I've been paging through a few D&D books, and wondered how come we don't have the ability to choose Asmodeus or Mephistoles? I think that either of those two could rank as a diety, as they both are said to hold large followings.

I'm pretty sure you could type Cream Cheese Bagels in the deity field if you so desired. The only issue is whether or not what you type in the deity field is a supported deity when it comes to divine spellcasters. Clerics, Paladins, and Druids all require a recognized deity who grants their spells to them in exchange for worship, prayer, and service. Asmodeus and Captain Corelli or whoever are not deities, and non-deities don't grant spells except under unique circumstances.

All hail.

Kinda on topic--

According to DnD rules second edition, it was discovered that you could be a level 2 cleric and have yourself as the diety.

"I pray to myself and give myself spells. Whoopah!"

Just a bit of trivia for ya!

^_^

And with the wide range of supported dieties, I am suprised I don't hear from some of the more bizzare ones.

(insert whatever joke you feel like saying about someone elses preaching about their fav diety) :P

I worship the All Ighty Ollar.

According to the BoVD, devil lords/demon princes do not grant spells as they are not gods (Apart from Orcus?), but very, very, very powerful outsiders that could probably kill major deities if they were in a one on one fight.

Prideaux According to the BoVD, devil lords/demon princes do not grant spells as they are not gods (Apart from Orcus?), but very, very, very powerful outsiders that could probably kill major deities if they were in a one on one fight.

Thats up to interpretation, mate. The gifts of magic they would bestow on their followers would not be "devine" -- but they can grant magic by "tainting the soul" of their follower.

Of course, this all goes back to the "how do you want to RP it" arguement. If you are saying that only the strongest gods can grant devine spells, then you deny the followers of the sub deities.

And who's to say that the devine magic comes from that specific deity? If you worship a pantheon, does the magic come from Odin, or from his son Thor? Or both? If you worship Odin, are your spells stronger cause Odin has more power?

Now as for the two mentioned here-- you may not recieve devine magic, but surely, if you paid attention to a very strong entity that desired your complete devotion, you might recieve gifts other than the ability to throw some minor buffs around and such.

"And Mestopheles appeard to me and said "Be my cleric!" And he gave me this really nice pair of socks that cure athelets foot when worn. Something to do with being made with brimstone or something...."

Something like this has been talked about before. Here is the link in case your interested.

https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/13/13343/idea-for-new-deities-to-add/index.html?amp;highlight=asmodeus

And as always, if you want something that isnt normally available, you can always try to app for it.

Forgive me, when I said spells, I meant cleric spells which is in the context of the discussion. In Faerun you cannot receive your cleric spells from an entire pantheon, you receive your spells from a specific deity.

Devils and demons are not gods because they do -not- require followers to maintain their power. Sure, there are thralls and disciples of the various demon princes / devil lords that receive special abilities as part of a prestige class, but they are not clerical.

Yes, you might come into contact with a lower plane outsider (Extremely unlikely to be a devil lord / demon prince) and make an arrangement where your soul belongs to the certain demon/devil which will likely be consumed or used to fuel Baator's / the Abyss' power come the death of the mortal, but this should not be mistaken for a deity coming to collect his follower's soul in the Fugue and take him/her back to it's home plane. A being can only become a deity with Ao's express permission and it should be known that some beings that are not deity's are more powerful than some deities.

Edit: Forgive the typos and words used in the wrong context, extremely tired

This area is as much a subject to inconsistencies and contradictions as many other parts of D&D.

However, there are more sources indicating that certain demons and devils can grant spells in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms both, and that those spells are divine, than there are against it. Gargauth has been a god for a while, and Orcus recently ascended as well, so these should, per 3.5, grant divine spells, but Asmodeus, for instance, also can grant divine spells to his cultists despite him "only" being an archdevil.

As for EfU, I heard second-hand that the official answer is no, devils and demons do not grant spells.

I'm guilty in posting the above.

Snoteye

However, there are more sources indicating that certain demons and devils can grant spells in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms both, and that those spells are divine, than there are against it. Gargauth has been a god for a while, and Orcus recently ascended as well, so these should, per 3.5, grant divine spells, but Asmodeus, for instance, also can grant divine spells to his cultists despite him "only" being an archdevil.

While you're at it, give me also a reference of Asmodeus in particular being said to be able to grant divine spells in the Forgotten Realms. Note that there's a difference between disciple powers and divine spells, as the former requires a specific kind of contract between the outsider and the disciple. The powers are not spells per se, IIRC, but rather spell-like or supernatural abilities.

I do not have a quote referencing Asmodeus specifically, but I'm pretty sure there's a sidebar in the FRCS that mentions this (I don't have access to it right now). As for them being divine (I did not say clerical), that would be Fiendish Codex.

When it comes to only deities being able to grant divine spells, see my note about inconsistencies and contradictions -- I don't personally like the idea of clerics of Asmodeus (or zuggtmoy or Yeenoghu).

I also was not talking about powers, but actual spells.

Anthee

I'd like to hear what those sources are. I know of precisely zero Forgotten Realms sourcebooks where it is noted that demon princes and/or archdevils can grant divine spells; while on the other hand, numerous sources (such as F&P, IIRC) state explicitly that only deities are able to do that. This comes up in another context also, which is druids and how they acquire spells: F&P states that in the Forgotten Realms, druids cannot gain their spells directly from "nature", but instead must worship a nature deity to be able to cast spells. That is of course for the above reason: in the Forgotten Realms, only deities can grant divine spells.

While you're at it, give me also a reference of Asmodeus in particular being said to be able to grant divine spells in the Forgotten Realms. Note that there's a difference between disciple powers and divine spells, as the former requires a specific kind of contract between the outsider and the disciple. The powers are not spells per se, IIRC, but rather spell-like or supernatural abilities.

Asmodeus has clerics in the Forgotten Realms. A wide number of devil and demon lords do. The most widely known is Yeenoghu the demon lord who grants spells to gnolls, but there is also Baphomet the demon lord that grants spells to minotaurs. Several Realms books have gone out of their way to point out these are demons, not gods as Orcus is.

Its not worth the effort to find the specific book, even though its printed in several Realms books though. Just go re-examine the more obvious choices and I'm sure you'll stumble across it. Lords of Darkness is probably the one I'd start with.

So, we've much contradiction.

DM decision?

It would require an extraordinary circumstance for your character to receive spells from any of the mentioned beings above. Such things definitely require an application, if they are ever to be suitable for EFU. It's very likely that it would be difficult to get such a thing approved.

IIRC there are a small few that do grant spells as they care enough about mortals to bother with it. The two I can think of are Orcus and Pazuzu/Pazrael. I think they're the only ones supported in EFU as well!

I've always liked the concept of the Ur-Priest. An Ur-Priest basically taps into the power flow going from a deity to a cleric, and steals that power to use for himself. They get the same spells as cleric, only they don't get domain powers or get to cast cure or inflict spells spontaneously, and I think they may get less spells/day as well.

Metro_Pack IIRC there are a small few that do grant spells as they care enough about mortals to bother with it. The two I can think of are Orcus and Pazuzu/Pazrael. I think they're the only ones supported in EFU as well!

I have to note, however, that there is in fact a sidebar at the very beginning of F&P stating that some powerful demons and devils have "found ways to garner power from mortal worshipers in the same manner as deities", and goes on to mention that they (actually) grant spells. So I was wrong -- although it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that my mistaken impression really was due to a conflicting source. WotC does that often. But while I'm at this, I should also note that the manner of contract between an outsider and a mortal is indeed very different from the one between a cleric and their deity: to put it short, devil/demon worshipers don't have as many restrictions on behaviour as clerics and they don't have to follow any specific set of morals or dogma (failure to do which would result in loss of spells for clerics). Mostly, the worshiper just has to make frequent sacrifices to appease the outsider. And then there's of course the little thing about losing your soul.

Still, in the end, EfU has its own rules which I think have been made clear enough by now.

I am aware that Orcus had ascended, but he granted spells before he did so.