The last few days have demonstrated my ability to screw up a cup of coffee at times. What with dropping three levels in a day on a particularly chaotic event and nubstyling my favorite scrappa's face in with a color spray wand...which ended in his PC's untimely demise at the hands of a horde of ill tempered goblins...I've found myself fumbling around with skills about the likes of which I surpassed about two years ago in NwN :)

But it got me thinking about those days. About how meager a player I was when I first started...when it was all new? My first experiences on an RP-NWN server were on CoA. At that time, I had decided that I would be the first player ever to concoct a totally original childspeaking CG halfling rogue. This lovely little example of undeniable cliche came to be known as "Weaver."

I remember how my mentally challenged mode of speech dazzled (and burned) the eyes of all who came upon the misfortune of viewing it, and I remember also all the plots I screwed the pooch on, and all the quests I accidentally contributed to wiping in full.

I surpassed these things (to some degree, please no heckling! I'm fragile!) only because a small handful of players took it upon themselves to take me under their wing as a mitzvah...Sure, it was ridiculous to have my babbling happy little child of a halfling (Ugh, I cringe at the sheer stereotypical crap she was at times, especially since it was wrong!) going through the stories and learning the ropes in the company of the dreaded Banite modsquad, but they made it work in order to make me feel welcome.

For the most part our server is an open and friendly one, and I for one do my best to offer the same consideration to the new arrivals of our quaint little world, and I am not alone. Still, even I often have moments where I discriminate against the newer or less experienced players for the sake of completing a difficult quest easier or having a mini-plot progress more smoothly. But I wonder if my experiences and the fun I've had with all of you would have come to be if I had been turned away way back then.

Especially in these times, when new players arrive less and less frequently, I think that even the best of us need to consider this and make a conscious effort to improve our efforts to integrate the old with the new and get everyone in step with this, our digital home.

That's my 2 cents. Meow-mix

I agree entirely. Some of the threads on these forums bother me because I think there is a subtle elitism pervading what we're talking about. Rules are nice and all, but being a new player is daunting enough in such a unique but complex setting, we don't need to add more stress or unwritten rules. Be nice and polite when you're addressing new players, because soon enough they'll be just as good as any of us. Keep in mind how you were like when you first started when you're judging them, and keep it in perspective. Not everyone is going to start out an expert!

I know I've been through my fair share of growing as a roleplayer (on CoA, and on EfU) and players who treated me well though I was subpar, or involved me despite my idiocy, have made a huge and positive impact in how I am as a player.

I can do nothing but agree, seeing as I've grown quite the bit since I came to EfU myself. Just take a look at Thomas or Dr. Dragon, I think they're both good examples of how a player can improve if only given a chance to do so.

With that said, let's play nice. ;)

Did you meet Grantie yet? Thomas' new monk/caster is phenomenal. I kind of wanted to send him praises through tells, but I thought it would be a tad otaku-esque of me, so I just played along as best I could. I think Thomas is the everyman of the new players, and if I'm anywhere close to right, then it does my heart good to see new players find their RP zen.

I am grateful for new players, who remind me constantly that I'll never be the -best- RPer; it doesn't work that way. I always have something new to learn, and I think EfU is a great environment to learn in.

I wish I knew who was new and who wasn't. Everyone plays under a moniker these days.

Here here! I agree totally. Ive only been on this server a few months having only just hooked up to the net after a rather extended period. Looking back at me earlier characters i have seen that i have grown quite a bit since a few months back and i am really pleased with it. New players should be treated with respect since as ya said, they could get their own back...

Ew, you guys used to be newbs?

I don't wanna play with you anymore.

<shifty eyes>

scrappayeti I wish I knew who was new and who wasn't. Everyone plays under a moniker these days.

Burn the noob Kill the lowbie. Purge the un1337.

Ladocicea Burn the noob Kill the lowbie. Purge the un1337.

ARGHHH! (Runs away)

I'm new to the server. I created a character recently and did a few newbie quests, and people were doing a good job in pointing directions to a newbie like me. :)

But I'm going to start a new, more interesting character, soon.

Cheers, -Santista

Ladocicea Burn the noob Kill the lowbie. Purge the un1337.

*a sign reading "Help Wanted" is put up in front of the DMs' office window*

I arrived on this server in february, and it was my first online rpg experience ever. On the first minute of arrival, someone said "hey there's a job, why don't you come." :D A few days later, another one sends me a tell "come with me i'll show you some tips: hotkeys, tells, emotes, etc..." :D My first forum post was adressed in less than a day by DMs. :D

Sooooo.... :?:

I've kept playing and already feel like an old campaigner(ess?) :twisted:

Of course, most remarks on the forum are "elistist" in the sense that they address mainly technical issues or tiny details. 8)

But EfU is really nice (world, DMs, players) to new players, and i try to welcome them as i was welcomed. Thanks for thinking of new players, getting them to play (and not loiter around town hall even if you want a 3 PC team!), and making them discover the world, the game, the team. :D

I love this thread. I had never played on an RP server until I found EfU just over a year ago. I have learned a ton from direct advice, example, and of course: Reading every thread ever written on the forums. Get reading newcomers! :P

Grantie was just supposed to be a side charctor....now, I don't know what to think about him....he is just so much better than Tren Wettias!

Ladocicea Burn the noob Kill the lowbie. Purge the un1337.

I think in one way or another we all have a little n00b in us yet. Trying new and different character types can test ones ability...or maybe it's just getting plots rolling that is your bane. I think we all have someone to look up to here, and it's nice to know help is only a WTF? U gUyz wnat 2 questZ? tell away.

To show my l337 side has a sense of responsibility....Yesterday I read this:

https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/22/22932/flesh-to-drow-prelude/index.html

As I made ready to post a response, I remembered that for many of us, English isn't their first language. I also figured not everyone is a FR expert. And I showed mercy, and declined to post at all, not wanting to offend a new player who had an interesting idea, but lacked just a bit in execution.

Now...had I been a spiteful bastard like Lado, I may have posted something more akin to This: http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dengar01pt3.jpg But let the record state...I did not >_>

When I started on CoA I had the benefit of having my brother, Sedarine, show me the ropes. Not everyone has that plus. One thing about that community and EfU is that there are players that are willing to help out getting people started. Everyday isnt full of quests and important Rp, so you can take time to show people around, introduce them to impressive characters for a taste of RP, give them the dos and donts, etc. I think when faced with elitism there are more or less two kinds of folk. Ones that will be discouraged and ones that will rise to the occasion. It is not any of our places to decide who should and shouldnt play alongside our characters. It is each persons choice as to whether server X is the right place for them. Water finds its own level. The good folks will stick around and the newbs will get better. I think that a lt of the harshness that comes about is all in good fun for the most part. We all screw with each other in IRC and IG, but at the end of the day most of us are cool with each other. And why shouldnt we be? If it werent for this game, most of us wouldnt know each other. Personally, I have made friendships in CoA and EfU that I truely cherish. Even though in many cases I couldnt pick those people out of a police line up. Not everyone is going to love everyone else, but we've all been alot for one another.

I define elitism in a broad sense as any non-inclusive playstyle. Whether that stem from thinking you are better than someone else, that you despise their weak RP skills, or their weak build. I also put in the elitism slot clique questing, where quests are done over and over again in a mechanistic fashion to further your own character alone (ie-gaining leet potions, more gold, more XP in the quickest fashion possible). Not this type of play includes no one but the little clique, and really very little RP occurs outside of getting to the higher levels to accomplish "X" goal, whatever it may be.

The players I reward drive interesting RP throughout their level ranges. Inclusive does not mean you have to include everyone on your quests. It means interaction and RP, and straying outside a clique.

Edit for grammatical errors I caught. Probably a few still remain.

This Clique probably means me as well....god I love doing gnolls.....NOTHING TOUCHES ME! **28 ac rules**

I can remember when I got on the server, and all the nice people doing nice things to turn me from totally sucky into the RPer I am today. I've never been that much of an elitist due to my ability to die bringing Mikkelson his letter, but I know what it's like to be looked down upon and to look down upon other players.

Down with Elitism! Up with friendly and uncaring love for any player, no matter whether they be the best RPer in the world, or can't spell cat without a dictionary!

Your opinion doesn't count SFP, you noob. :twisted:

I know I have often claimed to be an elitist, and actually still like to claim this position (out of no other way than to annoy you people), but I do apply a different term to this. Going as hardcore as AD&D allows you to, and no sappy middle-ground. However, I fully support TheBeggar's view on what he considers to be 'elitists', even though this is not a term I'd describe to them. They are called 'powergamers' in my back. Helping out new people is very important, and I can personally attest to this. Prior to Escape from the Underdark, I have played on another server for two years no one has ever once tried to involve my in plots, or help me on my way. I had to master the Advanced Basics myself. Only Escape from the Underdark, did I ever really get stimulated to perform greater deeds. Being one of the original players, I found that playing along the server's best roleplayers did stimulate me to act better, to improve. It didn't even take a lot of time, just to apprehension that plots are the main key to roleplaying. All else comes second. It is very easy to pass these messages along, provided the receiving player is open to these ideas. Likewise, in nature of an unrewarding time on this previous server, I now try to help newer players out. God knows I don't always help them, and God knows I laugh about them behind their backs. But that's okay, because I often do help them. And besides, I am just a horrible bastard who mocks everyone. I mean, come on. Who can say Coldburn didn't act like Coldburn on the Dengar post? I don't discriminate, and treat everyone as equals. Except for women and Polaks.

I don't play currently but when I did I always noticed a little elitism and cliqishness but also that DMs tended to reward players more who distanced themselves from the sort of OOC social networking that these servers are prone to. The most cliquish of players are not incredibly good at powerquesting, they only trust each other and know what to expect. I've seen some new players do just as well with good situational awareness and fast reflexes. Towards the end of me playing regularly (this Jan) it was much harder for me to get the average person to go out and do stuff while when I first started (Feb 06) it was really easy. If it's because of the perception that you need cliques to get ahead, it's always been and will be completely wrong.

I don't think there's anything wrong consistently with playing with friends, or players whom you like to play with. We are, afterall, playing for personal enjoyment, and not out of some sense of duty.

Rather, the problem is ostracising or ignoring other/new players.

I've never been that much of an elitist due to my ability to die bringing Mikkelson his letter, but I know what it's like to be looked down upon and to look down upon other players.

At least you didn't die to Mikkelson. Unlike me.

9lives I don't think there's anything wrong consistently with playing with friends, or players whom you like to play with. We are, afterall, playing for personal enjoyment, and not out of some sense of duty.

Rather, the problem is ostracising or ignoring other/new players.

I think that's a good way of putting it in a nutshell.

I always, always, always enjoy best with characters that are gregarious by nature. There is, of course, a place for secluded loners - anyone that has played even a remotely successful drow realises quite how lonesome an existence it can be, foregoing prefabricated OOC alliances - however, personally, I try to meet and greet as many people as I can and get involved with them wherever I can.

This falls down of course when somebody instantly rejects even the chance to interact with me.

Now, with the current state of player maturity, I can't see a thread even as lucid and well written as Meow-Mix's work here in this thread changing anything, but for what it's worth, i'll boil everything I feel on the matter down to a simple paragraph:-

Every single character on EfU should have an opinion or at least a general 'feeling' about your character, either negative or positive. You should never, ever refuse the chance to interact with someone that wants to interact with you, particularly if they are new to the server. Ignoring a person is just about the most terrible thing you can do, because they come away feeling empty, and having bad feelings. Giving them a negative reaction is better than none at all, when it comes to roleplaying.

As harsh as the campaign world is, EfU has a tremendously diverse player base. I know this server is home to players who are much stronger with roleplay than the mechanics of point-and-click spawnfighting. (Yes, myself included. My first PC had some sort of ECL attached to her and made it to level 6 on RP XP alone.)

Nuclear Catastrophe Ignoring a person is just about the most terrible thing you can do, because they come away feeling empty, and having bad feelings.

I know from the perspective of an oldtimer, it makes logging in less appealing when you know you'll only get a 5-minute window for roleplay until someone grabs the UrdlenPossessedBeholderZombieFetishCultofDeath quest and makes off with half the PCs (and others) your PC needs to get ahold of.

It does feel like being left behind to watch the dog and it does feel like any effort you make in-game is simply not as important as being good with PC building. And, of course, we all know that's simply untrue.

I can imagine may scenarios, however, when clique-questing is a must (especially on higher level quests, with actively-roleplaying players). You can't play the secret cult of Mask with your Priests handing out blessings when Joe Blow the new-guy comes along. "Oh, so you guys are in a thief's guild, right? Tsk, tsk! Guess what I'll be telling the Watch!" - In this situation, you can not fool me into believing it is preferable for all parties to invite 'outsiders', as opposed to having to (often) subdue them.' However, when you have a feeling they are of a similar opinion, you can always take them along. But please, don't take the Lawful Good Priest of Torm whom you've never interacted with before. (Unnecessary) death ensues.

Actually, I can understand clique-questing when it's a secret faction of uberness, that sort of thing.

My previous comment was intended for generalised clique-questing when it's entirely IC for your highish-level PC to be brought along as another insider. That burns.

It makes any RP efforts feel less like a fun game and more like a chore. Fortunately, clique-questers at the higher levels are also good at RP, so EfU's plot arcs rawk along.

Nuclear Catastrophe

There is, of course, a place for secluded loners - anyone that has played even a remotely successful drow realises quite how lonesome an existence it can be, foregoing prefabricated OOC alliances - however, personally, I try to meet and greet as many people as I can and get involved with them wherever I can.

As that lone drow guy, I can tell you...it is lonely. I think that was/ is the most difficult character I have played. Shortly after his inception IG events crushed some of my goals, and then the persistant storage going offline for an extended period wiped nearly the rest. Then came too much work/ too little play. I continue to look at him as a work in progress...he has been sort of the living embodiment of my inner n00b. He may be 7th level, but I feel he hasn't accomplished anywhere near what I had hoped for him. Maybe I can turn it around...maybe it'll just never happen, I suppose time will tell.

I guess my point is simple...try, try and try some more. Suceed or die trying..then try some more! Practice does make perfect, or so the saying goes.