So, after posting in the discussion thread about picking on mages, several people took the time to explain to me that mages are very powerful. Although harder to play I was told, with skilful play they are among the most powerful of classes. All well and good.

As someone who has had multiple lvl 9 (or higher if you include ECL) characters, I am really struggling with a mage on this server. Having just died for probably my fifteenth (!! I don’t exaggerate) time, I have to acknowledge I am doing something drastically wrong. I am dying on average every third day. None of these deaths are PvP, they are generally just regular statics. I just cannot find a safe place to stand on quests. I am stuck at lvl 5, repeating the easy quests till I’m blue in the face, but any time I try something higher than a 6 cap I am immediately eaten.

I would love some advice from anyone who has made a mage last on this server. Feel free to PM if you think the info is too candid for the general publics eye.

No PMs! Post it here, please! :wink:

I played a mage which lasted over a year, and hit level 7. However, I don't think anyone should follow his example. <_<

It's absurdly difficult to play mages.

The only tips I have are these:

1) Have a good party. Don't scrimp on tanks or people who are going to bail as soon as things get luke-warm.

2) Stay the hell out of dodge. You don't want to be in the firing line at any time, ever. If you're being hit at any time, you're doing something wrong. The mages that use touch-spells and melee combat weapons properly (many try, few succeed) are too cool for their own good. Don't try this at home.

3) Invis pots, spells, wands.

Ladocicea

3) Invis pots, spells, wands.

I can't agree with this more. The best investment I've made yet was the crafting of a wand of invis. Not cheap, but damn useful.

Oh, and one word of advice - don't try and fireball large packs of archers. :oops:

It takes a lot of finesse, and a lot of concentration. You're going to want to hotkey everything and anything you can that will save your life without triggering an Attack of Opportunity. Examples are 1.) Wands of Invisibility, 2.) Arcane Wands of Healing, etc.

I nearly always cast Mage Armor, Endurance, Protection from Elements (Or Endure Elements!), and Protection from Evil on my mage if I'm going to quest. Other than that, I guess don't be afraid to use consumables, invest in some search ranks to see traps, tumble ranks can be incredibly useful for evading a deadly AoO in a pinch too. (These tips are entirely OOC, though! Don't take these skills if they aren't in character for your character to take.)

Cabre's other post was really a good one too, I'm sure there're some things I'd use that I'm missing. These are the basics I stick to, though.

You need to be cowardly. At the first sign of trouble, drop invisibility or something like that. Never stay in the very back, but second to last in rank is best. Keep someone strong behind you.

Know your role and shut your mouth. The first one is easy; have a definitive role in the party and do it well. You'll be more efficient, and that will have a contagious effect on those around you. The second one isn't as cut and dry; actually, by shutting your mouth, I mean, keep your casting to a minimum. Fate loves to stick it to a casting mage. There may be no scientific proof, but in my experience, when you cast, your chances of getting stuck increase exponentially with the level of the spell.

I played an abjurer with lots of Dispels. I had a clear, specific role in the party (removing negative effects and countering enemy casters), I had enough spells that playing conservatively meant I could participate fully at any time, and most importantly, I always position myself in range to be helped should the need arise. I had 9 AC through my entire career, reaching up to level 8 before the Lizardmen came through the mines.

With Wizards, don't go full-out on giving out party-buffs. Always keep reserves - More importantly, keep the reserve-spells as defenses. Expeditious Retreat, Ghostly Visage, Invisibility, it's all good. They are life-savers, more so Expeditious Retreat when Invisibility fails for some reason (Invisibility Purge, See Invisibility, True Seeing, Tremorsense, interuptions).

Wizards often walk around with a crossbow, as you do. Now, the point of crossbows is that you'll fire at the enemy from a distance. Don't get too close to the enemy, although I know this is a tip wasted on 95% of the population. Moreover, however, you do not initiate combat with your character! Unless you feel you have to throw that Acid Splash in on the Orog Scout Commander, with his nifty AB and Poisonous Arrows, you'd best don't. I'd even argue against softening up the enemy party with an Area of Effect Spell, like Fireball, if you're not prepared to deal with the consequences. You need a line of experienced warriors, and I kid you not when I say a line, for you have to interupt the enemy's movement patterns towards you. Also, if the group has archers of spellcasters, you need an object to hide behind, to escape from their line of sight. Now, I'd simply argue that, for the more inexperienced spellcasters, you just refrain from initiating this PvE and sit it out until your archers and warriors do it.

Always be prepared for anything. I know that it's easy to adjust your spellsets to a specific quest, yet at times of DM-possesion, spice or additional quest-area, you'll not be prepared for it in any situation, other than if Tymora somehow gave you the right spellset (which is highly unlikely). It is especially important to always be able to adapt to any situation, because DM-controlled monsters can just behave so much more intelligently and lethal. I myself took this philosophy to the extreme, hardly, or actually never, having any buffs to spare for the party. I always was prepared for PvP, and I believe I was just about ready for any kind of threat coming the way. It's not use stocking up on Fireballs when your opponent is a high-level Dexterity Rogue with Elemental Protection, or Mestil's Acid Sheath when your opponent pops out a spoiler.

Walk slowly and deliberatly. Don't rush in when there's combat, triggering AoO's. Use Combat Casting to prevent enemy AoO's in mêlée. Always walk well behind the first line. Should the buggers trigger an Area of Effect trap, you'll not be the one catching the (sometimes massive) damage as well.

Positioning and movement is probably the most important thing about playing a Wizard/ Sorcerer, however. Unfortunatly, I can not give you any tips on how to do this, yet you can find out for yourself what the best way is. Just don't stand too close to the frontline, for when that Axewielding Gnoll breaks line to have a go at you, you can see it coming and won't be surprised by the 20 + 5 = 25 *succes* *Critical Threat 9 + 5 = 14* *Critical Hit!* [Gnoll Warrior damages Wizard for 37 damage].

Wizard 101.

Perhaps an unfair jab at Wizard-playing character who enjoy their PvP/PvE.

Don't play it if you can't handle it. It's fiery death!

All the following posts are true however it is actually possible to do a mage that can frontline it with the best of the fighters my dwarven wizard Hogan for example. Then again i dont suppose most monsters (or Dms for that matter) would expect the party mage to charge head first into the enemy swinging a greataxe around his head.

Ommadawn

Oh, and one word of advice - don't try and fireball large packs of archers. :oops:

Hehe >_>

I hardly think wizards need to be "cowardly". Careful though yes.

Invest in parry. If someone is attacking you, you can hold them off a few rounds and survive.

Keep defensive spells around. Ghostly Image, Improved Invisibility for yourself! Etc.

Keep invisibility around.

Wait until the front line is engaged before launching spells.

Watch your flanks.

Stay 15 feet behind the party, only moving forward when you're ready to cast.

Don't gimp CON or DEX just for higher INT unless you plan to play a total coward. A 16 CON wizard can last a lot longer than at 12 CON.

Multiclass! Fighter/Wizard for extra HP and trust me you can be brave with this build. Rogue/Wizard is very tough because fireballs suddenly don't mean anything to you and you can get very high parry. Wizard/Barbarian with the right feats you can just wade into combat and rip shit up. I nearly always multiclass, mostly because while a high level spell is great for PvP--it really doesn't make as much difference on PvM.

Coldburn With Wizards, don't go full-out on giving out party-buffs. Always keep reserves - More importantly, keep the reserve-spells as defenses. Expeditious Retreat, Ghostly Visage, Invisibility, it's all good.

I prefer to take the opposite approach to this. Use every single spellslot you have in order to turn your frontliners into juggernauts of utter destruction, or to fill up on enough evocations to make his job a lot easier than it would have been. You'll find in such situations that enemies rarely survive long enough to cause you a great deal of annoyance. Keep a few invisibility potions around for emergencies by all means, but I think using spellslots in a non defensive way is the best way to ensure the continued survival of your wizard.

There's a lot of good advice here Scrappayeti, could you tell us a little about how you like to play and what is getting you killed?

The way I see it you need to decide: Am I the damage mage, the buffer or other? Other being a mix of damage and buffing but in my mind it's the oddball, like the fighting mage or some other "oddball" build.

Do like others have mentioned and have escape devices like invis potions, wands and so on. Wands of expeditious retreat are cheap and work well too.

Protection is good too, many mages swear by CON buffing. Extend spell is a feat I think works awesome for buffs to yourself and for the party...as well as for invis spells. But...and this is a big "but" I think a frontliner who will keep a close eye on you is a godsend.

This is a personal opinion that may not be agreed with by all, but it seems on EFU that the more people are on certain quests the more the difficulty rises. I'd say the goblin fortress is a good example, a lot of people mean a lot of goblins. It seems to me that a lesser number of skilled characters is the way to roll. Some people seem to like the powerleveling trifecta, but in that party you all have to be good...well, good and praying a DM doesn't decide to test your l33t sK1lZ, which they often will. I find three man quests scary enough ( I consider myself to be a mediocre mage XD ) and DM love really amps up the panic factor for me. I love it after it's over, but using ever trick I've learned just to live is a heartpounding experience.

A small (or large!) supply of fundamental wands makes staying alive on this server 300 percent easier.

Don't prepare ghostly visage or invisibility. Those are emergency wand spells that are just wasting a spot that could be used for making your people stronger, with everyone's favorite transmutations. There is nothing wrong with hitting a 25 gold charge of invis from a wand the moment a monster turns it's head towards you.

Prepare to be bored, and don't get too bored that you suddenly want "some action." If you really don't want to be bored, work on getting everyone's healing consumables so that you can use them on others while they fight.

Expect to die. Even If perfectly played, I think a wizard or sorc is going to rack up far more deaths while questing than other classes. "Unlucky" will eventually happen, and you usually won't survive it.

Always have the highest level of elemental protection casted on yourself. Always.

Know your spells well, and arrange them for good combinations.

For example, I found out Irongust spells is very useful on places with high probability for disease or poison, those +4 to fortitude changes a lot.

Combust is strong, but be prepared it might bring the enemy to you on each hit (I checked it in single player, and I think they can find/go toward you even with invisibility on)

When you choose spells, unless you pick them for RP reasons, pick the one you think is best, I know some spells may be very similar to others, with the slight difference which is important none the less.

I almost never shoot with my wizard. Either with his bow or a crossbow the difference is small, while the risk is bigger. Don't forget your wizard might autoshoot someone else, which will draw unwanted enemies toward him.

(From shooting alone I managed to die 2-3 in one day :) )

alogen

I almost never shoot with my wizard. Either with his bow or a crossbow the difference is small, while the risk is bigger. Don't forget your wizard might autoshoot someone else, which will draw unwanted enemies toward him.

(From shooting alone I managed to die 2-3 in one day :) )

My casters always use crossbows or bows. The trick is, aim for enemies you can kill--the guys Near Death. Take pot shots at them, if you kill them great you gave the fighter a free swing at a different foe, reduced the damage the fighter might have taken before his next swing, and if you miss and the creature breaks combat to come kill you, the fighter will probably finish it off with an AoO.

Also, aim for guys *in* combat and not *out* of combat. In combat, they're less likely to make a run for you, and if they do-they're already probably hurt and again AoO may very well kill them before the get to you.

Keep yourself ready to cancel the attack icon in the top left corner. Pot shots are great, but if you can't find a good target--don't shoot.

To be honest, I am OOC annoyed often at the wizard who doesn't contribute anything but spells because while the front line is risking life and limb--they're hanging back terrified to take any risk (I always make the exception for the wizard who roleplays being terrified as opposed to those situations where I think its the player's fear and not the characters) and IC I've yet to have played a character that will let them remain in the party when they're not doing everything they can to help the group triumph.

Oro,

For that particular reason I keep a wand of a cantrip, it's really chip and does the work of AOOs at times, or just finishes them off.

Wands are awesome cause they "Increase" your spellslots (Makes one spell to be many spells).

Never figured it's power until I started creating myself.

Oroborous nailed it there: When it comes to your crossbow, engage -only- engaged enemies if you don't want to get a sword upside the head. And -do- pick on the weak...it's like natural selection XD Also, range is your friend...just not so far as to be the sucker in the rear..oh, and watch that ceiling for spiders, the floor for umberhulks...the walls for secret moster hiding doors, temporal rifts...and never, ever, ever be the guy that says "I wonder what's in this portal?" [enters first] Wait...do I sound paranoid?

alogen Oro,

For that particular reason I keep a wand of a cantrip, it's really chip and does the work of AOOs at times, or just finishes them off.

Wands are awesome cause they "Increase" your spellslots (Makes one spell to be many spells).

Never figured it's power until I started creating myself.

Yes, cantrip wands rock. You can even afford to use one a quest and still manage to earn gold and experience; making them a terrific investment.

I played only one wizard, -ONE- and I found the ((Meta magic feat that allows you to wear armor nd not suffer arcane failure)) Can do wonders sometimes. Wearing a tower shield, heavy armor etc...people don't expect you to be a mage, till you cast Melf's acid arrow at the enemy, then you got a high ac to rely on, though he died from Magic eaters ((><)) and had a life span of about..3 days ((Long time ago)) It was a different tale from most mages.

Oroborous Wizard/Barbarian with the right feats you can just wade into combat and rip shit up.

I cannot agree with this more. In the PnP supplement 'Complete Mage', there's a build called 'Warrior' that I use. Basically, you might have one or two levels of fighter or barb or something, just for HP, but focus on spells that turn you into a bat-shit crazy juggernaut of axe-wielding DOOM! Good times.

Sure, 'Tenser's Transformation' immediately comes to mind, but what you really need is AC. 'Shield' is your best friend, as it gives you a whopping +4 to AC. 'Mage Armor' is, of course, a must along with 'Endure Elements'. On those higher levels, hold out on 'Haste' for 'Bulls Strength' and 'Cats Grace'. If you have any extra spaces, get a powerful summon, or even something weak, like a rat. Go for sorcerer as opposed to wizard, since sorcerers can cast the same spell over and over w/o sacrificing something they may need in a pinch.

As an added, I'd like to comment that even a 12 CON Wizard can go into hectic mêlée and assault opponents with Dagger or Club, with little to no chance of dying. Try playing Arena Servers, it's the little tricks you need to pick up on.

And Wiggyboy, concerning full-out party-buffing, or saving spells for yourself, it comes with De la Rey's paranoia-background that everyone was out to get him. It both works equally well, I suppose.

I beleive Thrawn played a WW melee mage...mighta been Metro, that was a while ago. Wanna share some tips for that crazy wizard?

LOL @ Sedarine.

Tumble, Stealth, Extended Invis, Wands.

Linked with your survival is your fighters', so buff them up and keep them at full health. Haste (extended, if possible) them in critical encounters.

Haven't kept up with the thread, but I think the fun thing about playing a caster is that they are hard. The best part of them is discovering how to be a caster and yet be the most powerful thing walking with only 10HP under your belt. It's a challenge!

Almost always give yourself ghostly visage. How many monsters have a +1 weapon?

AoE spells can be good, don't cast them on your team (they hurt alot sometimes).

Most mages just buff the team a bit use an xbow and wait till the boss or a big pack of enemies before using a spell to attack.

Also get spells that make people want you in their group such as mind wards or give out free potions to your group (maybe)

Well, here's what i do, hope it suits your game play. It differs from the aggressive mage most do, it seems.

- invisibility is a must. i spend most of my time invisible in QA... - don't attack with ranged weapons if fighters are doing fine, you'll only attract attention, and you value added attack is very low, - brew potions: lots of easy money to be had this way.... and it helps others.

- there's a difference between low levl and higher lvl play:

- low lvl, take what spells you like, and summons works fine

Higher lvl (more than 5), here's what i do: - i play a full supportive sorceror: no attack spells (for the same reason as above), and mostly summoning items (you can find a lot in the game, summons don't cancel invisibility, but are used mainly to ease the strain on fighters, not to inflict good damage), - always protect yourself (especially elemental protection, and when you can, stoneskin or blur when you see it's going to get rough) - once you know what you're up against (but don't meta game before the quest !), cast the right protection spell (blur for small enemies, elemental protection everytime, mind wards, etc...) - get spells your team wants and that last more than a few rounds: strength & dext enhance, magic weapon, protections, wards, dispels... (remember: magic weapon+strength= about +3 bonus, on 1d8 weapon, that's 40% damage you increase, and it last long !) - stay away from the fight (risk of area damage spells which will kill you straight off, or being spotted: invisibility only helps so much...) - be ready to heal others with items or herbs: that's your second job once your supportive spells are active (or gone !) - i try not to bother about "picking a good team": first, choice may be limited, second, i try to get new PCs/players to play, third, if you don't engage in melee, you'll survive a lot whatever the team. I've been the only survivor on a few quests, and stayed alive to bring rescue team or to take the bodies to some safe spot - if you really want to cast those offensive spells (which can be really deadly), take precautions such as casting hasty retreat just before, or invisibility just after... and remember area-spells will likely hit your team, so be careful... - magic missile is very efficient: no ST, good damage, you can cast a lot, long range (safety rules !)... Very handy when the fighters just can't hit that big boss ! - if you can, hire a bodygard (though i believe easing the strain at the front will be much more effective, so don't take a fighter or rogue away from the combat scene just because you feel chilly...) In this matter, rp is very important to make loyal friends...

Don't expect to attack (spell/ranged) without being targeted... and since your AC and HP are low, once you're targettted, your chances of survival are low (especially higher lvl enemies)

You're no frontliner, nor secondary line. You're full support. You could cast your spells in town and stay there if they lasted long enough or weren't dispelled!

There's a huge difference if you dual-class with a fighter sort, because then you're expected to fight... Pure mages just don't fight... Whatesmore, when you hit pure classe lvl 6 or 7, you get veeery nice spells (stoneskin, improved invisibility...), which you'll never get if you're 3/3 or 4/4...

Bottom line: pure mages must be cowa... hu, cautious ! I've only found one PC to ever blame me for being hu... very cautious (lol !: "why aren't you fighting, girl !Take your staff and fight !" -against trolls !)

Thank you everyone who replied. Some of that was quite handy. I havent died since, which brings me to a piece of advice no one gave me, but probably should.... "give up and roll gobbo you talentless hack".

I have to disagree with people saying pure mages just dont fight because as ive mentioned before my charecter Hogan who is a pure wizard is at times more affective in the front than most fighters.