Since there's been a fair about of PVP rules breaking recently, most likely due to confusion, here is a thread where you can ask any PVP related questions you may have.

This will be different than most DM Q&A topics, as anyone can ask. Please refrain from interjecting your opinions though! Questions only!

I guess it will be good to get those questions out of the way.

Are there any places with NPCs where unsupervised PvP is legal?

In the wilds of the Underdark, there are sometimes single NPCs sitting around. Is PvP legal around them without supervision?

What are some alternatives when PvP is imminent (I.E.: an inescapable inevitability due to the actions and attitudes of the characters involved) and the DMs are unavailable and unresponsive?

If illegal PvP is witnessed, is it okay to put a stop to it by joining in? In what format and to which source should it be reported?

What about n00b griefer 20-str Half-orcs barbarian/sorcs with Greataxes, IPA, and True Strike? How do we deal with them?

What PvP tactics, techniques, and strategies are frowned upon, and which are outright illegal? For example, is it bad to bring 4 burly half-orcs with you to a duel, and what degree of bad is it?

Does a victim of legal PvP have any recourse due to an unsatisfying experience/death?

Are there any places with NPCs where unsupervised PvP is legal?

Wilderness area with random PCs in the underdark (Hrunpar, wander duergar merchant, troll quest giver, etc)

In the wilds of the Underdark, there are sometimes single NPCs sitting around. Is PvP legal around them without supervision?

I am assuming you mean Hrunpar, Morose Goblin, etc. Not directly in front of these lone NPCs, but across the map should be fine.

What are some alternatives when PvP is imminent (I.E.: an inescapable inevitability due to the actions and attitudes of the characters involved) and the DMs are unavailable and unresponsive?

Well, for one, things are never inescapable. Really a player shouldn't begin amping up to PVP in populated areas without a DM. In such cases it's up to the PCs to decide what to do, whether it's angrily stomping off, threatening them for another day, breaking down in tears, whatever.

If illegal PvP is witnessed, is it okay to put a stop to it by joining in? In what format and to which source should it be reported?

No! Mostly due to the fact that you can't tell if it's legal or not just from looking. It's usually best to use IRC in emergencies, and email with screens otherwise. However, if someone is clearly being a griefer, attacking people randomly for no good reason in front of NPC or not, they can be stopped to prevent further harm. Just be sure that they're griefing.

What about n00b griefer 20-str Half-orcs barbarian/sorcs with Greataxes, IPA, and True Strike? How do we deal with them?

Whoosie doodle. See above! Try to get a DM first, and if none are around, stop them and take screens etc. Try to explain to them in Tells what RP is, if you're feeling patient.

What PvP tactics, techniques, and strategies are frowned upon, and which are outright illegal? For example, is it bad to bring 4 burly half-orcs with you to a duel, and what degree of bad is it?

I'm assuming you mean IC tactics, if you mean OOC engine tactics/exploits/cheats I believe those are well covered in the rules. You can bring all the smelly halforcs you want to your ambush. IC tactics are pretty much universally fine so long as they abide all the standard PvP rules. The one potential exception is deliberately ganking people in QA's. Sometimes things happen, etc, and a fight will break out on a quest. Try to get a DM in that case, but it should be fine. Deliberately taking one person alone to a quest then gutting them while they fight is not so good.

Does a victim of legal PvP have any recourse due to an unsatisfying experience/death?

Legitimate PvP is just that, and thus what happens IC as a result of it remains ICly viable. As for 'recourse', it is entirely situational depending on what happens IC. Sometimes your body will be spirited away for a raise right away. Sometimes your torso will be eaten.

Metro_Pack

If illegal PvP is witnessed, is it okay to put a stop to it by joining in?

No! Mostly due to the fact that you can't tell if it's legal or not just from looking.

So, if I understood your answer correctly, you mean that one should not OOC-join a fight just to stop a griefer (unless its truly blatantly obvious that it is indeed griefing).

But, in that case, is it still ok to IC-join an ongoing fight in front of NPCs without asking for DM supervision? (since it should be safe to assume that the first attacker has made sure such supervision is already present.)

As long as it's obvious that a DM is present.

So, if I understood your answer correctly, you mean that one should not OOC-join a fight just to stop a griefer (unless its truly blatantly obvious that it is indeed griefing).

Let me be more clear. If anyone ever attacks you, or attacks your friend, or anything that gives you an IC reason to defend yourself or others, then you can always intervene if it's IC to do.

If it's someone you suspect of being a griefer, do not intervene for OOC reasons unless you're -sure- they're griefing. For example, you see Johnny Halforc pummeling Joey Halfling, and you don't know either of them/your character doesn't have any reason to get involved. Running in to smoke Johnny to OOCly stop him should only be done when you're sure he's griefing, because if he's doing it legitimately and you attack him for OOC reasons then it's you that's causing the issue. Determining whether someone is a griefer is usually pretty easy, if you see a low level PC randomly attacking people in front of NPCs, send a /dm message asking if it's being supervised and if nobody responds, then stopping him should be fine. In cases of griefing, trying to get a DM to come IG via IRC is recommended as well.

Fortunately this issue hardly ever comes up though!

But, in that case, is it still ok to IC-join an ongoing fight in front of NPCs without asking for DM supervision? (since it should be safe to assume that the first attacker has made sure such supervision is already present.)

Again, if you or your IC friends are being attacked you can always defend yourself no matter what. If it's a situation where Player A attacks Player B, then runs off, and you want to chase/stalk them around and gut them, you'll still need to get a DM before attacking in front of NPCs.

For example, you're hanging out inside the Gate, when a PC pops out of invis and starts hacking your pal to bits. You can respond to this and defend him without checking for a DM, since it was the responsibility of the initiator to get a DM. If they pop out, kill your friend, then go invis and you see them inside Town Hall five mins later, you'll need to get a DM if you want to attack them.

The responsibility for getting a DM has always been on the person initiating any combat.

It seems complicated but it's actually very simple.

A: Get a DM before you -initiate- combat.

B: If you're the one on the receiving end of an attack, you can defend yourself fully, and it is not up to you to get a DM before defending yourself.

C: If a PVP combat ends (ie the immediate fighting/chasing stops), make sure you have a DM before starting it up again, whether you were initially the attacker or victim.

As a bouncer for the Crone, am I allowed to subdue others (in the Crone itself) without a DM present? I have been given permission IG by busy DMs to go ahead w/o supervision in the past, but is this policy?

I will always send a tell either way, of course.

Yes, that is totally fine.

However, if they turn the tables and pwn you, don't get butthurt about NPCs!

Is killing someone just because they are part of this and this faction acceptable? ((Say a druid managed to corner a known spellguard agent, and kills him for just being a spellguard agent))

Thanks.

It's discouraged. It's my opinion that you should only resort to FD to end some sort of rivalry that's on a more personal level. If this was a Spellguard Agent you work against and have encountered and have some sort of relationship with, sure. If it's a stranger, it'd be better for both sides if you kept it as a thuggery. Consider stealing all of his super top secret Spellguard stuff, and further humiliate him by making him run back to his tower naked. This way you form that rivalry described above, which is going to be more interesting than a random FD.

Okay

Is it safe to say that the answer to my first question up there is officially changed?

Yes, indeed.

I know that setting someone up by asking them to go on a scripted quest for the specific reason of mugging them is not allowed. However, I am wondering how to handle a situation where something happens on a normal scripted quest that leads to PVP.

1. Is this even allowed, or should you finish the quest and deal with the PVP at a later date?

2. If allowed does a DM need to be present?

3. The opponent is in party so cannot be set to hostile. Should you remove yourself from the group, set them to hostile, then proceed with PVP?

Thanks

Is PvPing someone just because they follow <insert god> okay?

For example, the clergies of Istishia and Kossuth have been at each other's throats forever.

Blatantly non-regular animal companions.

I saw an Eyeball familiar float through lower reccently. What's the policy on PvFamilliar? Is a DM required to kill a blatant monster?

I would check with the player to see if their just new first, and then explain to them that it's a monster etc.

Otherwise, feel free to slay it with no other reason than monstrosity- but get a DM first.

There is also a little problem that used to exist that may still....the factions on those familiars are messed up, so if you attack it, all NPCs will hostile you.

1) So firstly, a clarification about waiting for DMs. Often I have found the following scenario: two parties cannot resolve their differences with words, but everyone is standing next to blue NPCs. One party PMs the other party: “Waiting for DM for PvP” or “DM is busy, will be here in a moment” etc. What is the protocol here? Can one start to buff up, even thought there is no DM? Can you start to run? Even though the other party cannot restrain you. Or are you caught in a time bubble, unable to do anything except trash talk your opponent and wave a fist till they arrive? Leave without a DM presence?

2) Pup said:

As a bouncer for the Crone, am I allowed to subdue others (in the Crone itself) without a DM present? I have been given permission IG by busy DMs to go ahead w/o supervision in the past, but is this policy?

I will always send a tell either way, of course.

Metro said:

Yes, that is totally fine.

However, if they turn the tables and pwn you, don't get butthurt about NPCs!

So a bouncer can attack in the Crone, can the owner of the Wench’s Clench attack there? Can the Seekers attack in the Shrine of Ascension? The Nancy’s in the Gambling hall? Etc etc. Basically, is there a rule saying faction members can start PvP without DMs in faction areas? If the answer is no, is the Crone the only place? If there are some areas/factions that are okay and some that aren’t, is there a list somewhere?

3) Thomas said:

Is killing someone just because they are part of this and this faction acceptable? ((Say a druid managed to corner a known spellguard agent, and kills him for just being a spellguard agent))

Thanks.

Sternhund said:

It's discouraged. It's my opinion that you should only resort to FD to end some sort of rivalry that's on a more personal level. If this was a Spellguard Agent you work against and have encountered and have some sort of relationship with, sure. If it's a stranger, it'd be better for both sides if you kept it as a thuggery. Consider stealing all of his super top secret Spellguard stuff, and further humiliate him by making him run back to his tower naked. This way you form that rivalry described above, which is going to be more interesting than a random FD.

So, even if something is faction v faction FD isn’t generally kosher. That’s fine. What happens if you can reasonably expect to be killed yourself by the other faction member? Say we have a situation like this:

Vrmbar the Twice-born is conducting a ritual to Velsharoonie to cement his place in that god’s “top five dudes” list. It involves killing small puppies and the animation of Merlinda Bresley’s bones. To the sound of a breaking door, enter left stage Roland the Steady, watchman and adventurer extraordinaire. Roland lets of a furious stream of emotes ending with: “Stop in the name of the law!”, and launches himself at Vrmbar.

Lets say Vrmbar wins. Is it all right for Vrmbar to kill the watchmen? It is IC, he is the incarnation of evil and the extra fresh body might make Velsharoonie a little less miffed about the unexpected interruption. But there has been no interaction between these two characters, they have in fact never met. Moreover, if Roland wins the fight, Vrmbar is dead. Yes, there will be a trial and some wacky RP, but ultimately Vrmbar will be stoned. Is the correct protocol to leave Roland beaten on the floor, and tell him –next- time you try and arrest me for necromancy, I will kill you and animate your remains. Just say Roland is the only witness to the crime? Can Vrmbar’s player really be expected to let him go?

I know this is an extreme example, but is there some sort of OOC protection for law enforcers that means they can initiate PvP with strangers (that is, after all, there job) with intent to kill, but that those they attack cannot?

How about non-law enforcers. Is there some rule of etiquette that indicates one can kill if one has reasonable expectation that your PC would have been killed by the other PC? Does it matter who initiated the PvP?

Maybe that will do for now, so many possibilities, my head is spinning.

1) You don't need to tell them you're waiting, or anything. I personally wouldn't tip anyone off OOCly if I was planning to attack them. Try to keep OOC to a minimum, if it happens that they leave before a DM arrives, c'est la vie.

2) Yes, it applies to all DM factions. If it spills out of the faction area, you will need a DM though. Try to use common sense though- if there's a chance you might lose, at all, get a DM .

3) If you're ever attacked, you can kill the attacker, if it's IC. I don't know where you're getting some of the stuff in this question.

1) In these types of cases, do not take any kind of hostile action (which buffing certainly is) unless you have explicit confirmation that a DM is watching. You're fine to walk off though-- if the other party assaults you then without a DM, they will be in big trouble!

2) Always get a DM to PvP when NPCs are around. However, in the case of DM faction areas (Watch and Upper, Crone Staff and Crone) faction PCs are afforded a certain degree of leniency. There is no hard and fast rule; use common sense. For example, if you're just kicking out some unruly goblin out of the Crone with your bouncer, fine. However, if there are like six unruly goblins and you reasonably suspect the situation could get out of hand, get a DM. Player factions are not generally afforded this leniency-- if there are NPCs, make sure you get a DM.

3) If you're attacked by someone in an opposing faction and you beat them, you can do whatever you like. The gist is that you shouldn't attack and FD another PC merely on the sole basis that they are in fact in an opposing faction.

One thing to clarify, if you're the aggressor in a faction area, like the crone for instance, and a PC bouncer comes up to kick you out, that is not free range to FD the bouncer if you don't have a DM. In that particular case, subduing the bouncer would be the best course of action and then either -wait- for a DM, since the situation got out of hand, or at least leave and do not do anything more drastic. NPCs are there to react to stuff like that, the whole 'get attacked and defend yourself and FD the attacker' is not griefing bait for going into a faction area and causing problems and hoping a DM isn't around when you FD the PC faction member trying to resolve it.

This is a slightly shaky rule, but we have to put the trust in you to make the intelligent decisions. If you're going to cause trouble like that you should just get a DM in the first place. If you don't have one, steer clear of the area or put yourself on hold. Ideally you'd be exercising what's IC for you and completely expecting the IC outcome, not turning it into a competition and a chance to exercise your PvP muscles (i.e. drunken loud guy causes a fuss and the player OOC'ly graciously accepts a little smacking around and kick out of the crone). Most people want to win, however, so get a DM if that's what you want to do.

Subdual & Healing;

Are you allowed to heal someone who's been subdued?

It's clear that once subdued they cannot rise; but, are allies allowed to heal them, thus taking them out of the 'subdued' state, and preventing things like /c yank_pack?

Spectral Line Subdual & Healing;

Are you allowed to heal someone who's been subdued?

It's clear that once subdued they cannot rise; but, are allies allowed to heal them, thus taking them out of the 'subdued' state, and preventing things like /c yank_pack?

It's fine to heal a subdued person, but the subdued person should stay down until the fight's conclusion regardless of heal or not.

Subdual & Healing #2

So, healing is allowed to prevent the subdued state from functioning like it should, i.e. allowing the yanking of packs, but not to allow them to rise.

Doesn't that encourage FD, in instances where a party is healing to prevent a quick snatch & grab?

I'm aware excessive beating still drops a pack, but that also can't be done while someone who's supposedly 'subdued' is being pumped with healing.

Was the /c yank_pack feature really intended to prevent that kind of theft, by preventing a pack from falling without excessive beating on the subdued person in question, thus encouraging the much faster FD method of pack theft?

Spectral Line Subdual & Healing #2

So, healing is allowed to prevent the subdued state from functioning like it should, i.e. allowing the yanking of packs, but not to allow them to rise.

Doesn't that encourage FD, in instances where a party is healing to prevent a quick snatch & grab?

I'm aware excessive beating still drops a pack, but that also can't be done while someone who's supposedly 'subdued' is being pumped with healing.

Was the /c yank_pack feature really intended to prevent that kind of theft, by preventing a pack from falling without excessive beating on the subdued person in question, thus encouraging the much faster FD method of pack theft?

No, the mechanic of yank_pack is not made to account for healing. From my [limited] knowledge of scripting, I do not know how to make it account for such.

Bear in mind NWN is not a perfect game, so I believe that this will just have to be a flaw of the game engine, just as we cannot account for what creative things other party members can do to prevent the theft of a package.

It's stupid to be yanking packs when people are still around and healing their friends. If they're being a problem, beat them down too!

Anyone who FDs someone else out of nothing but OOC convenience is a complete jackass who will likely get getting a fresh serving of holiday Banurkey.

Mind you if you're in a brawl, you shouldn't bother healing your friends; they still cannot get up, so all it creates is confusion. Feel free to heal your subdued friends after the battle is concluded though.

How far away does an NPC on the same map need to be in order to avoid the necessity for confirming DM presence?

Thanks.

S

socialmisfit How far away does an NPC on the same map need to be in order to avoid the necessity for confirming DM presence?

Thanks.

S

If a PC escapes into an area with NPCs without a DM around, then in most circumstances, they've 'escaped.' Therefore, it's a good idea to simply make sure you are far, far away from one if you plan to engage in pvp after alerting the dm channel, but without first receiving a response.

How far away does an NPC on the same map need to be in order to avoid the necessity for confirming DM presence?

Thanks.

S

Anywhere on the map for Sanctury and immediate environs.

For the few solitary underdark NPCs, what Strife said!

Metro_Pack

How far away does an NPC on the same map need to be in order to avoid the necessity for confirming DM presence?

Thanks.

S

Anywhere on the map for Sanctury and immediate environs.

For the few solitary underdark NPCs, what Strife said!

*Anywhere* on the map? That seems hardly reasonable.

Why? If you're in Sanctuary and the PvP could conceivably move to within eyeshot or listening distance of a NPC, a DM should be present.

There are plenty of wilderness areas, but really PvP is best done with a DM whenever possible - for one thing, if you win, you will most likely get XP if a DM watched.

Howland Why? If you're in Sanctuary and the PvP could conceivably move to within eyeshot or listening distance of a NPC, a DM should be present.

There are plenty of wilderness areas, but really PvP is best done with a DM whenever possible - for one thing, if you win, you will most likely get XP if a DM watched.

But doesn't that just end the PvP? All PvP could conceivably move within the line of sight and earshot of an NPC.

It makes perfect sense for the entire map to require a DM in populated areas.

Well, question answered, anyway!

What are the immediate environs?

Upper Sanctuary Residential District, New Dunwarren, Lower Sanctuary Southeastern Alleyways, Canal Ward, Sanctuary Gate, Canal Gate, Machine Zone ruins (Upper) Spellguard Zone (Upper) Sewer Town

All populated buildings within

...

Other DM's can fill in areas I may have forgotten.

Thanks a bunch.

Need a dm for PvP in Quest Areas?

For intentional smackings, yes, I would assume so.

But what about conflict that arises over loot and gold?

If you intend it, get a DM.

If it happens spontaneously as a result of an argument, then you do not need one (provided it is not done near any blue NPCs).

If we want to pvp in an area where we know a dm is present, do we have to ask the dm anyway?

Does the small ooze in the sewers count as blue npc when it comes to unsupervised pvp?

1) Yes, definitely. The key is to never assume that a DM is present, or focussed on what you're about to begin.

2) Something like a neutral ooze or Rothe doesn't merit DM attendance, however it's always good to have a DM on hand.

What happens if right in the middle of pvp a player disconects/crash?

You can wait.

What if they just don't come back? Would you arrange something convenient with them next time they're on?

I think we'd rather you did not generally arrange PvP out of character. Sometimes it's necessary; mostly, not. Case by case basis.

Though, if they don't come back bring the matter up with a DM.

But what if he dies because he crashed? Is the death legit? That would be pretty lame.

And if he disconnects: before he comes back, do his opponents have the right to buff / heal?

This is probably one of those asked million times before- but here goes.

In the back room of the crone, is it okay to PvP in there without DM supervision as long as it isn't FD or mugging?

In the Training room in the Last Stand, okay to PvP if it isn't FD or mugging?

Yes, sparring specific areas are ok for friendly sparring.

I've heard if you attack someone in a party, you have to set the whole party to hostile.

Problem is: what happens when your character has feats such as cleave, or use spells such as missile storm, which ic would be supposed to work only on the one person you want to bring down? What happens with attacks of opportunity?

They hit you and maybe kill you. Set hostile anybody who might desire to assist the target. Easier to set anyone but allies to your cause hostile.

So it wasn't true then. Thanks.

Yes; yes, it is true.

:?:

I was just informed that I may have misunderstood your question. Instead of answering it directly, I'll outline the steps so there's no doubt.

If a player decides to attack another player currently member of party, or in a relatively near vicinity of other players that cannot be considered enemies of the target, the attacking player must set the target; any and all of the target's allies in the area; and ideally anybody else who isn't an immediate ally of the attacker, hostile. Setting one member of a mechanical party (that is, people who are "partied") hostile does not automatically set the entire party hostile, this must be done manually for each party member (refer to the relevant chat commands).

Whatever happens from this point on is tough luck; AoOs, vector-spells, passive feats -- none of these can be guarded against, nor should they generally be considered OOC. There are very specific cases (such as during negotiations) in which something like a Cleave attack can be considered OOC, but in those circumstances it should be painfully obvious to all involved parties.

Whichever it is, please try and formulate questions, especially those pertaining to server rules, as unambiguously as possible. It makes Santa's life much easier.

Traps! Are there any special rules regarding traps in pvp situations? I have been looking arround but couldnt find any information on this.

Do not stack traps (no part of them should overlap) and do not use traps to completely surround a character or effectively block their path, and do not use them in populated/heavily traveled areas like the city streets. (You might get away with the last one with DM permission? Maybe. No guarantees!)

I'm pretty sure I read all that in the journal and/or OOC area signs, but I looked in the usual places on the forums (except for The Great FAQs) and didn't see it. It's probably in the FAQs, but so is everything, so that would be cheating.

What is this server’s trap policy?

1. You are allowed to use one direct damage trap (electric/fire/frost/holy/negative energy/sonic/spike) and one additional non-direct damage trap (such as slow) in PvP. 2. Do not obscure a path entirely with traps. You must always leave an open path so you trap(s) can be avoided. 3. Do not stack traps under any circumstances. This particular exploit can lead to direct bans. 4. There is no limit to the amount of traps you can use in PvE, as long as you do not violate point 3. 5. Do not set traps in populated areas or designated “newbie" areas (sewers, beetle farm, low-level quest areas). This is considered griefing.

Thanks for the answers.