I've been playing here for a while off and on, and I've gone through a huge number of PCs (once they die more than a couple of times, I just retire them).

I'm about to make another PC, but I'm hoping for perhaps an easier ride through, so that I can get used to playing here again.

I saw the post for Monk tips, thought I'd ask for tips with stealth casters.

Such as...

Rogue/Wizard Rogue/Sorceror Bard

etc.

Thanks!

Remember, you can play pure casters, such as wizards and clerics, who can become quite stealthy too, even if you do have to cross-class.

Well, my current char Thorain is a stealth caster. Current levels are Rogue 3/Wizard 3/Ranger 1.

First 3 levels are usually best taken in either Wizard or Rogue, and once that is achieved, take the nest 3 levels in your second multiclass. This is because level 3 for both Rogue and Wizard unlocks abilities and spells (2d6 sneak attack for the rogue, 2nd level spells for the wizard). Alternatively, you can go for 1 level in Rogue as the first class, then go up to Rogue 1/Wizard 2, then take the 2nd level of rogue, 3rd level wizard and then 3rd level rogue - thus getting maximum number of skill points for the "sneaky" skills.

If you plan on playing a Stealth caster then, obviously, Hide and Move Silently will be the most (or two of the most) important skills. Open Locks, Search and Disable device are also good ones, just like any rogue. Wizard skills are probably Lore and Heal. A good idea with any Wizard classing is to choose a school of magic (which grants you +1 spell slot of all levels). The downside to this is that you will likely have to give up some of the more useful spells. Necromancy or Illusion are probably the best "themes" for a Stealth Caster, though Divination could work as well if you plan on being a spotter. Good/essential spells are, obviously: Flame Weapon, Cat's Grace, Ghostly Visage, Knock and - of course - Invisibility.

If you, like me, wish to boost the combat abilities and the stealth abilities significantly then you can grab Ranger levels as well. Their Trackless Step and Track abilities are very useful and fit the mold with the "stealth caster" concept. Alternatively, go straight Ranger/Wizard. Im pretty sure that one could prove interesting - or a Ranger/Sorc.

One pretty important thing to note about Stealth casters like this is that, aside from Sneaking and some rogue things, they're really not very useful in combat situations aside as flankers. They are pretty all-round useful, but they aren't top-notch when it comes to anything other than being very good sneaks.

Don't go Diviner if making a Stealth Caster. Losing Invisibility HURTS.

Also, if you plan on having sorcerer levels, remember that while you have those lovely more spells each day, you gain new spells slower than a wizard and you have fewer.

In example, to get the most precious Invisibility, a sorcerer needs to get to level 4. And that will be the only Level 2 spell you'll have, at that level.

I'd go pure wizard for these reasons:

- Intelligence as your prime requisite ability means more skill points. This will allow you to cross class in H/MS and also take the standard Spellcraft/Heal/Lore/Other.

- Faster spell level progression gets you to more effective hiding spells quicker. More flexibility in spell selection gets you... more flexibility.

- Bonus mage feat at level 5 means more feats to spend on Stealthy and SF: H/MS to boost your sneakability.

Illusionist is a fairly proper spell school also, as enchantment is not really all that necessary, though good in its own right.

You could also consider a stealthy cleric. Some of the domains, both Vanilla NWN domains and EfU domains, have some very useful rogue abilities and spells.

pfft ive been a stealth caster. prepare a bunch of invis. Get extened spell and pack those. I was able to walk around all of dunwarren and all of the sewers stealthing.

That's easily countered by a single potion or spell, The Good Doctor.

Play a wizard, straight up...make sure your dex is good, make sure that you memorize cat's grace and have it on you most of the time, take the feat: stealthy for the +2 hide/ms, cross class the hide and MS skills...

On EfU. a level 7 rogue would have a base hide of 10, which is only 5 higher than a cross classed PC, not to mention that a large portion of most PC's stealth skills come from gear, and that a wizard would have the dexterity bonus from cat's grace to add to their total hide and move silent score...

There's no reason that a wizard with the stealthy feat and a dex of 15 or higher couldn't hit 20 for both move silently and hide with the right gear, which is enough to evade detection from nearly all NPC's, and coupled with invisibility would make the PC incredibly hard to detect when you chose to be.

my 2 cents, Meow-mix!

But wouldn't it be -even better- to play both Wiz and Rogue?

Then you get all the cate grace stuff and whatnot, with the extra skill points but into hide and move silently, and sneak attack to go along with it?

I'm really just going for a sneak attacking character that can use magic to beef himself post battle, and to use as a back up (aka invisibility in case things go sour).

However, you'd lose the higher level spells which would increase your survivability tenfold.

It really depends if you're willing to sacrafice higher level spells for a few extra skill points in Hide/MS.

From all this information you've been given, I'm pretty sure you can form you own build to fit to specific needs!

Not just a "few skill points". Evasion/Improved Evasion, Sneak Attack, and other Class Skills (Disable/Set Trap, Search, Open Lock, et cetera) are also pretty damn good, coupled with some additional weapon proficiencies and ability to - when needed - grab some armour. However, if you make it to high levels (7+) you really should try to focus on one of them (going either rogue 5/wizard 3, for example, or rogue 3/wizard 5) or, like me, grab ranger levels (or levels in some other class you fancy). A build like that can get you Hide/Ms scores in the 30's (20's even without any gear).

You don't get Improved Evasion until level 10 or 11, levels that are almost impossible to reach, especially if you're cross-classing with wizard and taking 3-5 levels in that. He wasn't being specific about wanting skill points in Open Lock/Disable Device, so I merely thought he only wanted Hide/MS and perhaps Tumble, all of which can be cross-classed for some good bonuses. I stick by my decision that going pure stealth wizard is the best choice (in my opinion)! You can focus more on Skill Focus Hide/MS, Stealthy and sacrafice Spell Focus feats. Perhaps get Extend Spell for that lovely Extended Invis, this way, as well, your Dex buffs last even longer due to your Caster Level being higher than someone who cross classes.

Having played a pure wizard stealth spellcaster, I assure you your sneaking abilities will be fine, due to the plentiful items that will improve your skills. Although you may be no match to pure rogues stealth-wise, you're more likely to be more original!

Being a rogue I have to say that I feel that my stealth always sucks (21/22 as of now). There will always be a N/PC that can spot you. But unless you are exploring out in the underdark you should be realtively safe with a hide/ms of 15/15. Just don't go near anything you dont think you can handle just in case. And It all depends on the way you want to go. If you want to use healing wands take rogue for the UMD or the extra tumble AC at level 7. Stealthwise you should be fine, just dont expect to be pulling any roguish acts anytime soon. This is cause they generally require a large dose of stupidity, others may call it courage but they are wrong :wink: :wink: .

It seems you're looking at it from a strength-based point of view, where you'd like to get the best out of both classes. Playing a pure rogue or a pure wizard is likely better than a mix of both. You've got to consider the following:

- Spell durations will be much lower when equally multiclassing - Won't likely ever get to cast L4 spells, not to mention L3 if you keep your levels equal - Your AB will be rather low, with only a single attack and few HP, not backed up by high level spells or high sneak attack damage. - Yeah. Low sneak attack damage - Oh, yeah. Start as a Rogue (L1) if you intent to go through with it. Much more skill points made available to you that way.

Must say I second those that say going for a pure, cross-classing wizard is probably the way to go. You can get your hide/ms pretty high; and if played well, he'll have an easier time surviving.

Hmm... I think I'm ready to make a solid decision on what do to for my next PC. Thanks for all the responses, guys! =)