So I read the announcement that included corner sneaking as a 'cheat'.

Personally, I disagree that this is cheating for two reasons.

First, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, corner sneaking is running around a corner when being chased by bad guys and then hitting the stealth key so as to avoid the creature detecting you further.

Reason 1: -------------

First off Shadowdancers get an ability, Hide-in-Plain sight, right off the bat. And near as I can tell, using HiPS isn't against any server rule...provided you get the class application approved.

Reason 2: ------------- Who's to say that your character couldn't run around a corner and then dash into a narrow crevass or behind a rock or pull a ninja move and stick to the ceiling? (okay that last one was a joke)

I mean not all creatures are really that intelligent to be able to continuing persuit if you've eluded them.....

I think thats why Shadowdancer is such a hard PrC to get is that it can easily be abused. I personally, think that most creatures that are chasing you (approx. 8/10) would have some sense to say I just saw this person go around the corner, he/she has to be here.

Exactly, you're not a Shadow Dancer. So you shouldn't be able to hide with a guy five inches from you.

Plus you're not running around the corner and pulling a "ninja" move. The game engine automatically breaks combat when you run around the corner and hit stealth. If the guy behind you had three Knockdown attempts queued, they're all lost as his combat queue breaks. Even if he still sees you and makes his spot against your hide, he's lost one round of combat because the engine breaks automatically. He also has to reacquire you as a target. This often gives the exploiter even more time to escape.

I was on the end of a case where a PC was using the very same thing to conduct PVP on an entire party of PC's it was not fun... Every time we hurt him he ran, stealthed round a corner then healed up and came back. It devolved into a running battle and in the end resulted in a very unenjoyable situation.

LOL

I was on a quest where a dm did that...

A sort of ninja-monk' in the gnome fanatics quest' that played melee hit and run...

Great fun.

Oh, party wipe by the way...

Spectre, what you're describing isn't the heart of the exploit. The problem is when a rogue would run behind a corner, hide, then within the next few seconds pop out for another devastating sneak attack (although waiting any less than 15 seconds or so, while it may not be cheating, is kind of lame and uncreative).

Sneak attacks are meant for when an opponent has no idea or is too distracted to notice you to prevent revealing weak spots. The combat system/game engine can't recognize when a PC character really DOES know when someone is around a corner, or at worst, potentially.

If you're fleeing from foes, I don't believe the rule applies, but the DMs would be better qualified to clarify, though I believe the subject is still in debate, so there may not be a clear answer yet!

Using hide to well... hide from things seems to be legit. I mean you duck behind cover and stay in the shadows unless the foe makes his spot/listen check, right? Using hide to meta or break the AI, well thats more on the illegal side. I think having a PC use stealth and hit and run tatics to achieve a goal is a good plan, within the boundaries of the game engine. I have been 'sniped' by PCs who have tried to shoot and flee to cover (or into a trap set for me) and I have sometimes given chase, rounded the corner (made my spot check) and emoted "Where did that bugger go!?" right before starting a beating on the spotted bastard :twisted:

Yea, the use of cover, running and using new spots, stuff like that is fine because your character (or theirs) doesn't know where the attack is coming from. That's the MAJOR difference.

It's fine to use it when running away from something. Repeatedly spamming it to get sneak attacks on foes is an engine exploit, however.

I believe I am the lone DM who feels that breaking LoS and sneaking when the critter is 2 feet behind you is completely absurd, and an exploit. It gives rogues a get out of combat free card on every single map we have, all of which feature dozens of places where you can magically disappear from a character that's as close as he can be to you.

However, we -all- agree that breaking LoS and sneak attacking repeatedly is an exploit. And so it will be dealt with as such.

There's a reason that nobody's gotten approved for SD. It's because HiPS is broken @#$%.

-Cross

I suppose it's a hak that does it, but on ALFA they've made it so that you can only perform HiPs x+2/day where x is the level of SD you have.

I haven't done this in a long time, but I remember the AI was never fooled by it anyway. You'd have to transition and hide at least before they even might consider not following you anymore. And that's terrible.

I've never done this, but when you make a run for it, I have a personel rule saying that I must wait for 30 seconds of running before I hit the stealth key, and I was never in the Line of sight of the enemy. Other than that, I don't and jug the invis, I mean, why else do you carry about 10 of them around <.<

Linelle I haven't done this in a long time, but I remember the AI was never fooled by it anyway. You'd have to transition and hide at least before they even might consider not following you anymore. And that's terrible.

Same I recall they do never stop following you. But I have'nt played a rogue since before the AI changes.

Ph and another thing. when you run behind saya stalagmite out in the open. Theres absolutly no way you can hide. Your foe saw you duck behind the stalagmite only one place you could be hiding without revealingyourself by coming out from behind thet stalagmite.

On the other hand should you run around two or three corners then stealth I can see it as being acceptable use.