...srsly.

What is wrong with people here? After dying the final time to my party stuffing up, and then my corpse vanishing so I cannot be raised, I have gotten just a little bit aggravated. It's just as tiresome each time it happens - because there's very little way of recouperating from that kind of loss with a char like that. Playing a rogue or a "not fighter" (or "not wizard/cleric") build here works fine as long as the ones covering your back do not stuff up - the problem is, they inevitably do. Repeatedly - especially since they refuse to listen to any advice (and usually refer to any type of use of tactics or terrain as "illegal" or "luring" - truth or not). And since you cannot just madly powerfarm XP with a rogue, bard, rogue/wizard or suchever build (well, not usually, anyway) it hurts doubly when someone messes up and you loose 1/3 of that xp which It's taken you a month or so to accumulate. That's basically getting kicked in the groin for 10 days of playtime every time it happens.

Especially, as each time it happens, it could have been *so* easily avoided. I am tired to death of mr Powerbuild Barbarian rushing madly into combat, stuffing up, and dragging the entire party to their deaths. There's a video of this happening in WoW on Youtube which illustrates it quite vividly, but I can't remember the address to it. Regardless, the fact that people cause my char's death (and that of their own chars in the process) over and over and over and over in the same way without changing just pisses me off something insanely. Just use what you've been given that sits inside your skull and you won't get killed, for crying out loud! It's not that difficult!

Jesus. Im outta here. May be back. Need a break either way.

Now THAT is what i call a rant!

However i do understand what you are getting at. My character died the other day cos some fool charged forward into the damn clowns...

Chillax my brothers, death happens!

As a general rule, not unless someone in your party acts a tit and stuffs up. And that's the thing, y'see.

As rants go thats an epic but one with a damn good point. Dont let it get to you though mate. The power questing is really annoying especially like you say as most of it is done by powerbuild combat characters that bring as much death to their own party as the enemy on some quest. (Clowns as Ian pointed out being one of the best examples) Daft thing is this is an RP server, if you play it right you can make a great character who gets most of his Exp from RP stuff and still have that shiny Full Plate and all the trimmings for when you do go clubbing (monsters or just out for a wee dance depending on your mindset). I've had around... got to be 50 characters on this server and most have met death because of some nutter running around like a madman. But in the end I supose its one more thing that makes EFU such an interesting server to play on for its actually got a survival feel to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI4G9kGma-0

Some moron stepped on a fire trap today.

What would concern me is the belief that any use of tactics is an "exploit" that I have noticed myself.

I don't think running up, getting an entire group of foes to follow you into an ambush is exactly an exploit. It often would work in the world.

I was even told once that "luring" zombies and running around sniping them with a crossbow was exploitive. As if zombies are at all smart enough to spread out and ensure someone doesn't run around them sniping.

Sometimes it gets silly, and the worse is when a party is running through a quest and no one is talking or roleplaying--just hacking and slashing--then someone warns you "its metagaming to the rat matriarch looks tougher than the other rats"--because, you know-its only twice the size.

All the same Berosian, that's why a lot of people try to quest with characters they know IC who won't rob them blind if they die. It happens that some people will let you die just to loot you, and its very tough for DMs or other players to always try to stop it.

I've been on quests where a player dies and I grabbed all their loot immediately to save it for them. I've even had LG characters smite down people robbing the dead before we even "checked for a pulse" to see if they were respawning.

This is what I've found to be effective.

Be -selective- with your party members. If a character screws up once, never travel with him again. Your character probably considers their life precious even more than you as a player consider his. That said, so long as its IC, I don't have a problem with how other characters decide to approach quests, it makes it a whole lot more fun than the standard, dull grind when the wizard buffs himself and decides to frontline.

The problem is, that it seems a mostly OOC problem (for all the reasons mentioned), and not an IC one. Additionally, if I were to travel only with people I knew wouldn't stuff up, I would basically have to discard 60% of the entire server population. The problem is that these 60% are mostly made up of the people that I am forced to rely on for protection during quests - namely, Fighters and Barbarians (and occassionally Clerics and Paladins, the latter tending to be so stupid you can use them to smash bricks, who -despite having a high Intelligence and Charisma score and being Lawful Good - act as if they were Neutral Evil and run around acting like mad twats high on power).

Seriously. The thing is, that it has an unusual occurance rate here (higher than that I've ever ever seen on any other server) and it becomes VERY clear due to the rather tough death penalties here (which I do not object to - I merely object to the cause of death...).

...not to mention that in order to be able to find people to adventure with in the first place, I sort of by necessity need to make my way around by trial-and-error. This, needless to say, creates a bit of a loose-loose situation. Either way, I can't stand this right now. I've tried playing fighters, clerics and mages too, and it all comes down to that main problem - you're always left in the shit by your own party. Whatever the class, that's the main source of death (although it becomes particularly visible with rogues).

Anyways. I need a break from here, since this crap looks like it's gonna keep on. Cya.

...Solution?

Quit NWN or deal with uncooperative players.

I don't think these players will go away with a rant or with a dm big brother program.

It does suck when you character dies from somthing like that, though I'm -all- for a big brother program, though not the kind you might think

Day 42 in the big brother house, the mayor's been assasinated and 3 more characters permadead today..

If you are serious about living, make sure you have the stuff to survive as a rogue! Hotkey invis and right next to it some retreat potions. -Tell- you party if they want a scout, that they stay tha hell back! To many times the lack of traps is metagamed, all it takes is a marauding DM to drop one in and all of a sudden *BAM* they remember they have a scout! Odd...isn't it? Use your head too! Hang back and pick your targets carefully. Not long ago there was a real good thread about mage survival that would help, it had a lot of tips on how to live as a low HP build..check it out!

https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/21/21486/advice-on-playing-pure-casters/index.html

Don't give up...Leroy is always out there!

I understand you got upset and wanted to express your displeasure, but I do believe there are solutions to your problems. A lot of it has to do with questing with people who your character knows IC and trusts vs. latching on to the occasional sending-organized mess of randoms to go "do clowns."

Other piece of advice when dealing with people who rush: let them rush and get killed, while you prepare to retreat.

If you're neutral or chaotic, that's quite IG. If you're lawful, try to get the party to listen to you and protect them from the rushing people. Remember lawful is not suicidal, except perhaps when covering a retreat...

But remember: Underdark is really dangerous, even when cautious. Higher lvls here are 8-9, rarely more. Dying when you can't prevent it at all is irritating. Dying when you let others lead you to your death can and should be avoided.

It takes some time to getting used to, i guess.

Other piece of advice when dealing with people who rush: let them rush and get killed, while you prepare to retreat.

Other piece of advice when dealing with people who rush: let them rush and get killed, while you prepare to retreat.

Other piece of advice when dealing with people who rush: let them rush and get killed, while you prepare to retreat.

SnowJewel is teh smartses.

I think SnowJewel hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "Look you arses, if you ain't gonna listen, I ain't gonna die - so I'm gone!" There is nothing that says you must continue on with a bad group, and there have been situations when it's been obvious that the group just isn't capable of making it. In those situations I've told the group (as a Cleric) "look, we are in over our heads, we need to turn around and go back."

Secondly, you need the proper preparations. That means you need to seek out those who are selling potions and wands. It means you actually need to spend your gold and use those materials when you need them.

I like to think I've grown to be reasonably good at NWN since I've come to EfU. In fact, at the least, I know my knowledge of the game and my ability to handle situations has improved dramatically. This is in a large part to trial and error, and letting people who do stupid things while being prepared to save my own ass if things go bad.

I don't place the responsibility on others, I place it on myself. If I fall into a bad group, and I die its my fault for keeping with that group. My last character was a Rogue/Ranger/Wizard and he didn't die primarily because he was prepared. When he saw people rushing forward, he stayed back. When people started dying, he went to hide. After all, someone has to retrieve the bodies, right? Better to be the one to retrieve the bodies than to be one.

However, I do agree in that I dislike joining random groups past level five. At that point the stakes get pretty high. It's pretty easy to get to 5th level, but once you get past 5th that is when things start getting dangerous. By that time I normally have a group of individuals who I know can handle themselves well, that my character knows IC and that I seek out when I want to go questing.

My pet peeve, and this is especially true as I'm playing a pure cleric as my current character, are players who expect my character to hand them my deities blessings as if they were entitled to them. That isn't something my character normally does IC unless she sees it to her advantage (read: her survival). She blesses herself, and THEN looks around and asks "Should I save this blessing to spontaneously heal someone that I need or should I cast it on someone else?"

Mostly, this pet peeve involves healing. I meet a lot of players who simply have no healing what-so-ever. I have no idea why this is... I sell potions and divine wands, there are NPC vendors that sell potions... why do they not purchase some of them? What are they doing with their gold? It OOCly frustrates me if I have to save someone else's life by expending my own wands and potions, and do not receive compensation for the expenditure of my resources. I won't willingly let another player die if I can help it, but I've certainly had players running around with almost no health at all only saving them at the last moment. I refuse to expend my resources on people who refuse to expend their own.

I'll happily sell people potions and wands cheaply, especially if they are willing to RP with my character and give my character incentive. I will even happily sell potions at cost to players who let me know in advance what they need, and we have time before a quest. (Meaning I have time to make the potions/wands and then rest before leaving.)

Now that I've written all this I think from now on, when I do quests, I am going to hand out rewards to those who earned them the most instead of dividing things equally. It might cause some OOC hard feelings, but I think ultimately it is more fair and will force other players to work harder and contribute more.

Side Note: I have absolutely no problem with players whose characters rush through quests for IC reasons. That includes characters that have such low wisdom and intelligence that they simply are too stupid not to know any better. It is certainly slightly annoying (because as a player - I hate questing, so when I quest my main focus OOCly is "lets just get this over with so I can go RP"), however I don't want to discourage other people from doing what is IC for their character to do.

Right! There was a longer version of what I was going to say, but...

Meldread Side Note: I have absolutely no problem with players whose characters rush through quests for IC reasons.

I think that people should start acting as their characters, not as their classes, when questing: An over-confident, low wisdom barbarian, who believes that through the strength of his arms he can down any foe, -is- going to charge ahead and probably get himself killed.

However, a person playing a barbarian, would probably wait for the party, get buffed, cautiously move ahead, alongside the group's other frontliner, then take down the opponent slowly.

In any situation, I'd prefer to see the first. Even if it means my character getting slaughtered.

I quested a good amount and saw a fair share of death but the main thing is to remember that you are taking a risk by joining a random quest group or even a group that you trust. That is both OOC and IC; you make the decision IC and OOC as well as a character in your group may be an idiot OOC or IC. Just remember that leveling up is not that impressive of a feat on any server, including EfU, so if you are afraid of the occasional "group gone bad" (which is very easy) remain picky on who you join or barely quest at all. I always enjoyed questing because I tried to form groups that were unstoppable and it brought me a lot of pleasure to take on some of the bigger quests with people who quest a lot along with those who barely quest at all. But if you really want a party that lacks any idiots, just bring a dwarf. DUH

-Figgy out

Fortunately, there is the Powergamer Paradox that USUALLY helps steer you to the parties that don't rush.

Just don't go travel with any group that is insistent on finding a Half-Orc or Dwarven meatshield before they go on the quest. Not only is it an illusion that everyone in the party has to be mega-warrior for the greatest chance of success on quests, it's actually counter-productive, as this will be EXACTLY the group that rushes forward thinking they're invincible (and later claim it was because they brought that "weak rogue/wiz/etc").

My survival rate has been tons higher when I've gone with groups that are welcoming to any and all that don't conflict IC, and groups that are willing to "let's see how far we can get"... the magic idea being that, before they even set out, there's the concept of retreat.

JackOfSwords

the magic idea being that, before they even set out, there's the concept of retreat.

JackOfSwords is smart!