "fear" are from PvP and from DMs, like on an epic quest. The latter are usually always very satisfying- usually, a char isn't really "complete" until he dies, after all. And the PvP ones? Well, just avoid them by becoming good at it!

Tip: Follow Witless like a puppy.

It's really not all that hard to survive EfU up to a certain point. Just don't play like you're immortal. Know your place in the party and stick to it. Spend your money on Healing, Invisibility, Blur but also on Seeing and other such PvP supplies. Jasede is right, PvP WILL come to you at one point, and you better be ready. Even potions of Expeditious Retreat do a lot. Don't walk around alone when you're vulnerable if you can prevent it and don't go exploring on your own without a hide/ms score reaching close to 20. Stay away from Spiders when you do or have a finger above your F12 - Invisibility!

Hey, have you read this too? https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/15/15073/why-characters-die-the-true-story/index.html

- Witless Entertainment

Become good at PvP. Become prepared for PvP. Hover a finger over the invisibility at all times.

I AGREE lol you are so right and its beautiful