Just an idea I had, and I wanted to see what others thought.

What if there was a command like "/c drop pack" that made you drop your pack on the ground exactly like what happens when you are subdued or bleeding out. ie. You'd lose all items not directly equipped on your char and they'd be in a bag on the ground.

This is something that you might only want to do in extreme circumstances or purely for RP.

Practical reasons:

(1) you are carrying a few very heavy things, but all of a sudden need to run from something. Its faster and more realistic (perhaps) to drop your whole pack and hoof it.

(2) You want to drop your whole pack temporarily to enter a certain area. For instance, you put it on the ground while you go swimming (into an underwater area).

Obviously most of the time you'd never use this, but it would be easy to implement (I think) and it could make for some interesting RP.

I like this suggestion!

I am pretty sure that this would be easy to implement.

This'd also be awesome for muggings and bandito theft. Beatdowns would no longer be necessary to relinquish people of their goods.

i also like.

and I also think it solves the problem of others accessing your pack when bleeding to -10. Instead of having the pack drop on bleeding, have it drop automatically on being fugued. IF the player wants others to access their pack during this bleeding time they can use the command. No more unneccessary inventory tetris and quickslotting when you haven't been fugued.

Also agree with the two excellent reasons put by erglion

and I also think it solves the problem of others accessing your pack when bleeding to -10. Instead of having the pack drop on bleeding, have it drop automatically on being fugued. IF the player wants others to access their pack during this bleeding time they can use the command. No more unneccessary inventory tetris and quickslotting when you haven't been fugued.

YES! YES! YESSSSS!! Oh, please, please, please, pretty please with Rebxn spicings on top, PLEASE implement this!!!

*thumbs up*

JackOfSwords YES! YES! YESSSSS!! Oh, please, please, please, pretty please with Rebxn spicings on top, PLEASE implement this!!!

If this were a perfect world, that would be alright, but there are a lot of people that do not enjoy playing along, and a lot of people that don't want to simply fugue their opponent to get at their gear, for whatever reason.

/c drop pack sounds pretty good though.

really good idea

....why didn't I think about that =P...

It could still drop on Subdual mode, ExileStrife!

ExileStrife

JackOfSwords YES! YES! YESSSSS!! Oh, please, please, please, pretty please with Rebxn spicings on top, PLEASE implement this!!!

If this were a perfect world, that would be alright, but there are a lot of people that do not enjoy playing along, and a lot of people that don't want to simply fugue their opponent to get at their gear, for whatever reason.

/c drop pack sounds pretty good though.

So perhaps somehow make a seperate command for a character to forcefully take the pack of another unconscious character. Implement it into the PVP tool if possible.

This way if a player is being stubborn and doesn't want his own healing supplies used to save him and expects the party to fork it out, the mechanics allow for the obvious solution. In cases similar to the one you described. If a player wants to lend a beating to another without them wanting to loot a pack in the end (self defense mostly likely), they can spare their opponent the frustration of the inventory tetris.

Problem solved.

After being yelled at for "beating a man on the ground" in a simple attempt to make his bag drop, I fully support this suggestion.

Bump it up, bump that jam.

Vendayan-

That can already be accomplished by entering into sparring mode. It works like subdual but it does not cause another player to drop their pack.

I agree with this suggestion, and can actually see myself using it in several situations. Although, would it be possible to prevent gold from being dropped as well? (Seeing as how gold doesn't have weight and most likely wouldn't be in your pack.)

yeah gold is a different matter i think...

none of my charactors *reached into their pack and pulld out some coins* they all *reach into a pouch on his/hers belt/pocket, reached inside their armor or pulled it from a secret compartment somewhere*

Yes I'm back, not like I can play EFU due to my evil comp (thank god for a freind's computer). I like this idea actually. But it made me think maybe you could like knock off a guy's pack or something or take it off the body it's still attached to.

Like say for instance:

A: *reaches for pack* *pick pocket roll, faliure* B: Hey my pack! *attack* A: Kill! *kills player B, rips bag off* --- Similarly this could be implemented with sleeping charecters who would have decreased awareness of this. But a dead body would have nothing to do with this but his pack would still be attached unless a creature removes it or PC. D'yah get me?

Oh anyway that's my thoughts...Ta-ta, I'll return as soon as I can... :wink:

I think it wouldn't be a good idea to allow players to decide whether or not to drop their pack when they're subdued. Even though we should probably be all "We can be sure that people will be nice about it and RP properly" I think it's just not a good idea, eventually someone will turns up and decide not to do it, and then you've got a whole scandal on your hands and everything.

Okay, glad to see that this is getting some good discussion.

Back to my original idea (I'm actually not sure how dropping your pack works when you are being subdued).

I propose keeping all circumstances where you currently drop your pack unchanged. In addition, I want to be able to drop my pack when I want to. That's it. I don't think that people could abuse this; it would just provide the freedom to use it if you think that it is appropriate or helpful.

Which is a good idea. I'm unsure why people are diluting it.

Once again - top notch suggestion! I would still love to see this be implemented!

I also like this idea. Though for the new player it causes a problem if they are dying and they don't know about the /c drop pack command they're teammates might have to let them die....

Is there a way to make the dying person turn into a treasure chest kind of object....meaning you keep your items and quickslots, but others can access your inventory like a chest.

If this can't be done, mayb ehave a duplicate of the players pack appear next to them that has their items, but upon them getting back above 0 hp that duplicate vanishes.....this solution would require some sort of syncing between the duplicate pack and the actual one the person is carrying so that they don't get to keep the healing items that were used to revive them.

just an idea.....not sure if it's scriptable.

If you're dying, your pack drops automatically. As Erglion said, the suggestion wasn't to adjust the death/pack-drop system, only to make an addition to it, where people can drop their own packs/inventories of their own accord with the use of a simple command line.

From what I understand and recall, your pack becomes accessible as soon as you hit minus health.

First, the reason it is supported is because so many of us want a way around the inventory tetris. Secondly, regarding the new player who doesn't know the command, my suggestion of a command to allow players to forcefully take the packs of fallen PCs would serve well enough if the player doesn't know how to do it themself.

A command to forcefully drop a pack along with a command to forcefully take a pack from an unconscious PC solves the inventory tetris problem, allows party members to use a fellow's healing supplies to revive him, and allows for the convenience of instantly dropping an entire pack whenever it would be needed without any adverse effects that anyone has named or that I can think of. It simply avoids inventory tetris until either a nearby player or DM would decide that it's worth the hassle.

You don't need a command to take a pack from a fallen PC though, that is the point. If you beat them down to one of the levels past winded, their pack automatically drops.

I imagine the best of all worlds as follows:

1) A /c drop pack command is added, which drops a player's pack

2) Packs no longer would drop from NPC inflicted damage into negatives, until player is fugued.

3) One of the PvP subdual modes would force a pack to drop, for those that wish to rifle someone's belongings.

For those who argue, "I want to be able to grab healing from the fallen to help him out", simple: the player need only issue the command and his pack is dropped. (But see my next paragraph for my feelings about grabbing items during combat.) For those who argue, "I want to be able to steal his stuff while he is down", simple: knock him upside the head a round or two with a subdual mode... a realistic answer, as it SHOULD take time to remove a pack and begin opening up flaps, etc.

I've never been a big fan of someone grabbing things from someone else's pack during a fight for many reasons, not least of which is that access to items on the person's body is likely more difficult than the "1 round access" the engine allows. They're lying in an awkward position (maybe right on top of what you're looking for,) the stuff may be in containers, the person grabbing wouldn't necessarily know where to look, etc, etc, etc

Combine that with the Inventory Tetris problem, and it seems to me a no-brainer that a pack really shouldn't drop while a person is in the negatives. With the addition of a "drop pack" command, and a PvP mode available to force a pack drop, it would seem there's no good reason it would have to.

We're doing a good job of clouding a good, simple suggestion.

We're simply expanding on it. Arkov has already shown support for it. Some of us have simply seen a bit more potential with the command.

/c droppack is a perfect suggestion in itself as the OP offered it, but taking it a touch further and we can save a lot of frustration.

If a PC is unconscious (from normal or subdual damage) you simply hit him with the PvP tool somehow to get his pack. For RP purposes I think it's fine. If you have no reason to rifle through his pack and make him spend 5-10 minutes reorganizing it then you don't have to.

For some of us, just because we have a reason to beat a character down, doesn't mean we want to loot him, and it certainly shouldn't mean that we are only out to grief a player and cause him the extra frustration of inventory tetris just for the sake of it in those cases where we don't care to loot him.

It doesn't take long to fix a few quick slots.

If you hit the ground, you drop your bag. Its simple, its easy, and we know it works. Allowing someone the choice to drop it doesn't make any sense. It might be easier for those people so they don't have fix their quick slots. But gods man, you just about died. Its NOT suppose to be convenient.

Anyhow Ninelives is right, I'd love to see this added. The original -simple- suggestion. If you want to change the drop/bag we currently have, I'd say make a new suggestion for it.

And Sparring mode already allows you to beat someone down without them dropping their bag. (80% sure)

You can enter into Sparring Mode by typing "/c subdual spar" and another player will -never- drop their pack in PvP Mode. This is the command used when giving a proper beat down, but not wishing to rob a player, as well as the command used when "practicing" combat against someone else, as well as the command used when dueling in the Arena but not intending to kill the player.

I can agree with Jack that players shouldn't drop their packs from NPC's until they are Fugued. With the command "/c drop pack" a player can choose to make his or her pack available to other players. Although I do somewhat agree with Jack on his point about going through a pack of a fallen party member while in combat. (Even though I've been guilty of doing it. Dying on a random scripted quest sucks, and my main focus at that point is saving someone OOC grief.)

If a DM wishes to force a player to drop their pack as an NPC, all they have to do is send the player a tell, and if they refuse - then it's off to the Fugue!

It doesn't take long to fix a few quick slots.

I timed it the last several occassions I had to play inventory tetris. Going as fast as I could, to pick up all my items, re-organize them in my inventory pages and properly re-populate all of the 36 quickslots, it took an average of 2.5 minutes.

That translates into an hour or two game time, if I'm not mistaken, when it comes to the number of rounds lost. At best, spells wear off, and your party members begin to get irritated... at worst, you're facing a new enemy before you're ready to continue, you make mistakes and don't have things ready in your quickbar, or your party leaves you behind.

Actually, I think the ABSOLUTE WORST part of it is how much RP I lose while I'm re-organizing. Last DM quest I was on, I fell twice, and missed 2/3's of the dialogue. I didn't have the faintest clue after the first time I fell what we were even doing.

Maybe some of you don't put many items in your quickbar, or don't frequently use your inventory (perhaps just weapons, healing and a few token items.) That doesn't mean that others of us don't experience major headaches when inventory tetris comes around. Wouldn't you rather see a solution for your fellow players that suffer this, than boast how little you need a quickbar?

Okay, there seems to have been some good discussion.

Can we get some DM feedback on whether this may be implemented soon or not?

maybe both then, a drop gold and drop pack command.

anyways, im loving the general jist of this idea, its awesome. especially for the whole bandit/mugging or fleeing for life scenarios.

Totally, it also makes sense.

Soooooooo....

erglion Can we get some DM feedback on whether this may be implemented soon or not?

Perhaps 2 commands...

Dropping a pack /dpack - Drops the PC's pack. This works if the PC is unconscious or conscious.

Taking a pack /tpack - Forces the pack of the nearest unconscious/subdued PC to fall. This is done either to check his packs for healing equipment or to rob the player. This also sends a message out saying that a given player is rummaging through another character's pack.

From then on, no automatic scripts will ever force a pack to fall unless the player fugues. Unless it is still desirable to force packs to drop if a player dies from PvP.

It's arguable that packs should automatically drop when a player dies, but for all IC purposes we still assume it does anyway. It just doesn't unsecure it's own straps to spill it's contents all around the victim.

This way, everyone is happy. Characters who need to flee can drop their packs and run, muggers still get to claim what they want from a fallen player and players who get knocked to 0 and then healed after the fight aren't required to waste time reorganizing packs. We could even allow this to be used on players who are under a sleeping status effect. Though it'd be highly exploitable and likely not recommended.

Where do the DMs stand on this or any other suggestions made so far?

Vendayan Perhaps 2 commands...

Dropping a pack /dpack - Drops the PC's pack. This works if the PC is unconscious or conscious.

Taking a pack /tpack - Forces the pack of the nearest unconscious/subdued PC to fall. This is done either to check his packs for healing equipment or to rob the player. This also sends a message out saying that a given player is rummaging through another character's pack.

From then on, no automatic scripts will ever force a pack to fall unless the player fugues. Unless it is still desirable to force packs to drop if a player dies from PvP.

I don't think the "sending a message" is necessary as it already announces who's pack it is when someone opens it, and "thief" mode would work as per normal as to whether people observe you taking anything.

Other than that, this split solution gives us the best of both worlds I think. Freedom to drop pack when we please, and freedom to get into the pack of subdued players when desired, while reducing the amount of unnecessary inventory tetris and quickslotting dramatically.

Nice brainstorming work, folks. Expect to see something like this soon.

Nice brainstorming work, folks. Expect to see something like this soon.

Arkov, you ARE TRULY AWESOME! :D

I find it very frustrating when you drop to bleeding, for some reason all your gear gets put in a blender on high. It makes it hard in trickey situations, based on a purely OOC mechanic of dropping your pack. I'm not particularly fond of the spam click fast to pick up your stuff mid combat.

I'm sure some others could argue you drop it when you fall down, but it wouldn't be nearly as hard to pick up your pack, as it is because you have to pickup each item individually, and all your quickslots are wiped.