By request: A proposed solution to the issue with the Door levers that allow criminals an undue chance at escaping the Watch House.

Simple enough, I would suggest making the levers themselves lockable/unlockable, with no chance of Lockpicking them. (save that for the doors, if at all), with the key as the resref for either the Watch Key, Defender Amulet, or Guard Rod.

Ideally there could also be a timer of about 10-25 minutes on the Lever when locked that'll make it force-unlock and broadcast a "*click*"

The point of all this is to create a period of time in which a Watchman can prevent a criminal recently released from their cell from abusing the lever to leave, without having to resort to subduing them by force (which can create some messy IC and OOC situations that should not occur). In this time, the Watchman can hold the criminal until it's determined whether he's to be arrested again for further questioning, or moved, or whatever else.

The timer on the lock is to prevent the lever from going forgotten, and completely nullifying the point of the levers in the first place. While the lever, if it does indeed go forgotten, and a criminal is released, he may be stuck there for a short time longer than he was meant to be, but not permanently, as he would without the levers at all - seeing as the levers would unlock themselves before too long. Most often within the time frame of the inmate's sentence.

An additional fix to this could be to see if any Member of the Watch Faction is in game, or has been in game recently (as recent as 3-5 minutes, to prevent problems), and if so, leave the lock on the lever alone. Else, to force unlock the lever, bypassing the timer on it that works automatically.

Of course, all these problems could be fixed as simply as having Watchmen who are perfect and always remember to release their criminals and unlock things; but that's impractical. As much as we want to be able to remember the details, and as hard as we try to, there are times when we forget.

If it isn't too hard to implement, I second this. Good idea, Kotenku!

I vote Lock!

:D

When we slime drow had our own hideout, we were warned to never lock anyone in. I realize this is not an exact analogy, but the standard remains. If your char may be killed, he should have at least a very minimum chance of escape. I realize being captured by the Watch means you are pretty much screwed, but the remote chance of escape makes it far more interesting. I believe the DMs have intentionally left a way for people to escape/be rescued. I could be wrong.

I think it's silly to say that the Watch shouldn't be able to lock people in.

But I see Pup's point -- there should be at least a remote chance of escape -- and that could be done by having a very high Open Lock DC on the doors/levers. They'd have to be unaffected by the spell Knock, though, since that'd be too easy. I'd suggest making them (remotely) bashable, too, but then that could be abused by people who don't realize that it's not ok to bash a door open in a NPC-populated area just 'cause you can. (Ie, players new to roleplaying.)

Then again, if a captured criminal wants to escape from prison, that's definitely a situation where a DM should be present anyways -- and a DM can, of course, give a required Open Lock DC manually in such a situation, even if the doors normally cannot be opened without the key. So, this might be just a lot of hassle for little gain.

i think they should stay the same i mean the guards port you to a opened cell and you can open the locked doors on your own i mean its a crimanils dream i mean being ported there is just stupid i think the guards should have shackles that make you come along depending on their str and either you can pull them or they can pull you and you can put up a fight and be able to take them down somehowwhile they are busy trying to drag you to the prison thats how its on another server by friend told me and i heard its really fun to get caught there :D atleast you should not be ported there i mean so what if its magic atleast that magic should bring the guards there too so you can't walk out on them while they are coming back to the cells

I love that remote chance of escaping. :roll:

I'm against locking the of the levers, as a escapee from the watchhouse, I found it a very enjoyable (and fun thanks to DM's) experience and leaves multiple ways of escaping. It just sounds dumb to me that your being dragged back to your cell because of "Damn this lever is stuck" As for the messy PvP situations, theres enough cell guards there to ensure the criminal never wins unless they are insanely powerful.

No this is about logic people.

Lets think about this. The watch house is a PRISON. it should not even have levers to open the doors. The watchmen have keys to them. The only purpose those levers serve is if someone is locked up, and no PC Watchman nor DM has the time to go let them out after their sentence is finished. They are there because the NPC cell guards who just so happen to be watching the criminals, will let them out once their time is served.

They are not here in any way to help the facilitate a criminals escape.

Daemonic Daz I'm against locking the of the levers, as a escapee from the watchhouse, I found it a very enjoyable (and fun thanks to DM's) experience and leaves multiple ways of escaping. It just sounds dumb to me that your being dragged back to your cell because of "Damn this lever is stuck" As for the messy PvP situations, theres enough cell guards there to ensure the criminal never wins unless they are insanely powerful.

And I have to ask... "It sounds dumb that the doors on a prison are locked?" What? You're in Jail! If you can break out with a dm, thats one thing, but we have players that have just walked out without one. Thats our issue. We've had a few cases where we had to control and arrest entire crowds of people. The Rp in these cases never cease. However, some poeple who are arrested for questioning, can just walk out of the jail before we even get everyone back. That is not IC. The Cell guards are NPC's they cannot see or understand a situation. They are programmed to do the same things in times of crisis, as they are on an empty server.

Pup When we slime drow had our own hideout, we were warned to never lock anyone in. I realize this is not an exact analogy, but the standard remains. If your char may be killed, he should have at least a very minimum chance of escape. I realize being captured by the Watch means you are pretty much screwed, but the remote chance of escape makes it far more interesting. I believe the DMs have intentionally left a way for people to escape/be rescued. I could be wrong.

With Dm's you can Rp escapes. You have something like... 4-5 cell guards to run past no matter what direction you take. You have to break out of a locked cell. A locked cell that doesn't open unless your time was up anyhow. So if you can manage an "escape" those levers are not there for your easy access out, nor does locking them make it impossible for you to escape. If you have a Dm, (which you better have as there are NPC guards watching your arse) Then you can try to pick the locks, break down the doors, your options are not longer limited to the day to day necessities of the scripts. You have a DM.

We dont like leaving people to rot in a cell. The time limit is often times ignored and replaced by Rp. It is not fun for anyone to sit there all day in a cell. This is not the intention of this suggestion. As for killing people inside cell, we have to have a Dm for that anyway. So thats a moot point.

We would only use this suggestion when the Rp took longer then the Standard time limit on your sentence. (a time limit created to keep people from getting locked up and left there.) If the Arresting officer is talking to you, you should not be able to use an npc script to hop out of the jail, nor should you be able to stroll out of the watch house. It is very OOC to hop out like that to begin with. And its already OOC enough, without us having to create more PvP and rearrest you. This suggestion is to allow us to complete the RP we're having with prisoners.

It would have a short time limit. And would only be used when the PC guard is standing there issuing order to the Npcs. And allowing us to talk to people in cells. This suggestion doesn't even hurt your ability to escape legitimately. I dont want to have to turn an Rper into the Dm for using the scripted time releases to escape the watchman standing in front of them. I don't think thats fair to anyone.

The only downside would be if we crashed and didn't log back in. You would have to wait an extra few minutes for the doors to unlock.

Setting aside Sergeant Butt-wad's rant (I didn't read it, I'll get back to it later, maybe. <.<)

This wasn't really submitted for the public approval, truthfully. The DMs requested an alternate method of handling things, and until we could provide one, the levers were to remain in.

I understand your analogy Pup, but with all due respect, the Watch is going to be having a lot more prisoners in its cells than a secretive cult that hides in an extremely infrequently travelled portion of the Sewers. There are far more times we have someone in, and therefore we will forget far more often. The issue the levers attempt to solve is when a Watchman logs out while a criminal is still in a cell, and the criminal can't leave even when his time is up. The problem the levers cause is obvious.

It should -only- be possible to escape the Watch House with DM oversight, because anything less is ignoring the half dozen cell guards posted in the hallway, plus the entire garrison of Watchmen who would leap to stop an escapee at a moment's notice.

:(

Yeah That was a long rant. I prolly could've made it much smaller.

If the Watch requires someone to remain in prison then why don't they simply put them into a capital cell? There have been times when I've had characters arrested for very minor charges, and after my time in prison was up I simply left. What was the point in staying? I broke the law, I was punished and sent to prison. Once my time in jail was served, the guard let me out and I left.

If you need someone for questioning and you -have- to arrest them in order to do that questioning, then why aren't they placed in the capital cells? It seems it would be easier that way, even if you had to arrest large numbers of people - all of them in the capital cells - until you can sort things out.

Unless the DM's specifically say this is not allowed, I don't see what is wrong with handling things in this manor.

We have only two Capital cells. They are tiny.

Then maybe more of those are needed? It seems that would be easier than trying to come up with a solution to the levers, and would largely solve the problem.

Not really.

We cant put someone in a Capital cell unless we arrest them on Capital charges. More Capital cells doesn't help.

This suggestion isn't all that hard to script. Its a key/lock situation with a timer for unlock.

The levers are the issues, and they are there for ooc reasons. This allows us a small bit of IC control.

I've been in prison for different amounts of time. I'm not sure how the arrest wands work, but I've been in prison for as short as 5 min and as long as 45 min. Can't they just be placed in there for a longer amount of time to achieve the same result? (After all if you can't get to them in 45 min... do you honestly expect them to wait there and do nothing if their time is up?)

I see what you guys are getting at, though and agree with the basic premise behind the idea. However, preferentially I'd prefer prisoners to remain in their cells rather than trapped behind a door that simply won't open. It creates other problems, such as when they hear you coming - there time is up and they are outside the cell - and they drink an invisibility potion, or begin hiding/sneaking to escape when you open the door.

Meldread (After all if you can't get to them in 45 min... do you honestly expect them to wait there and do nothing if their time is up?)

I didn't realize the original post was meant to try to prevent OOC abuse. It reads as if you just want the prison escape-proof, in which case I stand by my post.

[edit] I want to add that Kotenku's ideas make sense, and now that I fully understand what he was getting at, I agree.

Sorry. No, it's not that I want the prison escape-proof. I just don't want those levers to be a method of IC escape, since ICly it makes absolutely no sense for them to even exist.

Ah, alright that makes more sense.

Solution: When your time is up and you speak to the guard, instead of him teleporting you outside the prison door, have him teleport you to near the exit of the Watch House. (ICly it can be RPed as him "escorting" you past the locked doors.) Remove the levers and let faction members focus on keeping the doors locked or unlocked with their keys.

I'm not sure of the script involved, but I assume it uses waypoints. All that would need to be done is to have the waypoints moved, which would take like five seconds.

I was under the impression that you wanted people to remain in their prison cell even after time was up, so that they could be released by a PC guard.

That's no good either. There are times when we want, and have reason to- keep prisoners for stays longer than their prescribed sentence. Having them get teleported out upon the end of their sentence is bad.

Look, folks, I don't want to come off as an elitist (I guess I am anyway), but I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

I think I'm going to just ask a DM to lock this thread, and the suggestion can continue in the Watch Forum. Because this has gotten utterly ridiculous.