Because most who have are all Dm driven Npcs. No offence but curently as far as things are its always. Bad kickass Thug kicking ass then a bunch of good guys group buff and kill you.

As far as ive seen Lower when it was controlled by Dms is this scenario.

Oh I dont want to start something. Why not?

Because theres all these lvl 7 lower footmen plus the players in the faction combined will kill people.

I think its harder for players to just conqor lower because A If a single small group of players try anything they all will likely get killed. The reason I believe dm organasations controlling lower worked is because

1 Tough npcs you dont want to mess with. With great numbers to.

2 More organised.

3 THe fact that there is a bunch of npcs that protect you and pretty much beat people to the floor likely makes more players want to join.

4 I dont think its possible for a player faction to actually recruit any npcs or do much conqoring without being beaten.

5 Ive seen a player faction be here for months of Efu Without a single Npc. (stouthearts anyone,)

I honestly believe its really hard for a player group/faction to make a diference.

That's the beauty of it. I like how it is now. Most of Lower doesn't want anyone to govern for them.

Here's some more reasons for you: 1. No choke points. Upper has gates they can seal off, even the Canal Ward has a cave and a bridge. If you want to defend it, you need lots of people.

2. No one trusts anyone else. Why should they?

Sure, you can make a group that can change things, but what's in it for me and mine?

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I don't think it's impossible. While I'm realizing the fact that my main scheming character is still weak compared to a lot of other characters, as long as he can recruit enough PC's, he can make up for it in numbers. While the level thing is an issue, the only solution is: stay alive and get stronger so that you can become feared. Natural progression.

Gain levels--> Get to know more, strong, PC's---> recruit PC's

I think one of the worst obstacles to overcome with any player faction, not just a Lower takeover, is that it's going to take some time and work. A bunch of level four fighters aren't going to hold Lower for long.

And Upper's built like a fortress. Lower's the streets. Urban warfare, baby. Guerilla tactics, dodging into the sewers and over alley walls. Gotta love it.

This looks like an obstacle to tackle! Don't be surprised if you find a group of people trying to 'dominate' the horrid hellhole known as Lower Sanctuary..

And don't get so down! EfU is supposed to and can be hard. Harm is abundant, and death is plentiful. Especially in the the Lower parts of town, which is home to thugs, disease-carrying beggars, and of course, more entrances to the deeper, more dangerous tunnels of the Underdark.

The Ace Of Blades

Start with an alley and a "business partner". With a little ambition, who knows where it'll go from there?

Edit: Lower's the most available territory for characters to fight over. You can try to do anything with it, and there's no Council or Watch or Spellguard or Paladins to stop you. Some places have NPCs in control - gotta have a safe place to rest! But really, the control is for PCs to create.

Start with an alley and a "business partner". With a little ambition, who knows where it'll go from there?

I do! I do! Beheadings in the Town Hall! :lol:

But yea, the Lowers pwn. It's like Tortuga in Pirates of the Caribbean, or Hotel California from the famous Eagles song...

Wicked awesome.

Dr Dragon 5 Ive seen a player faction be here for months of Efu Without a single Npc. (stouthearts anyone,)

I honestly believe its really hard for a player group/faction to make a diference.

Except the stouthearts DID get an NPC. And the whole reason that Lower Sanctuary is in trouble in the first place is -because- of player factions, whom were the instigators of the 'trouble' in the first place. Just ask Canzah and MadCaddies about it. Before MC was a DM, he was the prime mover for the whole scenario you have today.

The whole world in "escape from the underdark" has altered dramatically, thanks to you people. Nothing is unachievable, frankly.

Yip! 8)

Kill the narchists first, evil people, GET TO IT!

Just my thoughts as member of Stouthearts (we have been going as a Player Faction for 14 months odd now, with 7 different leaders and counting).

There is something to be said for organic growth of a faction rather than, wam bam 1-2 months its started run and finished. I think this is what may be needed in lower, someone who slowly builds and becomes a permenant 'presence' in lower?

Don't get me wrong, the short very bright player Factions (Worn's stew shop etc.) are fantastic and add tonnes (probably more) than us slow burner factions (though i like to think we do our best), but it might be worth someone trying a different approach in lower than a quicker grab for power and control?

In regard to getting NPC's, i think it has to be believable, is someone in lower gonna join or even be near a group that has been around 2 minutes? Probably not. Are they gonna join after you have a faction base, regular known members etc. Probably yes.

On average, if you live your life on the server and spend every afternoon there, it takes around 5-6 months IRL to establish yourself as "ruler" - that is also assuming you do not conflict with other player-factions for control, in which case it will take considerably longer.

That place is a dump anyway.