While I've never been against the uber tough high death DM quests, I think it might be a worthwhile topic to investigate, setting corpses to automatically lock on death during such things. Nothing is worse than the rampant looting that goes on during the chaos of such events, and I don't believe that it helps anyone's enjoyment of the game...except the person plying the battlefield, looting. ^_^

My two cents Meow-mix!

I agree, on a charctor I worked for two weeks power gaming all the high pay quests and getting 2000 gold, then on an Orog raid, some dwarf looted me, I challenged him and he wacked me silly. I think it should not be allowed to loot without the players permission.

I think that is a silly idea. I understand the irritation coming from a looting happening in middle of chaos, for example a massive battle, but a rule where you couldn't loot without permission of a player, that is just silly. It would take all real aspects of RP world.

You see, in that case anyone that would be even a bit pissed of his death, no matter how legimate, rightly done or so it may have been, could deny the killer the looting or gaining items that he was after. What's the point to rob someone if his items are being held by some invincible power?

In the end, I think that this is a troublesome feature in this kind game, but it can't be helped in too many ways. We only need to trust players, and for DM's to do their best on solving and preventing this from happening.

My particular suggestion wasn't a blanket statement, and wouldn't apply in 49 out of 50 times a player would die...It would only apply when there is the mass chaos of a DM event, and many players who don't generally cross paths all squished together in one spot. I was suggesting more of a server variable that the DM's would turn on when such a thing is going on, if that was possible to script.

I'm pretty sure this is already possible, and happens occasionally.

It is possible for a DM to lock corpses, yes. But I would imagine that having to manually do it for every single person that dies while you are supposed to be running a complex and large scale event would be no less than ridiculously irritating. That is why I suggest a script bent on automatically doing such, when the situations warrant.

As much as I hate looters.... Gods how I hate them... its one of these things that can be justified IC. What gets me is the Lawful Good mob looting and getting away with it. How in the name of God can you even begin to justify that sort of IC behavior. I make a point that if i ever come across a pack or corpse layin about to ask the player if thay are perma dead or respawning the character before i even consider having a wee look see what stuff the poor soul has dropped... I have played Thieves and Evil scumbags and still done this. But as for locking of corpses its a fair enought idea but its one more thing for the DM's to deal with in the madness that is an already crazy time for them.

As long as people aren't full looting, I don't see a problem. Snatching someone's coin purse and a few items is generally accepted. Unstrapping someone's armor and grabbing all their gear, however, is metagaming. Unless they take their time and emote the actual act (e.g. *kneels and strips Joe Bob of his armor, chuckling at the heart-shaped tattoo on his butt*). Then there is at least an opportunity to investigate and hunt down who took your stuff.

That's my two copper pieces.

meow-mix It is possible for a DM to lock corpses, yes. But I would imagine that having to manually do it for every single person that dies while you are supposed to be running a complex and large scale event would be no less than ridiculously irritating. That is why I suggest a script bent on automatically doing such, when the situations warrant.

Pause Button. Lock.

Its pretty easy for a DM to do that in situations where he doesn't want looting.

I agree with kenny's statement about LG characters looting for metagaming reasons. I also agree with asking the player OOC if he/she is going to permadie.

If the person says, they are perma, then I will rationalize taking the items as things that we need to finish the quest with. Potions, weapons, etc all fit under this category.

The only exception is if the character has an extremely rare item and the player wishes (or if ICly it makes sense) to have a funeral for the character. In that case, I would bury the rare/personal/keepsake item with them.

I think a generically good thing to keep in mind would be OOC -courtesy-. It's -courteous- to notify people OOC if you're looting their corpse. I honestly, however, believe that a rule against it would be entirely ridiculous.

Crush what I sad last time, in times of chaos, there are looters! After battles, you will have gangs of people roving the battle field looking for loot. It makes PERFECT IC SENSE!

People more readily OOC griefing when there are a lot of people together and there is no way to identify who committed the deed. (looting others who died with you on a dm quest without any purpose other than OOC greed is griefing for me)

What I would suggest is that if you were to 'respawn' i.e. meaning you are not dead, have a script fire sending you a tell about which PC is touching you or your pack.

Give a fair chance for revenge, eventually.

That or locking the packs - but the message would make people a lot more conscientious about who they steal from and what they steal.

A few things. First, I agree that it would be useful for DM's to have an area wide toggle that allows them to lock the looting of corpses. However, there are a few things I don't think a lot of people are taking into consideration.

Primarily, as has been pointed out there are a lot of players who metagame looting (meaning that they act in a way that their character would not normally act). This is vastly more prone to happen in the chaos of a DM event, such as a riot in Upper Sanctuary. A DM can't possibly witness the deeds of every player and as such, cannot properly award alignment points. If your Lawful Good Paladin of Tyr is running around looting bodies for Phat Lootz then he deserves to fall.

Secondly, if you die in PvP your death is ALWAYS perma unless specifically stated by a DM that you can respawn, or if players take your corpse and get it raised. To my knowledge those are the rules on respawning in PvP and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong in that. It doesn't really matter how lame the death is you should never ever respawn in PvP unless given a DM's permission or get raised by other players.

Thirdly, in cases where you die to an NPC in a DM event I don't believe you should respawn until a DM gives you permission to do so. It is in some of these cases that I think this suggestion would be useful. For example let us say a massive riot had broken out in the town hall during Bhast's speech. He was killed during that riot, the Watch turned upon those fighting, players started fighting each other. In such a chaotic event it is unlikely that looting could occur. A DM might use this toggle command to lock the corpses of the town hall, preventing them from being looted.

Finally, I have nothing against looting the corpses of other players. However, in doing so I think everyone needs to exercise common sense judgment (example: Would it be ICly possible for me to loot this body during this situation?) and IC rationalization (example: would my character loot this body?) If you can answer yes to both of those questions, then I don't think looting is a problem. If you answer no to one of those questions then you should not do it.

After the above, it simply comes down to OOC consideration, which should boil down to: When in doubt, treat other players as you would prefer to be treated.

To me, there are 2 times where valuable RP is most critical:

1) Looting 2) PvP death

Of all the things that can happen to you on the server, these 2 things stand the greatest chance of spoiling your day. In my mind, either action is (at best) pointless or (at worst) poor sportsmanship, unless some RP value is inherent in the act.

To a player who intends either, the most important question should be, "what enjoyment am I adding to the game for any involved?" If they have no good answer, they have no good reason to loot or PvP.

That said, I can't expect everyone to be RP'r of the year, and I'm not omniscient about RP going on while I'm in the fugue, so I try (very hard) not to have bad feelings when it happens to me with poor/little RP. If I find I'm still upset about it after 5 min., I'll log off until I'm not bothered by it anymore.

The problem here is not about looting corpses, but about metagaming.

Looting corpses seems ok as long as it's IG, but remember that you're causing pain to someone if you strip his PC badly, so use common sense and OOC courtesy to loot people. Unique items should not be taken lightly.

About looting gold, snatching a purse seems ok. Walking away with a 2000 coins bag is weird. (But what strikes me in the first place is why someone carries 2000 coins in a bag that anyone can see... This is inviting robbery. Maybe adding weight to the coins might solve this and make banks richer.)

Metagaming is a problem that does not concern just looting, but RP servers in general. Control and react to this is probably tough for DMs who do their best.

I don't feel, though, that solutions (such as locking corpses) that interfer with all the players is a solution. Some individuals must probably be singled out, and if you spot them, tell a DM who is equiped and entitled to deal with the issue. (players are not, especially in the heat of irritation). If you can't spot them, be careful who you travel with next time. Even in big events, don't stay alone: find someone and watch over each other (if it's IG of course).

Taking gold I can understand, I find it very strange that items are often looted. I've yet to see a PC (with the exception of Frum) who is a salesmen by trade, so no one should be able to evaluate the price of an object in a quick manner to determine it's value, so why would anyone loot anything other than gold? I wouldn't mind looting so much if it was only gold that was taken

Crush what I sad last time, in times of chaos, there are looters! After battles, you will have gangs of people roving the battle field looking for loot. It makes PERFECT IC SENSE!

On a DM-spiced quest, and your comrades die mid-battle? Oh, shit yes, even damned Paladins have a incredibly good IC motivation to quickly loot some potions, wands and what-not. But dry-looting, searching for hot items, takings armor and weapons mid-fight? Oh, believe me. If I catch someone doing that, I'll keep an unfriendly eye on them for the rest of their stay on Efu.

There is, in my opinion, no worse griefing possible than looting during chaotic events.

Coldburn There is, in my opinion, no worse griefing possible than looting during chaotic events.

Perhaps something that can help is to make all corpses locked but pickable with a 10 DC to unlock.

Create an item that gives every player a 1 to open locks (will that work, do you HAVE to have base points to even get the skill as a selection in your radial menu?)

Whenever you loot a corpse, you have to pick it. It opens and you get to look at one tab of inventory that you can loot. Then you have to close it at which point the corpse relocks.

You can repeat the process.

This could represent the time it takes for the looter to actually search the body for items of worth, value, plus it is more noticeable by other PCs.

In calm situations you take twenty, but in battle you are fumbling about their belongings, so it could take longer to find anything useful.

Course, you 'd have to make sure any and all doors had at least a DC 22 to unlock, or else non rogues might be able to pick them with the corpse unlocker tool.

Maybe it can be scripted. Maybe not, I'm no scipter.

Open lock is a trained use only skill, which means that you need at least one rank to be able to use it.