Either one way or another your character has met Hedge(my character) and received a laugh, a story, an endless babbling, a lesson on nonsense, a migrane, a fairy tale, an even bigger migrane, or something to this effect. All in all he's harmless and quite pleasant at heart, and has a massive list of people who like/dislike him. That being said...

The question is: What are the acceptable standards for talking to crowds bigger than an adventure party? e.g. Public speaking. With the exception of *roll persuade/bluff/intimidate check* what is acceptable and what is not during the course of RP and IC when the little halfling has captured the attention of just about the entire town. One on one, *roll persuade check* works fine for the sake of good RP but Im unsure how to do so with a large audience as it would be quite tedious and unnecessary to have 15-20people *roll persuade check*

Is it assumed? Ignored? Overlooked?---Suggestions please? Thanks..

I'm confused. Why would rolls even be necessary in these situations?

I usually just try to RP my stats accurately and hope that other people do the same. The exception I make to this is when someone tells me to roll a check, or rolls their own check and lets me know the result. In those cases, via tells, I can let them know something like "you sense he is being truthful" or some crap like that.

Just my thoughts, I hope that helps.

Please, to keep things sane, don't use "social skill" rolls during large public events unless you're specifically asked to do so by a DM. It's hard enough to keep track of all the text as it is.

Understood.

Yes, I did a large crown scene today--no rolls until the rioting started.

Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate aren't meant to be used on other PCs anyway. Nobody should ever tell you how your character feels, thinks, or reacts to something, unless they are compelling you magically. Asking someone to roll a check against a bluff is announcing to them that you are lying, and then asking them to roleplay the result of a dice roll rather than to decide what their character would perceive and how they'd react to it. I'd rather not know my PC is being misled, flattered, etc. and have to figure it out through their interactions with the other PCs involved.

I wish I could agree outcrowd, things aren't always so simple.

Bluff, I agree, is not terribly useful with PCs, and should be considered only in very very few instances.

Persuade has a few good possibilities. For example, when I was selling a piece of magical equipment the other day and after we had talked about the good uses of the equipment, we agreed to roll counter persuade rolls to see who "won out" in the price. He ended with a 28 and I had a 22 or so, so he won the deal and got it for a small chunk cheaper.

I have a feeling Oro/Mandarin used a persuade roll as well during his speech to calm the crowd, which would make sense as well, especially in influencing the NPCs around (which, remember, most of the time a single NPC really represents more than just that one).

Intimidate, in my opinion, is very useful with PC interactions, though the reactions are entirely based upon the other player. Persuade and bluff are skills noting the words someone would use to decieve or persuade (duh), but intimidate has more to do with facial expressions, tone, and body language (although many other factors including number of allies around you and weapons drawn, size, etc. count as a large piece of intimidation) that simply cannot be passed on between characters as easily as bluffing or persuading. It sets the tone for the "intimidatee" as to how scary a character is looking.

Of course, as a group buddy a few days ago pointed out, you cannot make anyone react to your rolls and you cannot force someone to do it either; as a side note, blind rolling (rolling without asking permission) is a little rude, too.

So, they are not nearly as effective as some other skills, but they certainly have their place, even against PCs.

So long as everyone involved understands that rolls do not obligate any player to do anything (without a DM involved), I don't object to players using a roll to simulate the degree to which they're being persuasive, lying, intimidating, etc.

Generally in such a situation you should send the other a quick tell saying, "Feel free to ignore my roll, but here's how much <persuade> I have if you're curious."

Certainly players should make an effort to accurately reflect the character's natural abilities (charisma + social skills) in their RP, but unfortunately not everyone's standards are the same.

I know as DM even if I don't ask for a roll I tailor my NPC reactions to the charisma and social skills of the character they're dealing with. As a player, I occasionally found it useful to know how the social statistics of other characters I was dealing with in order to appropriately respond also.

Agreed. Nobody can make you react to anything but a dm, but there is nothing wrong with letting people know a roll you got. Most of the server is mature enough to make good choices.

Understood again. I may have mislead. I dont mean skill rolls on a crowd no, I mean is it "understood" or "known" when my character is selling a large audience on an issue or statement? Of course reactions will vary from 0-60 in less than 3seconds, however it should be implied or role played rather than checks right?

PanamaLane Wrote:

Most of the server is mature enough to make good choices.

Thats just what I was hinting at. Putting the faith in the players.

Howland Wrote:

Generally in such a situation you should send the other a quick tell saying, "Feel free to ignore my roll, but here's how much <persuade> I have if you're curious."

I've never considered that as a solution. It certainly is acceptable. I will incorporate this.

I agree it can work as a general guideline to give an idea of the PC's natural abilities in these areas, but it's still best to leave most of it to roleplaying, in my opinion at least. If it's a case of, "I rolled a 18 so I'm being particularly charismatic with my argument," fine, just so long as the player making the persuade roll accepts that their high roll cannot "make" another PC do anything.

Garem Persuade has a few good possibilities. For example, when I was selling a piece of magical equipment the other day and after we had talked about the good uses of the equipment, we agreed to roll counter persuade rolls to see who "won out" in the price. He ended with a 28 and I had a 22 or so, so he won the deal and got it for a small chunk cheaper.

I was under the impression that Appraise was used for assessing value, to know when you're being overchargedn hence the server message :The merchant's reaction is...

I could very well be wrong of course, but that's what Appraise means. In truth, there really SHOULD be a skill called "barter", but in it's absence, persuasion just makes more sense to me.

In a PC to PC situation, I would say it's all up to the two players. Hell, if one asked if they could try and do an overprice situation, a bluff vs. an appraise would work perfectly, but between two characters trying to agree on a fair price, they seem to be trying to persuade the other that it should be lower/higher. Situational judgement comes into play, and OOC agreement and courtesy.

Personally, I would think the appraise skill would be used to determine your ability to know the "true" value of an item. Persuade would be needed if you wanted to get more or less out of the current item.

So you would start out at the value you appraise the item at (which would probably be what you have seen it sell for at a merchant). Then someone might try to Persuade more, or less, value to that item.

"This is only worth 40 gp!"

"But this was originally owned by Sir Thomas the great and used in his crusade."

"Oh, well then..."

Of course, if that was not true, then you might need to run a bluff check as well. :)