I really think that this quest should be either toned up or dropped to a lvl 3/4 cap. While running through it last night it posed very little challenge until metro showed up with some much needed spice. This lead me to believe that it should have either began with tougher spawns, or been capped at a lower lvl.

Can be soloed by a level 5-6 fighter.

I can buff it up a bit, but I'm a bit bewildered.

(1) Nasty traps (2) Largish spawns, some with monsters that sneak around in stealth with nasty sneaks attacks (deadly on low levels) (3) 1/3 of the enemies have a debilitating fear howl that can be deadly on non-protected groups

I like hard quests, but I guess some quests will be easy with a well prepared group.

But I'll see what I can do.

Rogue helped to avoid the traps, frontline seemed to deal easily enough with the spawns and most of the time we made our saves on the fear (what's the DC on that?).

Maybe it would be as simple as raising the DC on the fear and adding a tougher spawn here and there? I share in your confusion, though, it looks tougher on paper then it ends up being.

The traps are easily spotted by a character with 0 points on search.

I've not seen any of those sneak attacks, and the monsters are generally 1 hit kill. A fighter with cleave makes absolute mince of them, I've seen it myself. Greater cleave is a major bastard. You can eradicate groups of 6 in one swoop.

The fear can be negated by prt VS evil and failing that, it doesn't really do much because the spawns can't really hurt a fighter that is feared significanly anyway.

I've done it three times paired with a level 5-6 fighter, and all times (Even once with extra-spawns from a DM, I think), I was basically watching a slaughter.

I guess I've just made myself public enemy number 1 now, because next reset it'll probably be ridiculously hard. :lol:

Hobgoblins are supposed to me skilled martially. Perhaps find a way to make them seem a bit more organized. Traps that can't be walked around and some more archers perhaps?

... They're drunk though. :P

Totally blootered.

I dont think its too easy. When I did it with a 6 person group, varied levels, the fear checks were failed by plenty, people went to badlywounded/near death, i lost my animal companion. it was tough. admittedly if you pfe youre going to be a lot easier off, and if youre more organized, sure. i think any quest should be easier if youre militaristically organized, and should be tough if you leeroy jenkins on it.

I don't think this is too easy at all quite the oppisite. Its a challenge. Much like a certain other qeust involving gnolls you need to be protected your you will quickly be minced up. Even with protection if your warrior isn't an overy aggressive one those hobgoblins can take time to kill. Although I would reccomend giving them a little more diciplin.

Snaz just sucks. >_> <_<

My opinion on this quest is as follows:

I've participated in this quest twice as a level 5 mage. The party consisted of around 5 people each time.

Fear was a pretty big set back. Unless at least one warrior has protection versus evil, it can be a real bad situation. Contrary to what most have said it my party often failed the saves, but it just could have been bad rolls. The next time I did the quest I threw PvE on a fighter and didn't have a real hard time.

Some of the shaman were throwing around blindness/deafness. Even though it took one guy out of the fight, it really didn't hurt us too bad. We just had to sit around for like a minute until it wore off.

The traps are bad, but there's only two of them in the same spot. People who have run the quest once before don't make the mistake of running over them. The second time I went out this lower level guy stepped on one and got himself killed instantly. There's only two and they aren't much of a threat. In response to an earlier idea to make the trap go across the hall, I would agree if you could actually disarm the trap.

The guys themselves don't have a ton of HP or super high AC. Nice for the people in the back, obstacle shaped pieces of meat for the front. And while I agree it isn't up to the same difficulty as other quests offered at the same level, I really enjoyed it being a relatively simple, nearby thing to do at the 5th level.

If it can be solo'd by a 6th level fighter though, there's obviously something wrong. I'd recommend randomizing traps (1.67 thing, if doable), maybe beefing up the guys a bit (quarterstaffs are easily the worst melee weapon available, maybe heavier armor), giving shaman an attack spell like magic missle or negative energy ray.

Or just make it a max level 4 quest.

I agree that this quest is a bit too easy. My ranger can spot the traps about a mile away and kill two or three enemies whit her bow before they get anywhere near her. (going into this quest will a good fighter makes it all the more easy) And the fear thing barely does anything to me. Only once have I seen someone die on this quest and that was because he could not see the trap I warned him about. I could be improved by adding archers and more traps that are harder to spot. Stronger enimies could also make this more intersting.

I'm just curious what part of "Drunken Hobgoblins" made the preists / mages among you decide to memorize Prot. Evil?

If you attack the quest not knowing what to expect, like it was the first time, its quite tough.

prestonhunt I'm just curious what part of "Drunken Hobgoblins" made the preists / mages among you decide to memorize Prot. Evil?

If you attack the quest not knowing what to expect, like it was the first time, its quite tough.

Hobgoblins are usually Lawful Evil. That could do it. ;)

For the record I always prepare a couple remove fear spells. It usually ends up being useless, but it was a pleasent surprise on this quest. No protections from evil though, the thing is I noticed that we only got feared at the end, otherwise most of us made our saves. I don't remember what the DC was.

What is the average level that you usually do the quest with? Doing it last night wasn't difficult, however it was not that easy as well, and required some healing. The goblins aren't too difficult, but the hobgoblins can hit for a good amount sometimes.

I've done the quest three or four times already, and I notice very little problems. Granted, taking a 7-group party, when the 4 fighters are still in the other area, and you advance with 10-14 AC characters, it can get tough. But as soon as you are even slightly organized, it is not too bad. The fear effect is not that bad either, nor are any of the traps. I'd rate the entire quest as rewarding.

Trap comments are fair, theyre the most notoriously metagamed peace of info on scripted quests. Players walk around the 'bad' areas, though the newbies are sometimes put through the 'hazing ritual' of having to die to a trap. If its possible to put in 3 times as many traps, but only have each trap appear a third of the time, that improves things greatly....especially with traps next to each other, so any attempts to dodge a nonexistent trap, can lead you onto another one.

Protection from evil is itself so overpowered that half a clerics lvl 1 spells are usually PE. (the other half being prot from elements, and sometimes a bless)

Totally immunity is fairly devastating, and +2 ac certainly doesnt hurt in any case. Better than the 1st lvl armouring spell, as it has a longer duration. Personally our group found it a suitable challange, though cutting the max lvl to 4-5 seems sensible, i cant see it being a challange by lvl 6. Its an utter stopper to evil PC casters a lot of the time. It certainly leads to selecting Neutral alignment for spell abuse purposes in servers like CoA.

+4 on saves vs evil/good effects might be sufficient to have it still keep its place as the most taken lvl 1 cleric spell.

Jadelink

I agree with the prot. from alignment issue, I use protection from. . . evil >_> alot and it would be cool if I wasn't totally protected from err. . . evil. . . spellcasters mind effects.

So with the right party, the quest doesn't pose a challenge. So what? What quest does?

Every time I've done this quest, it hasn't been a cakewalk. Just yesterday we had a team of a level 4 fighter/rogue, level 4 rogue, level 4-5 druid and a level 3-4 wizard. The druid and wizard both died once during the quest and there were several close calls throughout it. Alright, so we didn't have any high-levels in the party, but I find it kind of amusing that people start to complain that a quest gets too easy when they themselves get a few levels they didn't use to have.

And just for the record, the fear howl can be and is deadly. Not always, certainly not if you've a cleric handing out prot. evils, but every now and then your group's main fighter fails the save after which the drunken hobgoblins charge the weaker members of the group. It can turn into a slaughter.

So sure, if you feel your level 6 character can't find a challenge in the quest, let's lower the level cap. But if that's the case, please, for everyone's sanity, don't start demanding that the quest be toned up. It's still one of the more difficult quests that people seem to regularly do.

I got something new to add. The quest can be very challenging. Goblin Rogues and Drunk Hobgoblins can hit hard, quick and fast. Yesterday, I got sneaked for 28 damage. Talk about insta-kill. But I have to add, that the party was not organized. I can't stress enough that it's not about the ideal party make-up, but about tactics. Tactics made us survive quests against all odds.

The cap has been and will continue to be level 5.