I've thought about this suggestion for awhile, but after reading the subdual discussion I decided to go ahead and post it.

I would like players to have the ability to knock people unconscious so that they could be moved. As it currently stands this requires going into subdual mode, beating someone down and then requires their total OOC cooperation. At times this can be difficult both OOCly and ICly.

It would be beneficial in my opinion to have a new subdual mode called "Knock Out". This mode would work exactly like Full Damage, leaving a "corpse" behind - and sending the player to another area. In this case, it would not be the Fugue Plane but a holding area in which the character would remain for at least three minutes. During these three minutes it gives the other player(s) a chance to loot the body, or move the body to a more suitable location.

Once the body is picked up the player remains unconscious until the body is dropped and they start to "come around". This would be vastly superior to simple subdual if you want someone to "stay down". It gives the attacker a chance to go through the other PC's things, recover from the battle and give another player a proper send off.

In addition to that, it adds a whole new element to role-playing. You find yourself assaulted in the streets of Lower Sanctuary, but when you awaken you find yourself in some strange cave... and not only that surrounded by robed cultists wielding sacrificial daggers. Or you awaken in some shack, with a grinning man across the room who proceeds to tell you how you will fetch a fine ransom as a Orog pleasure slave. Or you awaken in a prison cell and you overhear people talking of sending a note for your ransom. Or you awaken in the middle of the wilderness, badly beaten and in your birthday suit with no idea on how to get back to the city.

I believe this would greatly improve the role-play for everyone and give new options that were not there in the past. (Mostly because they were difficult to achieve without total OOC cooperation.)

This sounds very good to me, except that it gets messy with all the different types of damage. >_>

I'll agree that this is a good idea. I don't think it can happen, due to how complicated this scripting would be.

There are problem scenarios such as logging out in the middle of it, wanting to FD before you "come out of it," people ninja looting bodies, crashes and resets, exploiting it in favorable situations.

And to restate it again, modifying the death/subdual system is an epic challenge.

Maybe though! Maybe something like this could be done.

I really do like the idea myself. Though I can imagine it'd be a terrible headache to implement.

Yeah, I understand it would be difficult which is why I didn't bother posting it in the past. However, Howland said the DM's were looking into scripted solutions to change things so I thought I'd throw this out there.

I would much prefer this method than simply extending the time it takes for someone to get up from a subdual. This is especially true in cases where you want to move the body as the battle took place in an inconvenient location.

Awesome idea - I suppose only Arkov could tell us if it'd be able to be implemented easily or not.

-DD

Meldread ...Or you awaken in some shack, with a grinning man across the room who proceeds to tell you how you will fetch a fine ransom as a Orog pleasure slave...

Grub-grub want you SQUEEL LIKE PIGGY!

I like this idea. If it can be done, please see it done! But yes, I can definately see where it would be difficult and cause problems.

having knocked them out, wait for them to get up and if there good rpers they will follow you wherever you are dragging them.

Thomas_Not_very_wise having knocked them out, wait for them to get up and if there good rpers they will follow you wherever you are dragging them.

This. Yes, cooperating OOCly to facilitate cooler IC interaction is a good thing and I totally approve of it with my seal of approval and omgosh here he is now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wun

I've been knocked out a few times and "moved". I just got up and walked with the other player who emoted *carries a sack containing so and so over his shoulder* and I'd type "//ignore me; am in sack". Generally, people played along with that.

Maybe, but it's still a pain in the ass, and it looks stupid, and i don't like it, which is realy all that matters, is it not?

To you maybe, to us, its cool

Anonymous Maybe, but it's still a pain in the ass, and it looks stupid, and i don't like it, which is realy all that matters, is it not?

Only if you're a cool person. But you're a guest, so you can't be cool.

Ohh, the responses of those who in history go down as being named as Anon.

It being an RP server, certain things must happen to overcome engine limitations this being one of them. On the flip side though, if you really do not want to walk naked behind someone (RPing being dragged knocked out), I so suppose they could always kill you and just drag the body to where they need it. Though I do like the first option better--it being an RP productive action.

Oroborous

Anonymous Maybe, but it's still a pain in the ass, and it looks stupid, and i don't like it, which is realy all that matters, is it not?

Only if you're a cool person. But you're a guest, so you can't be cool.

Ouch

Back on topic. I think this is a good suggestion. I would be in favor of it if scriptable. As for RPing just being dragged along, that's fine if everyone plays along. I've yet to be in the situation to see how well it works myself.

I've been on both sides of the situation, being "dragged" (OOCly following a person naked) and "dragging" others. It is troublesome to be dragged because you run into the problem of being seen by other people and having to break character to say 'No, I'm stuffed in a bag - you can't see me.' Or it is worse when you are trying to drag someone else, and they try and run away.

However, where I see this suggestion being most useful is in situations where its two groups facing off against each other. I've been in that situation as well, and I can say from experience that subdual sucks for this. To have someone stay down any length of time you have to continue beating on them after they've been subdued. Knocking them out for at least three minutes would ensure that you can deal with their friends. Such situations are already chaotic enough, and there isn't enough time to basically tell each person to stay down - don't go to your loot bag, don't try and escape. The end result could be much better if there was a way to keep them alive, and still ensure that they are not going to escape.

Also, there is the situation of people metagaming as they are being dragged. OOCly they will know how they got to where they currently are - they would know, for example - they are in a cave that connects to the sewers. They would know the way out. If they are OOCly in another area when they "awaken" they will have no idea where they are or how they got there.

For me, I'm looking for ways to eliminate headaches for both DM's and players while at the same time enhancing the role playing for all involved. Which is why I believe this suggestion is pretty good.

I'm not really concerned about pointing fingers at people and saying, "You're not a good role player because you didn't allow me to drag you to a place where I could continue beating the crap out of you and then kill you." Mostly because I've seen otherwise good role players avoiding just such situations, and because I believe this suggestion eliminates all ambiguity and puts everyone on equal footing.

I've been on both sides of the situation, being "dragged" (OOCly following a person naked) and "dragging" others. It is troublesome to be dragged because you run into the problem of being seen by other people and having to break character to say 'No, I'm stuffed in a bag - you can't see me.' Or it is worse when you are trying to drag someone else, and they try and run away.

Stuffing people and corpses in bags -at least for medium tall people- should be suspicious. People dragging corpses around and stealing them; moving unconscious people in bags; all of those should be noticed by other players. I'm sorry, but unless you cut up the player, it's kinda hard not to notice- and a fresh corpse and/or freshly beat down player is usually bloody, and blood would usually stain the bag. It's not like you stuffed the guy in your car.

EDIT: the way I read it is you want an easy way out of getting stopped.

Even if you've been stuffed in a bag of holding? ;)

That's not what I meant at all, actually. Every time I've dragged a player I've used invisibility on both of us and told them to turn autofollow on. Never had a need to put them in a bag as a result, because you don't "see" invisible people, even if you hear them. This negates the most common problem of the individual suddenly becoming "conscious", kicking, struggling and making muffled screams if they see someone / NPC's.

The only problem I've had is once you think they are following you, and they think they can run away... they try to do so... (despite the fact they are flopped over your shoulder, bound, gagged and supposedly unconscious.)

I didn't read the responses after the initial post, but I will assume that someone has mentioned that there is a 'concussed state' and a 'blacked out' state from subdual...the trick is being able to do enough damage fast enough to get them to that state.

Those states also last quite a while too so ICly it's possible to carry them though, yes, it requires ooc help.

Maybe they could create a dreamworld that the person goes to when they are blacked out from subdual. Kind of like going to the fugue, but its not a death state. But it does the same thing where it drops their pack and makes their body become a carry-able item. This would force the IC fact that you don't know whats going on while you are unconcious.

djspectre Maybe they could create a dreamworld that the person goes to when they are blacked out from subdual. Kind of like going to the fugue, but its not a death state. But it does the same thing where it drops their pack and makes their body become a carry-able item. This would force the IC fact that you don't know whats going on while you are unconcious.

This is the original suggestion, however, as was stated, it might be hard to script. Then some mentioned only Arkov could tell.

I like that idea too, as long as Arkov could implement it without getting headaches or so.

I can assume many good scripts are hard to script and that would be too.

Even if you've been stuffed in a bag of holding?

I might be getting ahead of myself, but I read somewhere that there's not a whole lot of air in a bag of holding to allow breathing for more than a few minutes. However, I might be thinking of another object, like a portable hole, and/or the duration might be inaccurate. Unfortunately, I do not have the book at hand's reach to support what I'm saying.

EDIT:

Here we go, found this on wikipedia

While a bag of holding appears to be a common cloth sack of about 2 by 4 feet (0.6 by 1.2 m) in size, it opens into a nondimensional space (similar to magic satchel), making its inside larger than its outside dimensions. Each bag always weighs the same amount, between 15 and 60 pounds (7 and 27 kg), regardless of what is put into it. It can store a combined weight of up to forty times its own weight, and a combined volume of 30 to 250 cubic feet (0.8 to 7 m³). Even if the bag is filled to capacity the objects inside never damage or even touch one another, which means that a character could fill a bag of holding full of eggs and rocks, for example, without any fear of breaking the eggs. A living creature put in a bag of holding will suffocate after about 10 minutes.

alogen

I can assume many good scripts are hard to script and that would be too.

why can't they just copy the death script over, link it to the act of being put unconcious as they do with being droped to -10 hp and just simply change the location to the dreamworld instead of fugue?

Then tag some kind of timer to your duration in that dreamworld that ports you back (True Rez but with out the xp penalty) whereever your body is.

A. Coping code = coping bugs

B. The edge cases, I think

edge cases?

ExileStrife I'll agree that this is a good idea. I don't think it can happen, due to how complicated this scripting would be.

There are problem scenarios such as logging out in the middle of it, wanting to FD before you "come out of it," people ninja looting bodies, crashes and resets, exploiting it in favorable situations.

And to restate it again, modifying the death/subdual system is an epic challenge.

Maybe though! Maybe something like this could be done.

Oroborous

Anonymous Maybe, but it's still a pain in the ass, and it looks stupid, and i don't like it, which is realy all that matters, is it not?

Only if you're a cool person. But you're a guest, so you can't be cool.

I don't know why it says annonymous. That was me! And I r0x0r!

Oh! I got it! All praise Mashai! Ahem:

Just use the same fuage plane script, but have it transport you to a different place on 'blackout'! It'd be easy enough, and there would be some NPC to talk to when you want to wake up! You woulden't be able to move for a while, since the blackout thing would still be in effect, and you have the option of RPing being out even longer! Now... make unto me an alter!

The difficulty doesn't really lie in sending the player somewhere else. It's everything else that's difficult.