First of all, I looked up what I could find on trap detect DCs. There wasn't much out there, but from I can tell, it seems pretty straight-forward. Assuming there aren't any other variables, this is how it works.

Trap Detect DC = innate Detect DC + the trapper's Set Trap skill.

What does this mean in practical terms? Let's take a look at some common examples. We'll assume a rogue with +4 bonus from dexterity and no other bonuses, who will end up having (level + 7) for his Set Trap skill.

L1 - Level 1: 8. L5 - Level 5: 12. L10 - Level 10: 17.

Let's also look at a variety of traps and their innate Detect DCs.

MAST - Minor Acid Splash Trap (2d8): 15. DTT - Deadly Tangle Trap (5 rounds): 18. DET - Deadly Electric Trap (30d6, 5m): 22.

DCs to detect traps.

L1, MAST - 23. L5, DTT - 30. L10, DET - 39.

These are (roughly) the "toughest" traps the rogue can set at these levels, and we can assume this to be the "worst case scenario."

This means that a level 1 rogue's traps could be undetectable by characters with 3 search and under, a level 5 rogue's traps by characters with 10 and under, and a level 10 rogue's traps would be undetectable by those with 19 search and under.

Minimum requirements to detect, respectively, as we approach 10: 3, 10, 19. Compare this to our hypothetical rogue's own set trap skill at those points: 8, 12, 17. Level 1 seems alrght, level 5 somewhat iffy, (you can still detect the trap - barely - with less search than the rogue has in set traps) but at level 10 it's clearly whacky.

Ok! Now, thinking all of this through, there are a few options that come to mind, each with it's own drawbacks.

1. Completely scrap the system and put in your own trap tools etc. There is a link here: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=scripts.Detail&id=372 This would be the most customizable, but probably also the most work.

2. Adjust skills. If you can determine the DC for spotting you want rogues to be able to achieve, you can either put scripts in place to adjust rogue's Set Trap skills at various levels, or you can also use VersusTrapEffect(effect) to increase everyone's ability to search for traps by X amount. Both options would require scripts to make sure the effects aren't lost, and the second one would also require increasing the DC of traps on scripted quests to be close to player-set traps, so they aren't incredibly easy to find afterwards.

I think, though, an elegant but effective solution would be this, if it were possible:

3. Adjust the effect scripts for all traps (ie nw_t1_holydeadc for a deadly holy trap) so that player-set traps (checked with GetTrapCreator(object) - toolset traps return an object_invalid for the setter) give the target an additional chance to avoid the damage entirely, as well as to reduce the damage based on the amount of their search skill. (Or perhaps the difference between their search and the setter's set traps skill.)

Other interesting options there might be to make traps non-lethal (ie drop you to -1 by default), shift the emphasis on traps from damage to stunning, weaken the overall damage of the strong and deadly traps, which are already very powerful, etc.

Brain hurts. :o

Discuss. :D

Oh, also, that was me. :oops:

L1, MAST - 23. L5, DTT - 30. L10, DET - 39.

Add 20 to that, I believe.

I think custom traps would be cool, myself. If someone wants to investigate that and figure out how we could implement it, that'd be cool.

The situations above, are how they are SUPPOSED to work. However the engine doesn't work that way. It has been a bug since NWN came out, and they haven't seen it as a priority to fix it.

As Howland said, all of the trap DC's are much higher. That level 1 example will result in a trap with DC's in the 50's, and 10th level rogues end up with traps in the 70's or 80's pretty often. Basically, PC set traps are impossible to detect and disarm, which is why we discourage their use until a better method of handling them is figured out.

The trap scripts that are included in the link above, look like they are not well designed for a persistant world, due to a large number of invisible objects with heartbeat scripts. We are looking at trap options for a number of reasons, but just haven't found something suitable as of yet.

Are you discouraging trap setting only in pvp or is it cool to use against the AI? I ask because I am on the brink of creating a "trap smith".

Nevermind, I just found the policy.

Doing some testing, a character with 52 search was unable to detect an average tangle trap set by a character with about 7 set trap points.

According to the rulebook, the DC should have been 21. Add another 20 from the take 20 on the set trap roll, and you'd have 41 for the low level character and the medium trap. But it appears the DC is floating around somewhere above 72. Will look at it some more later, I've been told that boostings stats over a certain amount does funny stuff, so I may retest with +skill rings of various strengths and try to pin down the exact numbers.