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Sub-race questions

I wanted the player view on this, and the dm view if they wish to partake. I was wondering , after a discussion with Chezcalienta, what does it mean "To play a subrace?"

After all, say, if I played a tiefling, everything I do, I could do with a normal charctor, the sacraficial habits to demons etc... If I played an Aasimar Paladin, a regular paladin could simply do the same as a paladin, destroying evil etc... A regular elf could be evil and sell slaves to drow or duegar. A regular dwarf could sell slaves to duegar or drow.

I am asking, What makes a subrace special?

Environment. Culture. That is, the Character's History.

While an elf could sell slaves the same way as a drow might, they would be less inclined to do so, due to upbringing and therefore, the drow slaver is a more plausible character concept.

Human demon cultists are not very common, but that's not the only thing. A Tiefling, especially one who spent most of his life on Toril, might have an entirely different outlook on life than a human, due to his appearance, and society's reaction, and therefore would be more inclined to be evil.

Imagine putting two people in the same exact environment, the same culture, the same people, but having one be a human and one be a tiefling. The human will grow up normal and be accepted into the community (most likey). The tiefling will be a social pariah, always scorned and hated for his scaly skin and brimstone stench. Because of that, the tiefling is more inclined to hate other people. The idea behind subraces, is for making certain concepts more plausible than others.

Anyway, the same examples go for the dwarf vs duergar, and aasimar examples.

Dwarves face huge pressure from their society to grow up honorably, while a Duergar society is far more inclined to chaos and a cutthroat attitude.

An Aasimar is essentially 'closer to god', because of his birth, and so, as the others, is more inclined to smite evil. A regular paladin is perfectly normal, but the boy who goes to the church to become a paladin may have been -less- inclined to do it.

Kotenku While an elf could sell slaves the same way as a drow might, they would be less inclined to do so, due to upbringing and therefore, the drow slaver is a more plausible character concept.

Plausibility really is an anti with some RPers, you know. I once knew someone who played a character (did so brilliantly, for reference's), who was a Harper, a Werewolf, a friend of one of the Seven Sisters (or whatever those daughters of Mystra are called) and had been cursed to forever remain trapped on an island on pain of death of his beloved.

Things like that have got no place on a PW story server, Plausibility is key here. I'm sure stuff like that is fine in just about everywhere else, - even a good thing, at that, but quite frankly, in a setting where the characters are intended to be weaker than the environment, it's just entirely inappropriate.

Marfdasko
Kotenku While an elf could sell slaves the same way as a drow might, they would be less inclined to do so, due to upbringing and therefore, the drow slaver is a more plausible character concept.

Plausibility really is an anti with some RPers, you know. I once knew someone who played a character (did so brilliantly, for reference's), who was a Harper, a Werewolf, a friend of one of the Seven Sisters (or whatever those daughters of Mystra are called) and had been cursed to forever remain trapped on an island on pain of death of his beloved.

I need a new keyboard. My w, t, and f keys all simultaneously just broke.

Oh, and coincedentally, the guy was also a master merchant while being a druid at the same time.

Thomas_Not_very_wise I am asking, What makes a subrace special?

I am going to assume you mean application-only subraces.

Rare PC races add flavor and unique RP opportunities. Keeping their numbers limited maintains this.

Do not forget the special abilities application races have. The bonuses may appear minor, but I assure you that they make quite a difference. If anyone could be any subrace he or she wanted, then "normal" elves, humans, etc., would become the oddities.

As far as obtaining an application subrace, Howland and company have said time and again that well-written applications, with solid concepts and goals that will involve other players have the best shot at success. It is also extremely helpful to be a known, responsible role-player that the DMs have confidence in.

And lastly:

Application FAQ

I. Why does EfU require apps for some races, factions, and prestige classes?

Applications allow us to maintain consistancy in the world. For example, if we get too many drow, it will ruin the feel and special quality of the race. If we get too many prestige classes, they lose their prestige. If we get too many people just joining a faction, the factions will lose focus, as inappriate characters affect them. The application process is not there for a power trip for the DM's, as a way to punish players, or as a way to gives stuff to "friends of DM's". The app process if very important to keep a cohesive server, and make things more fun for the player base as a whole. We feel it is a worthwhile sacrifice for both the DM's and the players.

Why play Dwarves and Elves when you could do it all with a Human?

Thomas_Not_very_wise I wanted the player view on this, and the dm view if they wish to partake. I was wondering , after a discussion with Chezcalienta, what does it mean "To play a subrace?"

After all, say, if I played a tiefling, everything I do, I could do with a normal charctor, the sacraficial habits to demons etc... If I played an Aasimar Paladin, a regular paladin could simply do the same as a paladin, destroying evil etc... A regular elf could be evil and sell slaves to drow or duegar. A regular dwarf could sell slaves to duegar or drow.

I am asking, What makes a subrace special?

The sweetest thing about playing a subrace (IMO) is portraying their unique and usually outlandish characteristics.

For example, roleplaying the terrifying aspect of your drow by highlighting the differences inherent when compared to standard races. I still recall the unease I felt when I first met Zau because of the simple emote "stares out from beneath the helm with cruel lilac eyes," or something similar. The portrayal of that single alien physical characteristic really brought home the sense of dread the character invoked.

Of course, this can be extended to any other subrace. I think teiflings and aasimar especially could be great for this.

The downside of playing subraces is that it can be rather restrictive on one's choice of concept and roleplay, to varying degrees depending on the subrace.

My last long-term character on this server was drow. I realized pretty quickly that I had much less freedom when it came to personality, background, ambitions and character class than I'd had with many of my previous characters, for the simple reason that drow is a very heavily stereotyped subrace. It's difficult to be original while at the same time keeping within the limits of plausibility, given that drow should be cunning, malicious, back-stabbing and plot-spinning devils. (You'll have a hard time getting your drow approved if you aren't.) If anyone thinks playing one of the "cooler" races means automatically more fun, they're very, very wrong: although I personally did have a lot of fun with my drow -- largely thanks to a great faction involved in an awesome plot -- it takes a lot of work both in and out of game to do just what Caddies mentioned, portray the subrace's unique and usually outlandish characteristics, while at the same time having fun with a concept you're satisfied with. You don't want your character's subrace's legacy to turn into boring predictability when playing the character. There's a very good reason why the DMs generally require proof of solid RP before they approve a subrace application.

I tend to view races other than human in general and subraces in particular as corporeal manifestations or embodiments of certain human traits. Take malice, hatred and sadism and couple these with cunning, charisma, unpreditability and darkly ethereal beauty: you have a drow. Take a pronounced sense of humor and the analytic mind of a scientist and couple these with elusiveness and slight craziness: you have a gnome. Take bullheadedness and a gruff but boisterous demeanor and couple these with loyalty, trustworthiness and diligency: you have a dwarf. I'm sure you can come up with more for all of these and every other non-human race out there, but where I'm getting at is that humans, as a D&D race, contain the possibility for any of these traits, in varying quantities and combinations -- even (or rather, particularly) unorthodox and original ones.

There are no restrictions such as above when playing a human, there is no pre-set mold to fill before you're allowed to let your creative juices flow. That's why humans are by far the easiest race to play, but most of the time also -- in my opinion -- the most fun race to play once you get to know your own roleplaying talents and specialities better. Humans have the most potential for the kind of powerful, memorable personalities that everyone strives for in the end. And what is perhaps even more important is that humans can always change: given the appropriate events and experiences, a human paladin can fall from grace and become the greatest nemesis of their former friends whereas an aasimar paladin cannot plausibly do so; and in the same way, a human murderer can slowly repent and learn to do good if pushed towards that direction, whereas the odds of a drow character ever being dynamic enough for that are close to zero.

As a character who has played a number of subraces, I believe subraces are special for one sole reason:

As caddies said, their racial characteristics amplify RP.

Can a man sit across the table and yell at a man, scaring the man to work for him? Yes.

Can a tiefling with one hand and glowing red eyes that light up the entire room, demanding he works for him or else, scare him better? Yes.

Any one subrace can do anything on the server. The special applications have unique characteristics that amplify their RP.

My character Chkthel was a duergar (Shocking), and rather than being a human who hated dwarves for stealing his business, or what have you, he was -racially- inclined to hate them. He viewed them as lazy drunkards who killed for no purpose.

The beauty of Subraces is it can take a normal concept, and much like A DM on a scripted quest, add spice.

Like Anthee said, races and subraces are aspects of human personalities.

And sorry, this just caught my eye and I've got a big "thing" for CHA, and I can't let things slip through the net that might be taken as law on the subject when it's inaccurate.

Random_White_Guy

Can a man sit across the table and yell at a man, scaring the man to work for him? Yes.

Can a tiefling with one hand and glowing red eyes that light up the entire room, demanding he works for him or else, scare him better? Yes.

Actually, no, given that Tieflings get a -2 CHA score. They're inherently better at being revolting than intimidating, and a Tiefling will never have higher intimidate than a human (if both are gunning for the stat, and if you're a crime boss, you should). The archetypal Tiefling is usually going to adopt a subservient role, ideally one with little contact with other people, such as assassin or some kind of rogue, not generally a leadership figure as they're not limelight subraces or figures (their hide bonus reflects this) and are generally shunned (-2 CHA) for being different in a way that just isn't natural. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, but a tiefling will never make a better leader than a human (leader).

Choose your races and subraces carefully.

Oh, I'm well aware of the fact that tieflings can't be better leaders than humans, Lado. I was just trying to show how subrace stuff can influence RP and mix things up.

Also, the -2 cha is easily countered if you find a menacing item (to boost that intimidate), which are around quite a bit.

It's not -better- than a human leader, it's just a different.

Anyways, that's off topic, so I'll swing on back with this thought:

Many times when thinking of a subrace concept, the question "Why use this subrace rather than just a human?" should come to mind. That alone would add to the interesting goals/perspectives/ideals that would come from that subrace.

The item thing is irrelevant. If your hypothetical Tiefling has found a +2 intimidate item, so has my hypothetical human, which puts him ahead in intimidate still. It's not at all meaningful to start appealing to items to even things out when discussing racial bonuses.

Even if we grant you your +2 intimidate item and leave our human naked, the governing stat is still CHA, and you've not modified that, and that is where the deficiency lies. This is like taking asprin to cure cancer. A Tiefling with gigantic intimidate and very low CHA will be horrifying to behold, but he'd likely be too shy to tell someone what to do, and so his intimidate only manifests in a kind of passive way. No doubt people would do exactly as he told them if he told them, but his inhibited personality won't allow him that. A human therefore makes better use of the intimidate he has.

And no, It's not -better- than a human leader, it's worse. Categorically.

Don't downplay the import of CHA! CHA 4 eva!

This is way off topic now. :oops:

Ladocicea This is way off topic now. :oops:

That's such a shame too. It was a good question!

Hopefully it was answered well enough, though.

Ladocicea A Tiefling with gigantic intimidate and very low CHA will be horrifying to behold, but he'd likely be too shy to tell someone what to do, and so his intimidate only manifests in a kind of passive way.

I don't think low charisma is only being expressed by shyness. You could have an annoying person, someone who always shouts and bullies, even when not needed in order to come up for his confidence and probably many other ways.

I, for one, am playing a lowered charisma Wizard. Aside from boosting his charisma (lol, constant charisma boosting sounds like drugs :P), I try to make him as annoying and full of himself all the time, while using his magic as his escape route and "safe zone".

It's a very composite stat and a lot of things play into it, it just amuses me to no end that on EFU a huge hulking barbarian who puts on a pretty dress like Colivin's and applies Ghail's Mystery perfume would be incomparably more efficient at raging.

Must be that he gets angry at people poking fun at him?

The Duergar carved themselves out a large portion of the Underdark by being foot-shuffling 'fraidy cats.