Any NWN player plan the concept and the levels of his build to play in each server.

EFU is an amazing concept, is a low magic world and a full party quest.

In few resets any build can take level 4, then go in party quests, with some luck, to take level 8.

But EFU is going to be only a low level (lvl < 9) server and I see many good IC//OOC players, get bored and given up.

Why ?

This is certainly an enormous topic that could go on for pages and pages. There are a number of key reasons that I couldn't even name off the top of my head, but I can give a quick tip of the iceberg (iceburg?). I'm sure you can look through old posts too to find similar questions and answers

It's the level range we like, for the most part. Like you said, it's a low level, low magic world. That's not to say there can't be high level wizards and clerics, PCs and NPCs (or any class really), but when that starts to become the norm, that means the magic level has changed.

We like to tailor the content and the story and the atmosphere to the level range we have. For one, it's relatively easy to do. For second, it's a good range for the story telling aspect in the environment that's being maintained.

I hope someone has the time (I'm at work) to provide some examples and more concret reasons, but for now you can go with that. It's also a lot of work adding in higher level concept and keeping things balanced, but albiet all that, it's not to say you -can't- get higher than level 9. You can (try to!) powergame yourself to level 12+ if you so choose. The best way to do it though is to be an awesome player and play an awesome character. That's when you will really shine and that's what we like to see.

----

There's another darker side to this question too, and I hope it's not too relevant. Remember that levels aren't everything, and that if that's the only thing that matters to you, I think you (anyone) should rethink their priorities. Levels and loot are good on WoW. They are certainly nice, but we'd like to think there's a little more here.

Some players are enjoy questing a lot so it might be a lack of higher level players to quest with or a lack of good quest with for higher levels or merely a lack of new places to explore. I dont know about that truthfully. My main char is only level 5 and I quest him like twice a week at the most.

It could also be that they are use to playing at servers with high levels and that they feel restricted by the low levels here. I know it doesnt sound restricting but imagine a server where you can level behond 4. They can miss some high levels spells and buffs or something.

I know that the times on an rp server Im concentrating on levels is if I want a char who is suppose to be tough or a bad guy or something and he can get his butt kicked by over half the server. However if they are level 8 or 9 here that shouldent be a problem.

Im sure their are many other reasons we can think of but these three are the ones I came up with. Its probly one of the first two depending on the situation.

I am not really huge fan of doing and repeating the dungeons, and having to go them for a new character to get some basic experience. My enjoyment isn't depending on amount of levels(although you many times need about 4 levels & some gold to establish yourself somewhat), but more of the atmosphere, plot and the other characters. I am bored when there is no one to interact with.

For me it is more rewarding to have interesting conversation than doing "the clowns" again. The conversation does not earn me XP & gold, but it may provide some new opportunity in a future plot line that will slowly evolve. That gives me more motivation to go forward than any amount of XP.

I would also argue, as I have been several years a DM on other server, that having more levels do not reduce amount of people getting bored. They just reach the max a bit slower perhaps, but they will reach it. After that we can begin EPIX debate :)

I like the level range as it is.

The main things about low level-low magic is parity. Nothing is worse than logging into a server at level 1 and seeing level 40's around. On EFU, nearly anyone can interact with anyone on relatively equal footing. Sure, there is some disparity, but it's a lot more engaging when you and your level 5 buddies are enemies with a level 8 bad guy than being enemies with a level 40 that could annihilate you in one round.

Thanks for your time ( I am at work too!).

I understand that make a "I remember a guy who ..." character is most pleasure and next what real happens, but I am not want to play NWN like a "Second Life".

What I say is gonna be more and more hard get "high" level party to do or to know other quests than "the newbies".

I think that is not funny spend hours, days, weeks and then go to suicide in a unknown "non-newbie" quest.

The AI of "quest system" dont balance, the DooMs Go(o)ds do.

thanks again.

[]s tooh

The quest system does actually balance against party makeup. It is actually harder to balance things when you include higher levels (around 8+). It's also no secret that EfU is supposed to be a harsh environment, and the difficultly level intentionally supports that.

I have to agree with wyric. For me it is all about the atmosphere. The highest level I've been personally on this server is 6 but I haven't actually payed my full attention to my level as I played. For my it is much more interesting to discover the plots that, it would seem, each and every PC has and trying to interact with it somehow.

As far as quest variety goes it helps to go through some type of rp to find more quests. As in, the more you interact with the PCs around you the more of a possibility you have of entering into a once in a lifetime quest which involves a DM. And even if there isn't a quest around to do there is always hidden treasures about the underdark for those higher level characters who need something to do. Whether it be a hidden non-DM DM quest or some interesting place few have seen before.

And you can't say there isn't any high level magic around... there are those few magic items that bring any low level character to level footing with one of the higher ones. Of course you don't get those (or an unusual drop occurs) unless you get cozy with both players and DMs. RP is the main reason I really got hooked on NWN and basically this is my second server I have ever been on, I haven't changed sense. I always thought it was about RP anyway on this server... which is why I feel sad when I hit a lag stream and can't do my thing.

here's my two cents on the topic having not read what was said above.

It's easy to get to level 4 and moderately easy to get to 6+, but the issue comes in that sometimes quests can go horribly wrong.

Players will get killed and lose their levels. Some players will rush blindly into any quest at that point to gain the levels back only to get killed again and thus lose more experience.

Conversely, you have players that get to level 8 (which rules them out of many of the more popular quests) and there are fewer players that can stay 8+ for long, which limits who you can play with.

Also by that time, you may or may not have reached your goals for that character. I remember a character of mine just having to plain wait till the opportunity came for him to move his plot forward.

So there are lots of reasons why people seemingly stop playing their characters.

There are some really great higher level quests out there, and just last night I saw two level 10 pc's and 2 level 9's, several in the 6-8 range. So people are finding ways to make it to those levels. As for the quests, you will need to do a bit of exploring to find them, and that is as it should be. The underdark is huge, and I would guess only a fraction of the server population has seen much of it. No quest to do? Form a group to go explore far flung areas for new resources, or even a way up! It is all careening to the same outcome, a worthy death, so once you have reached that plateau, try expeditions out into the dark for their own sake. You will not be bored for long.

Sadly (as some of you know) i am one of those people how have gotten bored with efu and left, at least semi-permanently for the moment. I have managed to get a character to lvl 8 and so close to lvl 9 you could almost taste it, then died. Partly i admit i want to lvl up and be loved and feared by all with my uber combat skills (which really wasn't that uber anyway, more like a sneeze in a wind tunnel :D ...i know what i mean..) but combat wasn't the main reason i played. At first, yes i cared more for the lvls than the Rp, but now i am the opposite, wanting to have enjoyable Rp than slogging through the usual quests or go out on some obscure mission into the underdark and die there. In the end, part of me resented having to go out on quests since i could lose my character in a very dark, quiet corner of some battlefield and get forgotten within moments without anyone caring.

It is a rather pathetic way of looking at things since yes, we all have to die at some stage, and yes we cant always choose how we die but still... Part of the reason that i left was that well, so many Rp'ers on the server had left in the first place for one reason or another which is disappointing. I had fewer people to Rp with that i knew or the people that i loved Rping with had there PC die off. Now, you could say just rp with other people which i tried with some success but it just didn't feel the same. There where so many changes happening around sanctuary that personally i find rather confusing, although it does diversify the environment, i for one dislike change. Perhaps it shows my weaknesses as a Rp'er...

EFU is a great server, but not for the faint hearted it must be said. It is hard to get bored of the server, i was addicted to it for at least 5 months playing 10 hours straight every day at least. It was also my first experience of NWN online and to the world of RP, and i for one am glad that i came here. All other games pale in comparison to this game and all other servers pale in front of EFU. It is still attracting fresh blood which is good!

I think i will end my ramble here, :D

The main reason i think this is the best server and remains so is the lvl system balance that has been established.

Very easy to get to lvl 5 and slow after that getting very slow by 9-10.

Perfect 8)

It makes you always on yours toes, whatever level, you know that some new guy could get a group of friends and cause you trouble as has often been seen, which relfects 'reality'.

At the same time there is enough difference to mean that higher levels can make a bit of a difference. Though IC rep is worth more IMO.

And remember in FR (the server setting) lvl 9-10 is pretty badass, not epic, but would be, as they are in Sanctuary, well know and in some ways feared.

I will say this while I do occassionally run into a odd player here or there I always come back to EFU for as others have said the players. Quite a few pcs I have run into have great concepts, and many people do a great job at rping. Which makes questing with a group alot of fun.

Yes dying is depressing i've gone from six to two twice in the past two weeks. Still it happens. Lvl 4 is not hard, yes it takes time but it is not really hard. Six is not hard if you are very very cautious, bring lots of healing, a invisibility, and save no one, and always stay back.

That said this is underdark. Dangers are real and chances of you dying by pissing off four goblins is just as likely as you dying against illusionary clowns. I do like the fact though that power here is not all tangiable. Sure you can build up your uber lvl 9 doom guy but it allows pcs who are lvl 5 or even 6 to unite others and take down said player if they have the determination to do so.

It's a great server over all and I like it here. Also I like the feeling that anything at any moment could come bargaing through underdark and turn the entire structure to chaos in a instant.

I can tell you a few things about the level system.

It's harsh, especially when combined with the death of your character. It's hard to level up, it's increasingly hard to recover from death, and it's hard to get large amounts of experience. No matter how powerful your character gets, there will be a harder challenge and goal.

It's perfect. Make's getting to level six rewarding and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.... But then you get over your head, run into the nearest group to get some good loot to match your new power, and find yourself dead.

But then again, who said the Underdark would be easy?

I like it this way, and at most it should only lower the difficulty bar one-half of a notch.

A low level low magic server suits me just fine. I am no powergamer and I do not have a good hold of the mechanics. I would not last long in a high level server. On EfU I barely get to level 6 at times and do not stay there for long as many of you well know.

I often get on and RP only as I have no time to get into a long quest. Yes, I am an old fogey who needs more sleep than you youngsters. ... By the way, turn the radio down when drive past my home after dark, it is way too loud.

Besides quests and loot, a big part of the fun of EfU are factions and player plots. A level 9 character can be in on a plot just as a level 2.

If a level 9 character cannot think of a plot, work oneself into a plot, or work on a faction goal, perhaps a power gaming server is a better choice or character retirement and start over.

That is my tooh cents. You da man Tooh.

I like the low level setting. It keeps my mind off xp and skills and let me focuse on rp instead. It's actually the reason why I don't play games likes WoW and Diablo. They thow in xp and call it an rpg, but instead it only means hack'n'slash and metagaming. My best rp experience was when I played a sci-fi semi-live rp scenario. There where no skill points or xp, only fields of expertise like computers skills or combat training. If you wanted to do something, you'd interact with the other players or for something a bit more complex, go talk to the dm's and they would tell you how and when if possible.

I love EfU as a Roleplay server. You can't ask for more if thats what your looking for. High levels just make things harder to roleplay, relying more on your power to smite things then your actual ability to talk your way out of it, buy your way out of it, or practice running with the AWSD keys :D . Keep it as it is. If I wanted an epic character there are plenty of other servers, for EfU when you die you die, count them as being nice for letting you come back.

And sorry about the music Joe, I will turn it down a decibel or two for you next time I drive by.

tooh wrote:

But EFU is going to be only a low level (lvl < 9) server and I see many good IC//OOC players, get bored and given up.

Why ?

By way of offering a kind of anthropological answer:

I think it's because the human creature, especially the Western/American person, likes some quite tangible evidence that he or she is doing a good job: A paycheck, a raise, a reward, a perk, a plaque or medal or coffee-cup.

When it comes to 'gaming' as such, that typically is not expressed in terms of community respect, eager and willing interaction, or the other sorts of intangible 'rewards' one finds most frequently on EfU.

Even when they are given, new players might not really recognize them as such, or prize them so highly as those who do stick around.

One other reason: the fearsome dragon Reallife often intrudes and devours good, capable players eventually.

Interesting question. I've looked long and hard for a server like this one, as my first ORPG experience was also community oriented and not measured by the normal tangible rewards many gamers are accustomed to earning.

Play on!

--Aridfox, assistant to Roman Berevetti and others.

If a player doesn't enjoy the setting, or feels restricted, then I wish them well elsewhere. Really, the setting is the brainchild of Howland and was designed to be interesting and interactive. Low levels provide that in spades, whereas higher magic higher level servers do not.

It's all about economics and resources when you think about it. If you yourself have the resources, you will likely go at it alone or with a very few close companions. If you fail to have the necessary resources, you need a larger pool (party) to draw from to support your actions. Thus more inherent interaction in any quest--rather I should state there is more inherent opportunity for interaction on any quest in a low level low magic environment.

It's not for everyone. It is a harsh setting. And I love it that way. Those that do not, there are always other settings that may provide a more objectively "fun" environment.

Alone-In-The-Dark I like the low level setting. It keeps my mind off xp and skills and let me focuse on rp instead. It's actually the reason why I don't play games likes WoW and Diablo. They thow in xp and call it an rpg, but instead it only means hack'n'slash and metagaming.

Just a little defence to the best Hack n' Slash RPG [Diablo II] out there.

It's called an RPG because you Roleplay one of the characters, who, well-beat up stuff 99% of the time... RPGs are often labled as so because you can name, customize, and upgrade your characters via material and skills. It's a very popular, very loose style of an RPG.

Okay, sorry. Just had to make that clear.

Sometimes, you will get a bit bored with your character. This could happen due to some friends of that character dying, you've lost interest in that character or there is little interaction with others going on.

I tend to get bored with my character if there is little to do, and other factors. This is a fault from my side, and often results in that character's permanent death or it fades into the dark. Sometimes I regret that, sometimes it is for the best. When you are playing a character, you may find inspiration to make another and therefore begin to play that one instead, which makes the other less interesting and you soon favor your newest instead. That quickly leaves you with many characters you don't play or are interested in playing.

What really makes me keep playing a character, is interaction and conflict. I've had a kobold once who did not pass level 3, but yet had a most thrilling existance when I played him (he lasted two or three days). He was not killed by any other characters or faced much PvP, but the reason why I had fun with him was because of the interaction I had with other players and the situation we got into (without doing any quests) which ultimately led to his demise.

Questing and reaching high level is good and gives you a sense of achievement, but it is nothing if you don't have any interaction or conflicts with other characters. What keeps you playing your character are others willing to RP with you, even on quests or other expeditions. Instead of standing by the town hall waiting for things to happen, speak with the others, interact, get to know the other characters and you soon will get thrown into various conflicts you learn of. A faction is also a good thing to get into, whether it be a DM or Player faction. And most importantly, have fun while doing it. If your character isn't interesting to play, you won't play him/her often.

The level range and loot is just fine, I think.

If you think you can play EfU and not pay attention to skills and mechanics, then you're very silly. If anything, playing EfU has forced me to go to pains to learn how to properly act during combat. It's so absurdly difficult if you don't do the exact things perfectly right. It's like Raiding in WoW, minus the OOC coordination and Ventrilo.

More dots!

It's lonely at the top. Your level is inversely proportional with your chances of survival. A group of level 5's will survive for quite a long time, barring any unexpected run-ins with DM possessed dragons. A group of level 10's, amusingly, has much lower chances of staying alive, because there aren't many of them. Safety in numbers (the goblin way!) is vital around here. Hell, I hate even having the highest HP count in a party, because it means I'll have to "rescue" people if worst comes to worst. (None of my characters have that asshole streak of sitting in the back while others take the bruises- though I've seen it happen.)

A big mistake is attaching high levels to powerful equipment. Sure, the level 5+ quests have good payouts, and high levels are handy whenever you're dealing with DM spice (my level 2 fighter bit the dust in seconds in a FOIG situation) but they're not essential. With the right equipment, you'll be fine whether you're level 5 or level 15. And the DM's will never really pile on more than you can take. At least, not if you're a smart player.

Never step out of a risky situation when your only excuse is "I don't have a high enough level for this." Cowardly, stinks of metagaming too. Charge into problems head on, and never get attached to a character, because that makes losing them even worse. You'll always have another idea.

EFU always presents a challenge!

The Ace Of Blades

Just a little defence to the best Hack n' Slash RPG [Diablo II] out there.

Heh, I have no arguments against Diablo 2 being one of the best Hack'n'Slash games ever :), I just think that the term RPG, which many games employ, is misleading. I can see your point about being able to customize your chars and such, just wish they wouldn't relate it to RP. IMO you could just as easily call Red Alert or any other game with a tech three, skills or other forms of advancement an RPG (given the current use of the term), since you play a role as well in those games. Anyway, I think I'm getting off topic, so... cheers ;)

I think Talir is really onto to it you need to get out there, meet people, and get into plots or create them. If you don't then usually I see many players forgoing past characters and making new ones.

The truth is starting your own plot/guild requires alot of time and several people get annoyed with the current ones. They want new ones but refuse to put in the effort to make them. So they just keep hoping characters. Keep in mind though that it is not the lvls that will make you.

Yes you can go up to lvl 5 rather quickly if you know what your doing. Still if you have no real interactions between level 2 and five other then I'll go with you. Then yes it's quite easy to get bored. However some of my funnest times here are exploring there are a litany of small undisclosed hidden places to discover for the intrepid explorer :)

><