Coldburn The Paladin: Good vs Evil thread in the General Discussion has set me thinking.

Paladins are able to spam their Detect Evil tool, whenever they feel like it. Is it not an idea, to promote 'thinking', and 'seeing things for themself', that Detect Evil has x uses per day?

That way people will think twice before they examine every PC, NPC, rock, tree, droplet of water thrice (per day) before they act on something. It would be nice.

I don't really see how this would help.

Indeed, they would not use it as much. That is true. And this is good how?

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't paladins usually sence evil. For example while they are talking to someone, their head might start to hurt, eyes get blurry or similar effects. It isn't just a skill that you turn on or off? Perhaps a concentration helps, but can you just turn it off?

Paha Poika Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't paladins usually sence evil. For example while they are talking to someone, their head might start to hurt, eyes get blurry or similar effects. It isn't just a skill that you turn on or off? Perhaps a concentration helps, but can you just turn it off?

The Player's Handbook just states:

Detect Evil (SP): At will, a Paladin can use Detect Evil, as the spell.

Ladocicea I don't really see how this would help.

Indeed, they would not use it as much. That is true. And this is good how?

To ensure players think for themself, instead of heavely relying on the DE tool. It would actually add something nice. Thinking about what's right and wrong > Detect Evil.

[CN Human Fighter is murdering children on the street, for no obvious reason] [Paladin uses Detect Evil: No evil sensed] [Paladin shrugs and moves on] "No evil to see here."

[LE Human Fighter gives a begger a gold coin, to sympathise his miserable life, since the LE Human Fighter was a beggar in the past, as well] [Paladin uses Detect Evil: Evil sensed] [Paladin lays his hand on the pommel of his sword] "Get away, thug, and take that gold coin with you! I will not have your evil intentions corrupt this man!"

Paladins should use detect evil early and often.

Paladins are able to use it as much as they want.

It's in the rules.

I think saying, "It should only be usable 3 times per day" is sort of silly. Even if it would be a convenient excuse for me to ignore that 3/4ths of the server is evil (And so I could quest with them!).

If you don't like paladins calling you out, don't stick around when your character sees one.

[CN Human Fighter is murdering children on the street, for no obvious reason] [Paladin uses Detect Evil: No evil sensed] [Paladin shrugs and moves on] "No evil to see here."

I don't think you need to DE when you see children being randomly slain in the streets, with the murdering screaming incoherently and bathing in their blood. Usually the DMs are pretty good about knocking people down to evil in these instances, and if they haven't you can always suggest it to a DM. In the end, DE shouldn't be relied on.

My thoughts exactly; It shouldn't be relied on. But as

Howland Paladins should use detect evil early and often.

I know PnP has these rules, but I think they're silly, honestly. Everyone is welcome to disagree, though.

Funnily enough, I was tempted to play the "But in PnP..." card, but refrained because I think it's usually quite irrelevant for an NWN online PW.

Buuuuuuuut... It seems you were first to quote the PhB, so surely, if you're gaining authority for arguments such as "PhB says it's a spell" from PhB, then my authority of "PhB says I can use it as many times as I want" is equally valid.

On a separate note, I think it would be neat if detect evil required complete concentration to activate. It seems to me that detect evil is meant to be an intentional action that is not easily undertaken.

I would very much enjoy seeing paladins forced to make everyone be quiet so that he could scan the party. A lot of the time, it seems that paladins just turn on detect evil in the middle of a conversation, without even showing that they're concentrating or doing anything at all. If every piece of dialogue broke concentration, paladins couldn't just hide the fact that they were detecting evil. They'd need to roleplay the action more.

Detect evil is an ability that you have to choose to use, as I understand it. You have to be trying to see the evil. It's not just always going. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Good and Evil are very real, fundamental, primal forces of the setting in which we are playing. Any line of argument which rejects this and attempts to portray Good and Evil as merely relativistic or subjective, no matter how sensible, will simply not apply to our game world.

Characters with an Evil alignment are evil for a reason -- their actions have caused them to become aligned with the greater force of Evil in the world. Characters are not born with an evil alignment; it is rarely forced upon them by mere circumstance, but almost invariably by choices and decisions in which they aided Evil over Good. One's alignment, crucially, is a consequence of his past behavior. It is both legitimate and expected for a paladin to recognize that this and judge people based upon their evil auras.

Attacking anybody with an Evil alignment would be folly. Assuming that everybody with an Evil alignment is beyond redemption, similarly, would be folly. However, very simply put, paladins are required by their code to not associate evil characters on principle, even if it aids the "greater good". Setting aside the "lesser good" on behalf of the "greater good" is indicative of a neutral or chaotic alignment, in which one believes that the ends justify the means. Paladins are expected to behave in a Lawful fashion, which means that they cannot enter into even temporary alliances with evil characters -- they cannot pursue non-Good means to achieve Good ends. They cannot, in short, "get their hands dirty" -- they must remain exemplary rolemodels and ideal champions of their deities. (This is not to say that PCs are required to behave in this fashion: paladins who behave in a chaotic fashion and violate their fundamental principles by knowingly cooperating with evil characters will simply recieve Chaotic shifts and, if their behavior continued unabated, fall from paladinhood. There is no requirement to play a perfect paladin -- just in-character consequences.)

All this considered, it's an extremely restrictive class. Without their "evil radar vision," it'd simply be impossible to adhere to some of the principle required tenents. In my opinion, removing or limiting this ability, so as to force the paladins to guess who's evil and who's not, would not be "nice" -- it would just make life easier for evil characters.

I see detect evil as a sort of sixth sense that can and should be used whenever called for. Paladins have a hard enough time on this server already - finding groups especially, seeing as at least half of the population are evil and thus not acceptable to group with. Restrict their most valuable tool and grouping will be near impossible in the underdark without breaking their codes.

If you don't wish anyone to know that you are evil, you should stay away from Ivandur Reynolt and Ambrose Crownguard, who as far as I know are the only active paladins at the moment. If you are of a high enough level, you needent worry about young paladins at all as they won't be able to pinpoint the "great evil" and will most likely just end up with a headache. There's also been mention of devices that can be used to cloak ones nature - certainly something to look into.

In my opinion, the only cases where it should be obvious that a paladin is detecting evil is when the evil is terribly great. This is already implemented however, as paladins will get the "dazed" effect or somesuch if they fail their will saving throw.

Ladocicea Funnily enough, I was tempted to play the "But in PnP..." card, but refrained because I think it's usually quite irrelevant for an NWN online PW.

Buuuuuuuut... It seems you were first to quote the PhB, so surely, if you're gaining authority for arguments such as "PhB says it's a spell" from PhB, then my authority of "PhB says I can use it as many times as I want" is equally valid.

You miss my point by several miles; I know PhB has these rules, and I do not argue those. But I would like to see it changed in EFU, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Schattenjäger There's also been mention of devices that can be used to cloak ones nature - certainly something to look into.

I was under the impression that nothing, or no one was able to hide from the Detect Evil spell; Whether in a natural, supernatural or magical way.

Coldburn I was under the impression that nothing, or no one was able to hide from the Detect Evil spell; Whether in a natural, supernatural or magical way.

Apparently there's already means of blocking it in-game. https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/68/684/countering-detect-evil/index.html?amp;highlight=detect+evil

No Coldburn, I don't miss your point by several miles. You miss mine by not realising you're calling on the authority of PhB for your argument when it is that very book that dictates it should not be how you want it to be, and furthermore, contradict yourself by saying you're not arguing with PhB rules when clearly you are.

But anyway, I'm not going to litter this thread with pedantry so I'll just say that I don't agree with you and I don't believe it would add anything to the game.

Lets all hug and make up?