i have made a few thiefs but all have not ended so well but i noticed the main problem for their getting caught. mainly its that you can't ninja loot (sneaking up and grabbing an item someone has on the ground). that it not right there is no such thing as a thief who does not try to be not seen. everythief would try to steal without being seen therefore not getting caught as fast. people think you need to give people a warning but what thief gives any warning whatsoever if he does not want to get caught. i can understand how it might be called griefing but so is wlking up to a person trying to sell their wares in the street and grabbing an item and runnign leaving them two choices 1. pick up their items then chase the thief increasing the thiefs chance to escape 2. leave your items and make a break after the thief hoping to catch him and leave your items behind and hope he was not just a distraction for another thief or three. and i an all for making there a limit on how many items you can steal per irl day like make it round three or so to make it reasonable for the thief mainly since each theft increaces the jail time and the chance of gettign caught.

mjones,

Firstly: Please, please, please write in a normal format. Use sentances, capitalize things, and use breaks for paragraphs. Reading your post was tough.

Secondly: If your thief is getting caught, I can assure you it is not a fault of the system. There will not be any in game limit placed on stealing items, and just as well, there are other ways of selling things that do not involve spreading wears over the ground. We have had some very successfull merchants who have not done that.

As for the "ninja looting", when I have seen it happen it is usually borderline or gross metagaming of game mechanics. Especially when said looting happens during (ie right in the middle of) combat taking place. How things are picked through from a dead persons bag while fighting is raging a foot away from the body is beyond me.

Sorry if im not much for proper format I've always had trouble with it. And what i was told about ninja looting is that it was whenever you sneak and take an item and bye that i mean whenever you do if not necessarily in battle but to sneak and take ingeneral.

The Beggar

As for the "ninja looting", when I have seen it happen it is usually borderline or gross metagaming of game mechanics. Especially when said looting happens during (ie right in the middle of) combat taking place. How things are picked through from a dead persons bag while fighting is raging a foot away from the body is beyond me.

That seems like the best time for that sort of thing to happen. What else would a stealthy, unscrupuous individual do when happening upon a raging battle? Jump in and fight fairly, hoping for a peice of the pie afterwards? Hell no, he/she'd grab what she/he could and run off before he/she's noticed and/or forced to fight both sides! Unless she/he's just violent.

Being there looking over his shoulder at the time he was talking to the DM about if he could or couldn't do this I'll clarify what he is trying to ask. He is asking if he can take the loot that we, so stupidly, drop on the ground for anyone to take while he in stealth mode. He is thinking that why should he give us (yes he stole from me :roll: ) more chances to catch him.

The thing is if your character is chaotic evil you will probably do as Mashai wrote.

I play also an evil "smart" dwarf wizard who only cares about himself and his profits. For many times he picked items from the ground while his party mates were in battle. He always use an excuse like when he is caught: "Oh! That ... I was looking for something to help us..."

But if you are an thief ... you have to think the odds against your actions a wise thief would never try to stealing something an possible merchant set on the ground in middle of sanctuary while watchers are passing by...

If you play an suicide thief ... what the hell ... go try you "ninja moves".

But remember always keep it IC and avoid metagaming!!

a wise thief would never try to stealing something an possible merchant set on the ground in middle of sanctuary while watchers are passing by...

But if you play a wisdom 8 thief with an uber Hide and Move Silently score and more than 20 invis potions up his sleeve?

<.< >.>

Oh dear, I feel my fingers itching again...

Playing a merchant i have sometimes laid out items on the floor and sometimes not. I have no issue with sneaks trying to take things from the ground as i lay things out.

However, I would think (DM clarification maybe?) that if you do want to do this you should go hostile to the merchant FIRST, as it is a hostile action. Why? The first thing my merchant would do if he saw some sneaking/invisible PC trying to pick up his items would be to whack him hard/attack with spells and keep doing so until he was blacked out/potentially dead.

If you don't go hostile you are gaining a mechanic advantage as i have to turn you to hostile first.. then attack. Th onus should be on the originator of the action to go hostile.

So, no issue with it but give the chance for a response that you may not like!

Also I say you need Dm clarifacation if your doing in say infront of Npcs! I mean watchman have a amulet that can see invis IM sure if someone screamed SOMEONE INVISIbLE TOOK MY STUFF. The watchman would be WHere Where! *uses magic item spellguard defender amulet.*

not that it would make a difference if you had high enough hide/ms scores.

If you sneak past the merchant and remain unseen, kudos you win and get the loot, as long as you were hostile to begin with you deserve it, in my opinion anyway...

I'm in agreement with Elf999 and Dr Dragon. If you are going to steal items from the ground you should set the merchant (and preferably everyone nearby) hostile. You should also inform a DM of what is about to happen so they can take control of the Watch NPC's in the area, who would most certainly be chasing after you.

This is considered a hostile action similar to PvP and all the normal rules should apply.

Why do he need to be hostile !?

That doesn't make sense to me. Isn't it metagaming!?

What leads the merchant to fell like the "thief" has any intention to steal from his goodies? Nothing.

Unless the thief makes a bad move.

So if you declare first that you are "hostile" which means (in this case) that you have the intention to steal from his goodies it seems pointless unless you really... really trust that the "merchant" will keep it in RP.

But a DM call before stealling would be a wise act, in my opnion!

Turning someone to hostile is an OOC action, and is no way connected to the merchant "feeling" something is wrong. It is OOC courtesy to the person you wish to steal from, because in accordance with the PvP rules, when they react, they loose precious seconds setting you to hostile. Also, some abilities and spells only work on hostile enemies, I believe.

However, I agree with your final point. When you're thinking of stealing something in a crowded area, just as if you were going to PvP someone, you should let a DM know your intentions to make everything run smoothly.

The problem i see with this type of theift , is pcs useing there hide like HIPS* when its not. RP wise the moving of a item would break the hide as the person is now aware someone is there. And if your standing right in front of them..i would ask how? if you do not have HIPS*.

*HIPS[hide in plain sight]

What do you mean use their hide like HIPS? If your saying that stealth cant be used in a lighted open area your throwing this games entire stealth mechanics down the shitter. If you call that HIPS then how do you explain me sneaking up on anything at all thats facing me? You dont, you just live with the fact that this games stealth is like its magic. It doesn't work IRL.

Light From Darkness The problem i see with this type of theift , is pcs useing there hide like HIPS* when its not. RP wise the moving of a item would break the hide as the person is now aware someone is there. And if your standing right in front of them..i would ask how? if you do not have HIPS*.

*HIPS[hide in plain sight]

Stealth is a semi-magical ability. Of course you will know SOMEONE is there taking things, opening doors, etc. But that doesn't mean you automatically spot them.

I also agree with following all the PvP rules and guidelines when attempting to steal from someone. That will help ensure fairness and fun for all.

Of course, I would never just drop all of my stuff on the ground...

Guest-

As Halfbrood said turning someone hostile is completely an OOC action and has nothing to do with in character events. Their characters can "sense" or "feel" nothing. Setting another person to hostile and watching them buff themselves up as a result - simply contact a DM. They are not supposed to do that. If they react simply to being set hostile, contact a DM because, again, they are not supposed to do that.

However, a good word of advice is to set the entire server or area to hostile using the voice command. They do not receive a message saying they've been set to hostile, and if they cannot see you they cannot metagame because they will not notice you're glowing red.

TheManicMan / Light From Darkness-

As the Pup said stealth is a semi-magical ability and this is what allows an individual to hide even if they are standing right in front of you. If you want to see a person who is hidden, purchase the appropriate potions and place points into listen / spot. You can, however, see your item disappear as they steal it and will know someone is there even if you cannot see them.

Pup-

I agree with you. This is a risk everyone who drops their items on the ground takes. However, I would not be so much worried about another player stealing the items as the server crashing and losing them. It is very stable most of the time, but all it takes is one time to be unlucky!

Meldread

Pup-

I agree with you. This is a risk everyone who drops their items on the ground takes. However, I would not be so much worried about another player stealing the items as the server crashing and losing them. It is very stable most of the time, but all it takes is one time to be unlucky!

:lol:

two further points to consider as well,

If the thief does not set Dislike beforehand Once the thief runs away with a prized loot, you have to determine who took it, to then consider if he is or is not switched to Dislike, but then also look for a DM to mention there is a chance at PVP when required. Hmm, I would think that contacting a DM would be required first.

By the time I would have contacted a DM I don't think there would be time to find a thief who should be long gone, or right in with the rest of the peanut gallery grinning.

Bulky items Also when said item is armor for example, how does a thief hide such a large item without emoting you are carrying a hefty load. If the item stolen is small or compactable, it should be quite easy to hide. If an item is bulky such as a helm or armor isn't metagaming to be nonchalant when none can tell from your character you have it?

Things you will never hear in NWN: "Gee that man has a strange hump on his back that looks exactly like a dragon helm."

"Hmm, that little hin probably did not steal the plate armor because where would he hide it?"

Two good points that really make this an issue the DM's should have the final say on, though my opinion is that such theft is fine as long as it's treated as any other PvP situation (setting to hostile and having DM supervision to cover NPC's and other responses).

Pup

I also agree with following all the PvP rules and guidelines when attempting to steal from someone. That will help ensure fairness and fun for all.

Re: Joe: It isn't impossible to dissassemble sets of plate armour into their components and hide them in different compartments, fold chainmail, or chug that helmet right in at the bottom of the pack, is it?

A thing also to consider is that the NWN engine doesn't really support the usage of terrain to your advantage as a sneak, other than corner-stealthing.

If you're going to be dropping crap on the ground , then it's fair game - all the usual PVP rules applying (Set hostile, NPCs nearby needing a DM to watch etc). Ommadawn pretty much got it.

Light From Darkness The problem i see with this type of theift , is pcs useing there hide like HIPS* when its not. RP wise the moving of a item would break the hide as the person is now aware someone is there. And if your standing right in front of them..i would ask how? if you do not have HIPS*.

*HIPS[hide in plain sight]

stealth is in no way compareable to HIPS.... what also has to be taken into consideration is the unrepresented "NPC crowd" thats milling about in the market (or where ever) which almost every trained thief would easily be able to blend themselves into and escape...

this is how i see the stealth abilities anyways...

Bulky items Also when said item is armor for example, how does a thief hide such a large item without emoting you are carrying a hefty load. If the item stolen is small or compactable, it should be quite easy to hide. If an item is bulky such as a helm or armor isn't metagaming to be nonchalant when none can tell from your character you have it?

There is a thing called "theif" mode. You make a roll to conceal an item that you pick up, either off the ground or from a chest. The roll is easier to beat the smaller the item, so these "bulky" items you are worried about are still fair game, the theif just has to make a larger save.

Metro_Pack If you're going to be dropping crap on the ground , then it's fair game - all the usual PVP rules applying (Set hostile, NPCs nearby needing a DM to watch etc). Ommadawn pretty much got it.

QFT.