I've played two kobolds and about four goblins, trying to make a 'succesful' monster, but I've been looking at an excerpt from the 3.5 manual and have been thinking:would a Kobold or Goblin be better with the real stats? It seems with the hides that the builders could adjust it accordingly.

I believe they get the normal Halfling ability adjustments.. +2 Dexterity and -2 Strength

But here are the Kobold/Goblin character's stats:

Kobold_____________________________ -4 Strength, -2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity +4 to Hide Checks, +2 Search Checks (Racial) Small Stature: +1 AC, +1 Bonus Attack Roll Light Sensitivity Darkvision +1 Natural Armour Draconic, Common, Undercommon Languages Favored Class:Sorcerer +0 LA

Goblin_______________________________ -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma +4 to Hide Checks, + 4 to Move Silently Checks Small Stature: +1 AC, +1 Bonus Attack Roll Darkvision Common, Goblin Languages Favored Class:Rogue +0 LA

I'm not sure if this'd make them Application-only again, but it'd make the Goblin and Kobold Subraces more and less desirable.

It would be great if the DMs could re-adjust this. Older Goblins and Kobolds would possibly be grandfathered in.

Thanks, Ace

The kobold stats are as you have written, a 4 penalty to strength and 2 to constittution, having the +2 to dexterity from the halfling stats. As I have never played a goblin, I can't tell whether they have those stats but I believe so.

Goblin (Halfling) DEX +2, STR -2, CHA -2, Saving Throws vs Fear: -1, Universal Saving Throws: -1, Listen -2, Move Silently +2

Ive said this a million times and this applys to all settings. Alone goblin and kobolds are weak! The only time there actual threats is when there in great numbers! Also often there commanded by something bigger! A lone kobold or goblin isnt likely to rock! OK THey suck USe your dishonorable tactics called numbers! Goblins and kobolds dont do 1 on 1 fights. Infact if you even thought about a 1on1 fight that isnt your own kind that society thinks your retarded.

Those whom were killed by Squeagle, or Grillix, might beg to differ!

The saving throw pentalty for goblins (and maybe kobolds) is probably because of the halfling feats (fearless or lucky or whatever). Other than that, and the missing +1AC (likely for mechanical reasons as well as balance), I think they're pretty close to the stats you described.

+1 is from small size, which they get.

Dr Dragon Ive said this a million times and this applys to all settings. Alone goblin and kobolds are weak! The only time there actual threats is when there in great numbers! Also often there commanded by something bigger! A lone kobold or goblin isnt likely to rock! OK THey suck USe your dishonorable tactics called numbers! Goblins and kobolds dont do 1 on 1 fights. Infact if you even thought about a 1on1 fight that isnt your own kind that society thinks your retarded.

Erm... I... I'm not gonna even say it.