Why is that chaotic good characters are not welcome at New Dunwarren?

I'm just guessing here but perhaps could it possibily have something to do with the cHaOtIc bit? Those lawful types like things very orderly don'tcha know? :wink:

Yeah, I can see it that way. Just seems odd that someone that serves good can't join others serving good because they do it differently.

That's the beauty of the Lawful/Chaotic axis. Strife between the two are sometimes even more fun than those between Good and Evil.

How does one know, merely by looking at you, that you are chaotic? It takes a paladin to see that you are evil...

FOIG, lulz.

The point of being chaotic is that, regardless of you're good-evil alignment, you're a radical. Thats probably why.

But know this New Dunwarren! Good luck getting a half-decent minstrel! Only Bard's here have the perform skill!

Halfbrood That's the beauty of the Lawful/Chaotic axis. Strife between the two are sometimes even more fun than those between Good and Evil.

I think so too. I even went so far once in a tabletop dnd game I was DMing that I said, there is no good and evil. There is only law and chaotic. (and of course netural).

It was an experiment, and it would have worked decently enough, but hey... Players do love the added title of good or evil. *shrugs*

Biggest problem was the spells that became useless.

Anyway... Chaotic good hangs a man who committed murder of a child. Lawful Good, persecutes him, alienates him, then sentences him to 19 consecutive lifetime sentences, just in case.

See how these two wouldnt get along?

Boondock Saints... now thats Chaotic Good for ya.

Nero24200 The point of being chaotic is that, regardless of you're good-evil alignment, you're a radical. Thats probably why.

But know this New Dunwarren! Good luck getting a half-decent minstrel! Only Bard's here have the perform skill!

Lol, no more ballads about Matterheim.

So paladins can detect chaos now as well as detect evil? When will it end?!

Death to paladins, death to Torm, death to Wern8!

Paladins can't. Clerics can. There's also a spell that will prevent people of a certain alignment basis from entering.

In PnP, there's not just "Detect Evil" as a spell - there's Detect Good, Law and Chaos as well.

Last time I checked, my last cleric couldn't cast detect evil or detect chaos.

Correct me if, by some freak occurence, I'm wrong, but the "Detect Evil" that Paladins are using isn't a spell, but rather a supernatural ability granted by their deity to assist their faithful in their complete and utter destruction of all things naughty and unkind.

The gates are sanctified, which protects New Dunwarren against invading forces of Chaos, and Evil which would bring corruption and instability and the aberrant. Always the aberrant.

It doesn't help if you worship torm as your patron and are chatoic though...

That shouldn't happen. Torm is Lawful. I shouldn't think his dogma and teachings would be attractive to somebody who is non-lawful, or someone with a Chaotic alignment.

Halfbrood Correct me if, by some freak occurence, I'm wrong...

Halfbrood ... but the "Detect Evil" that Paladins are using isn't a spell, but rather a supernatural ability...

Touche, douche.

That doesn't even rhyme!

<3

It wasn't meant to. :( They're just spelt similarly.

Halfbrood That shouldn't happen. Torm is Lawful. I shouldn't think his dogma and teachings would be attractive to somebody who is non-lawful, or someone with a Chaotic alignment.

Actually it would depend on the person i have a charchter who was converted to torm by a priest and is of chaotic alignment.

I should also add that the FR rule book states that patron dieties generally attract similar minded followers however there are expetions to every rule. The alignement restrictions would not really matter unless your a cleric or paladin. (or if some gate burns you cause it dislikes you).

The rulebook also says that follower's alignments would not be drastically different from the alignment of the God. Lawful to Chaotic is about as drastic as Good to Evil.

Torm's dogma deals with such things as upholding law and order, providing service, etc. Things that a chaotic character actively works against. If they don't follow the dogma of Torm, they're not really worshipping him and if they are following the dogma, they're being Lawful.

A Chaotic Good character does not need to actively work against law and order. There are no hard and fast rules for what a chaotic character "must" do. A Chaotic character that is Good can provide service for others, be a responsible member of the community, et cetera. Chaotic Good is diametrically opposed to Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil, while Lawful good is diametrically opposed to Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil.

There is no universal rule that says Chaotic Good and Lawful Good must be at odds - but it often ends up that way because of the people interpret the way Lawful or Chaotic characters "should" act. You, as a Lawful character, do not *need* to hate all Chaotic characters and wish to smite them down for being infidels - a smart Lawful character could realize the usefullness of their methods, without agreeing to them. "Agreeing to Disagree", after all, is more likely a "Good" behaviour than a strictly "Lawful" or "Chaotic" - or if either, then more "Lawful" than chaotic.

Your character can worship whatever deity they want - whether or not their deity will invite them to the afterlife to hang out for all eternity is another matter. By the same token, while alive, only those followers who actively follow a deity's dogma can hope to get their patron's attention (almost always clerics, paladins and champions, and maybe other divine prestige classes). Paying lip-service to Torm may garner favor with his mortal servants, but it doesn't give you any special sway over a magic gate.

Additionally, a lawful character should (generally) regard chaotic methods as dangerous, foolish, and/or ultimately self-destructive. Intelligence (or Wisdom) is not a way to interpret alignment or create exceptions to a higher power's dogma.

The point i was trying to make is that a charchter can be of an opposite alignment and be working towards making himself another alignment hence chaotic to lawful. As such i have one who is currently sitting on chatoic but who is played in a lawful manner as he is trying to get lawful.

That was never what Halfbrood was talking about.

I once knew a Chaotic Evil Wererat Tormite. No joke. Played by one of EfU's own DM Team.

Anythings possible.

Additionally, a lawful character should (generally) regard chaotic methods as dangerous, foolish, and/or ultimately self-destructive. Intelligence (or Wisdom) is not a way to interpret alignment or create exceptions to a higher power's dogma.

Wouldn't that depend, though? Not everybody are extremely insightful clerics with a hotline to Torm to check in just exactly how the universe is working.

It doesn't matter what a mortal thinks they know about Good, Evil, Law and Chaos; they are cosmic absolutes. Just because someone doesn't know how electrons fill an atom's energy levels doesn't make them right when they make up their own rules about it.

Edit: In a world ruled by mortals who may or may not know cosmic truths, it's fine to persuade them that Hydrogren has a five electrons in its first energy level or that you're really a Lawful Good Tyrran. You can't fool the magic gate blessed with power originating from Torm though, if you're really a Chaotic Good follower of Sharess or something.

Well, never said they were going to be right about it, did I? Just said that it wouldn't be an impossible perspective. Whether it's correct or not is obviously an entirely different matter. ;)

Berosion

Additionally, a lawful character should (generally) regard chaotic methods as dangerous, foolish, and/or ultimately self-destructive. Intelligence (or Wisdom) is not a way to interpret alignment or create exceptions to a higher power's dogma.

Wouldn't that depend, though? Not everybody are extremely insightful clerics with a hotline to Torm to check in just exactly how the universe is working.