What's so good about it?

[rimshot]

Jokes aside, As a saying I've used a lot with many characters, I was wondering if anyone knew when exactly it was "First used" so to speak.

The use of it is perfect, since, you know, half of the people in sanctuary likely don't know what "Day" is. It adds immensely to the immersion of the server, and is just a neat cultural nuance, and I was just wondering if anyone remembered when/who came up with the idea.

It wasn't me. :P

It was totally Rimmeke.

It drives me nuts. I hate the phrase. I have a feeling it was something introduced by someone like Eraamion or Starry. Someone in the early efu heyday.

I honestly don't like it very much either. >_>

Damn, I thought it was just me. I don't quite know how a nonsensical connection of day to dark is made. Do people say "Good Light"? not that I've heard, as if they did then Good Dark would make a nice viable opposite. I don't like, nor understand it.

I like it. =)

-Cross

If you don't like it, don't use it. It's such a minuscule thing to be annoyed by. Personally, I think it's great.

In regards to the question- The first time I heard it was around October, used by Meldread. Not saying he started it, but that at least provides for a line of questioning! Who did he hear it from?

Someone suggested it, I thought it was Coldburn.

I hated it when it was suggested and then thought--damn it kind of makes sense for people who grew up in Sanctuary.

After 150 years, it makes sense that some bitter people decided to stop referring to "day" in the underdark and likely picked up the term "dark" because "good night" wouldn't work and there is nothing but "dark" in the underdark.

I always figured it was a way to tell quickly who was native and who wasn't once I started using it with my characters.

I like it - that is why I use it. It makes sense to me, as others pointed out, it is impossible to tell if it is day or night in Sanctuary. It is just a neat cultural nuance.

All my characters ultimately end up saying it, no matter where they came from, and I view it simply as part of the natural assimilation process into Sanctuarian society. They'll begin by saying good day, and as they hear other people saying good dark, they will begin saying it as well. (Although the first few times they'll start to say day instead of dark, and correct themselves - just to emphasize that it is a new term for them.)

I originally heard the term used by Frum Highill as Melrick. I didn't really start hearing other people use it until after him, but that is where Melrick picked up the term.

I don't like it either.

It just doesn't seem to make much sense to me! Good day and good night are references to the time frame, surely? Since when was dark a portion of the day? And not day in the sense of what you see, day in the sense of a timeframe.

I think one underlying thing that bothers me about it that this is an ex-slave town, who pretty much all desire to make it to the surface one day. Good "dark" makes me think they're embracing the enviroment they're in, and that's just meh.

I personally dislike the term, but as with Oro I think, at least for natives, it makes some amount of sense.

ExileStrife I think one underlying thing that bothers me about it that this is an ex-slave town, who pretty much all desire to make it to the surface one day. Good "dark" makes me think they're embracing the enviroment they're in, and that's just meh.

After 150 years of seeking a way out thats pretty much it. Embracing or just plain content with scrapping a living down bellow.

I dont see it related to time either, but more of a greeting. Wonder who did it first.

ExileStrife I think one underlying thing that bothers me about it that this is an ex-slave town, who pretty much all desire to make it to the surface one day. Good "dark" makes me think they're embracing the enviroment they're in, and that's just meh.

I think if you're born and raised there, your parents live there, your grandparents live there--young kids live there. I'd expect a fair portion of the population realizes how pathetically crazy it is to "walk the elderly of Sanctuary" through dozens of miles of Underdark caves to reach the surface. For these folks, there isn't desire or real hope of the surface.

The Optimist Club is the Seekers, and I always got the feeling most people think they're either optimistically naive or naively stupid.

Not using Good Day and the such kind of does make sense for natives but I'm still thinking about any kind of alternative since this just doesn't sound right.. -_-

I think the one who actually did make it up has left the sinking ship like a rat, long ago.

I don't mind it. And it certainly makes sense for those consigned to living in Sanctuary. The problem is there's no way of knowing whether its day or night not only from a perspective of light/dark, but that we don't know the actual time at any point in sanctuary, only the date. And since we all live in different timezones, making a reference to the time of the day can be quite jarring for someone else.

"Dark" is clearly the most obvious word because of the fact its what the caverns are called: Underdark or sometimes just 'Dark.

People who don't like it can easily use other greetings, farewells and generic blessings and benedictions such as "safe travel" instead of good day or "sleep/rest well" instead of good night.

As for its provenance, no idea. I use it as well though.

We have water clocks!

I think it's a funny joke and it perfectly fits the dismal dreary atmosphere of Sanctuary perfectly. It completely represents the attitude of the people, the world weary masses trapped in a place without day or night, and only the light of fire to guide their way...

"'What time is it?' It's bloody Dark O'Clock, what time do you think it is, jerk? There's no sun! No Day! No Night! It's just dark"

It hasn't really bothered me at all, and I've only just started using it myself asmy current char despises the incorrect use of language, and she can't see a better alternative.

:P

As far as aiding immersion, it works for me!

I think one underlying thing that bothers me about it that this is an ex-slave town, who pretty much all desire to make it to the surface one day. Good "dark" makes me think they're embracing the enviroment they're in, and that's just meh.

I think you are over estimating the human psyche. Humans are made to adapt and accept their surroundings, both physically and mentally. A good example of this is capture bonding.

"Fighting hard to protect yourself and your relatives is good for your genes, but when captured and escape is not possible, giving up short of dying and making the best you can of the new situation is also good for your genes. In particular it would be good for genes that built minds able to dump previous emotional attachments under conditions of being captured and build new social bonds to the people who have captured you. The process should neither be too fast (because you may be rescued) nor too slow (because you don't want to excessively try the patience of those who have captured you...")

In essence, this is what has happened in Sanctuary on a massive scale. People have formed new bonds, new attachments, and have built a new community. This is all built upon the fact that many are former slaves, or know someone who has endured slavery, giving the people of the city something to bond around. It is a shared experience in which they can all relate to on some level. This bonding is further encouraged through the many trials and tribulations they face as a community, forcing the people to bond even more closely in order to survive.

Oro summed up how most, if not all, my characters viewed the Seekers and how I believe they are perceived in general. Certainly, the city is filled with people who would rather be living on the surface, but 98% of those people realize that it is nothing more than a pipe dream.

Even if you are filthy rich on the surface - even if you are a king, there is no point in returning. By the time you return there would be someone else on the throne, your valuables and wealth divided among your kin - who are more than likely not willing to give it all back. To those you left behind on the surface, you're dead or missing and while they may have waited the first two weeks or so, hoping against hope that you'd return - they've moved on with their life - putting you behind them as nothing but a memory.

That's the reality of being trapped in Sanctuary, and I'm sure most people who come from the surface, especially those who have been in the Underdark for more than a month, realize as fact and truth.

The Seekers only keep a dead dream alive, a tiny flicker of hope in an otherwise dreary and forlorn existence. They are the naive optimists in society, the folk all the rational people love to hate.

...and speaking of hate. I really don't understand all the hate toward the phrase "Good Dark". It's a greeting as well as a goodbye, similar to Aloha in Hawaiian. After 150+ Years such people would have already developed their own slang and cultural identity.

But yeah, anyway - Strife I think it's safe to say that Sanctuarians ARE embracing the environment they are in, it would make little sense for them to do otherwise.

I don't think they're embracing the world they've been stuck in, more like accepting it. An enormous amount of the population would love to make it to the surface one day, every time you say "good dark" you're throwing that dream away. :(

:twisted:

Of course, I kill dreams on a regular basis. Sanctuary is the place dreams come to die.

Although, I did like one crazy person's explanation for Sanctuary. Basically, we're all dead and trapped in hell, because we're all evil sinners and being trapped in Sanctuary is our eternal punishment. The demons torment us by dangling what we most desire in front of our eyes, but always keep it just out of reach.

EDIT:

Of course you're right. The vast majority of the population would love to make it to the surface, but they are also realistic enough to understand that it is never going to happen. I would imagine the fact that everyone who has made the attempt to escape - and never returned - is only indication that it isn't possible. That is why most of my characters ultimately view the Seekers as a detriment to society as a whole, keeping people stuck in a fuzzy dream world rather than facing the reality in which they are trapped.

Mbizi?

Basically, it depends on the character. I don't think I ever heard any of Team Drow say "Good dark." Of course, we were drow and really didn't give a $#!& about anything but ourselves.

That said, I think it is best used as a RP tool. If you say "Good dark," it is a good indication you have accepted your fate, and have no aspirations for the surface.

Perhaps it is just those that belong on the surface that would try to come up with a comparable phrase to "Good Night" and "Good Day"(not to mention "Good Morning").

>_>

I'm going to second what metro said, in response to the original question. Mbizi!

As for "good dark," I like it. I think some people in Sanctuary have indeed abandoned their hopes of ever truly escaping to the surface, though certainly not all, and there are even some people who do not want to escape at all -- "better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven." It is actually one of the major ideological conflicts within the town, and is reflected in all sorts of different ways, and I fully support it being reflected in very language as well.

For example, notice that the Seekers and their supporters use Dale Reckoning or the Ascension calender (or they should be, *cough cough*) whereas the entrenched groups use the official Years Since The Founding calender -- one reflects an ardent (even ... cultish?) refusal to give up the flickering dream of escaping to the surface, and the other reflects an acceptance of the current situation and a dutiful willingness to build a working society with what they have now.

As several of you have already observed, this division and conflict is a major theme of our setting, and I am happy to see it being reflected in new ways as the server grows.

I don't mind the 'Good Dark' expression, but I really do hate 'Last Dark' or other similar use of 'dark', as they use it to express yesterday or tomorrow, or two days ago -how can you mesure a dark!? That's exactly why they started using dark -you don't know if it's a day or night!

It was hard to get used to saying "Good dark"-- but you know- I got so used to typing it that when I visit other servers, I make the mistake of saying "Good dark" to people. And yes, they all look at me like I have a third arm, or "stupid" painted on my forehead.

Now-- the Aussie in me has me saying "G'dark" to people. Lets just call it a coloquial expression. If you can't tell when its day or night, then when do you go to bed? When do you eat breakfast? How do you tell what time it is when you don't have an hourglass handy?

Alstro said it best--- "We say "good dark" because it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...."

^_^

Uh huh. I invented Todark! Good dark was 'invented' by some society member as I seem to recall. Coldburn tried to invent 'Goldburns' - Sanctuary's official currency, but was denied to do so. :lol:

That Crossbow will cost you five Coldburns and three Wiggyboys.

Wouldn't you think by now, that -most- of the people who occupy Sanctuary would be:

1) Down here so long they've lost all hope of seeing the surface, and so the bitterness makes them hate the term "good day"

2) Raised in Sanctuary, thus no concept of what day is

3) New citizens that 'escape' from captors, on average, would be at least semi rare. It's not like the Underdark is one big prison break! I mean there's lot of slaver races, but how much of your average citizens do you really think escaped from vile captors with more strength, and power than them?

Summoned Rat Arcanist We have water clocks!

We have water clocks? Where?

Vlaid Wouldn't you think by now, that -most- of the people who occupy Sanctuary would be:

1) Down here so long they've lost all hope of seeing the surface, and so the bitterness makes them hate the term "good day"

2) Raised in Sanctuary, thus no concept of what day is

3) New citizens that 'escape' from captors, on average, would be at least semi rare. It's not like the Underdark is one big prison break! I mean there's lot of slaver races, but how much of your average citizens do you really think escaped from vile captors with more strength, and power than them?

Mashai We have water clocks? Where?

Summoned Rat Arcanist

Vlaid Wouldn't you think by now, that -most- of the people who occupy Sanctuary would be:

1) Down here so long they've lost all hope of seeing the surface, and so the bitterness makes them hate the term "good day"

2) Raised in Sanctuary, thus no concept of what day is

3) New citizens that 'escape' from captors, on average, would be at least semi rare. It's not like the Underdark is one big prison break! I mean there's lot of slaver races, but how much of your average citizens do you really think escaped from vile captors with more strength, and power than them?

I believe the majority of Sanctuary's citizens are supposed to be escaped slaves.

Sanctuary needs a Domsday book.

I don't know who started it, but I remember when I first heard it. I think I heard it from Jones first.

I find the usage good and well as we are in so many different time zones and play at different times.

My day and night may be quite different from yours.

I suppose if we all lived by the Dark Lake we could say "Good Intide", or "Good Outide". But we don't, ... at least none of my characters do, least not since the Blue Mushroom was put out of commission.

We need more Deep Gnomes! Someone bring 'em back.

Pywen?

My problem with "Good Dark" is that it offers no difference between one day and the next. It is always dark. While that might seem immediately obvious, at the same time it makes the statement entirely meaningless. You might as well say "Good Century" or "Good Millennium". As I mentioned before, it may be most accurately used by those who have actually seen "day" and "night". They are the only ones who would care about night and day. Underdark dwellers have no such reference. Why say "Good Dark", when you could just say "Goodbye", "So long", "Take care", "Suck my (@(%", or anything else.

The darkness is given.

Just my thoughts.

Isn't that one of the things about the setting, though? In a constantly dark environment, with little or no possibility of keeping track of time, everything is just a constant "now". There is no tomorrow, no today, and no yesterday - all concept of time just goes out the window.

That's sort of what I'm saying. It really doesn't bother me (I don't use it, personally) if I see it. I just think it's very obviousness makes it meaningless. I suppose if you don't think of it as referring to any time at all, it makes some sense. I merely was saying that things like "Good night","Good day","Good morning", and the like all refer to times of the day.

Pup Perhaps it is just those that belong on the surface that would try to come up with a comparable phrase to "Good Night" and "Good Day"(not to mention "Good Morning").

But as I said, it doesn't really bother me. I never would've said anything if this thread hadn't asked. :)

Its "dark" humor really. There is a sarcasm in the statement, you're exactly right Pup. It is meaningless, in a land that for many holds no meaning. Therefore, ironically appealing I'm certain to a grim people.

Crosswind I like it. =)

-bigmike

fixed lol. ur name is already ther u dont need to sine lol

Anyways, you're weird, and anybody who says it is weird, but I doubt it's going away any time soon.

Oh well. Good net, everybody!