Thought I'd test the water of the issue

I can't stand that crap. Ninety percent of the time, its just annoying to players who know the game well.

For players who are new to roleplaying, its just unnecessary crappage. Random newbies are already confused by // and * beginning sentences. Careful players who resort to languages are kind enough to {Dumb Talk} so you know they're speaking dumb talk, but more than the majority just go {d} and newbies have no idea what that is suppose to mean. Worse, it could be {devilish}, {dwarvish}, {dumb talk}, {draconic} or any number of other languages.

Whenever language is used via roleplaying, it just turns into a cluster fuck that annoys me and confuses newer players who feel excluded and intimidated by the arcane babble. It also causes annoying OOC fights "Your dwarf can't speak elven!" or "I was using theives' cant, your guard wouldn't know that!" because people randomly choose what languages they know and don't--others just assume they know all the languages, some stick to a system--and finally others just say "fuck all who cares? I understood that."

Having watched "language" systems be used in the past--its inelegant and often more hastle than its worth. Now if the system was utilized involving Listening devices and scripts--it would be a totally different story because then there is structure and it can be explained fairly quickly to new players that "gibberish" is foreign language and if they understand it then its a language they speak.

With the exception of a few critical moments where language *can* be a resourceful thing, I agree with Oroborous. It's just confusing, and two elves talking in an inn in elven is no different from two elves talking in an inn in whatever the default language in.

I spoke with Arkov a while ago. Evidently, with the innovative tell system we've got going on here, a language could work, eliminating most of the problems you've got there, Oro. (Obviously, new players would probably still end up getting confused.)

Some people overdo it indeed. I would like to kind of "restrict" language use to points where NO other means of communication seem possible. Good example: Negotiation with orogs when you have a half-orc in your party (assuming orogs speak orcish.. >.> ). It definitely -can- add to the game. Also : Written texts. Stop dodging on that issue already :P

Welp, I've posted somewhere which languages I picked so I'd most likely to keep using them (if there EVER was need, now) so try and sue me. :oops:

But really I haven't seen need for any of them in ages. I vote "sometimes".

I absolutely despise seeing dialog prefixed with a language.

That being said, if two players believe typing “[Aglarondan]” before their dialog enhances their roleplaying, they are free to do so. However, if another player chooses to ignore or react to what is being said around them, they are also free to do so.

A player who does choose to use language prefixes in their dialog, should have the courtesy to do so properly. For example, “[Dwarven]” and not “[d]” should be used to represent the Dwarven language. The last thing another player who is willing to roleplay along with this should have to do is spend time trying to figure out if the conversation is in Draconic, Dambrathan, Damarran, or Dwarven.

Most complaints I hear are minor things; Courteous things to keep in mind when you're using languages.

The only major argument that keeps returning is metagaming. And I wonder where people got the belief that others on this server would metagame them; I think it shows either a lack of faith in those around them, or they're horribly suspicious themself. This isn't CoA, people. We started EFU with the best roleplayers around, and we've got the chance to do it right for everyone. In these 29 days I have been playing EFU, I have never seen one case of bad roleplaying, metagaming, griefing, powergaming (me excluded, that is). This playerbase is so mature that I can actually cry somethimes out of pure happyness. I do not believe such 'metagaming' problems would arise any time soon.

And shame on you, a deep shame on you, for not trusting your friends in this server. Such a thing stabs me in the heart to know.

Oroborous

For players who are new to roleplaying, its just unnecessary crappage.

Coldburn, we're getting new players daily, the fact that we started off with a passworded server and a really good group of players does nothing to help those that are just starting to get into the server and maybe even into role-playing for the first time.

Everyone has to make a beginning sometime. Not even 2 weeks ago, I helped someone who possibly never roleplayed before, and he catched up with the best of them.

Same went for me, when I first came to CoA. I only ever played PW Action servers, and didn't even know what Roleplay was. After a week or two I cought on perfectly. I think everyone underestimates the value of good help. It real can aid.

Besides, I think throwing them into the deep is a good thing to do. Most find it interesting to see how it actually happens. We don't have a course for "Beginners Roleplay- Learning How to Roleplay with Baby-Steps". They'll have to learn either way. Besides, it immediatly shows who's fit for roleplay, and who isn't. One that shows time and dedication in interacting with other players, or the one that actually says he levels too slow on this server, and would rather start at level 20, because than he'll be more powerful.

But I think I'm getting off-topic. And congratulations on your Avatar, Robert.

RobertDeHauteville

Oroborous

For players who are new to roleplaying, its just unnecessary crappage.

Coldburn, we're getting new players daily, the fact that we started off with a passworded server and a really good group of players does nothing to help those that are just starting to get into the server and maybe even into role-playing for the first time.

I made my point clear in the other topic why people insist on trying to make the same point again in this topic I don't know.

I see it like this: The only reason to use languages is to exclude other people from the conversation. Hence:

Languages - Problem.

Whisper - Problem solved.

This may or may not help this discussion, but the server I once adminned had languages scripted into little token items. You would choose the items at character creation, based upon a dialogue, and the number of languages was based upon your INT modifier.

It used a system similar to the listener that EFU uses, and anything that was prefaced with <elven> or somesuch would come out clearly to anyone with the elven token, and anyone without it would just hear random garbage.

Dont know if its doable here, in fact I dont even know how it was done, one of my scripters did it.

Arkov?

Can be done, clunky, heavy on the server load, PITA, nasty scripts, not worth the time. Quests are much better time/output.

Yeah, I agree with Fish.

While it's a solution, it's still a lot of work for what is essentially a whisper.

I'm with others who say languages are unnecessary crappage and generally no more than an annoyance.

Keep in mind, this is from someone who completely understands languages, even understands that <e> will be Elven, etc. And, despite what the hell point you're trying to make Coldburn, it has nothing to do with trusting my fellow neighbor. It's as simple as this, without trying to be politically correct at all: its pointless and annoying. Unless its scripted in, its kind of like emoting "*stabs you in the back*" and assuming someone will actually play along. Sure, if youre in some quiet corner and you want to pretend with someone that youre speaking that language, its fine, just like you can roleplay stabbing someone if you planned it ahead of time. However, general use of it is just sort of silly, and Lord knows its annoying to see stuff prefixed with <Blahblahblah>.

Not to mention, it actually detracts from my experience when I dont know Elven, because I refuse to "not know" what you're saying, and yet I somehow have to justify knowing it. So, I just have to pretend you're not talking in Elven. Hence, annoyance.

Coldburn, I really cant stress how wrong you are with that one. I would be annoyed (Although I might not say so...) if an NPC started talking in <elven>, even though I knew it was a DM. I guess its just a sample of something that clutters a system without adding to it.

:oops:

I'm quite alright with people who refuse to use it themself, but let the people that wish to use, use it.

Anyone in their right mind, both OOC and IC, won't go blabbering in the Rock Bottom how they are planning in Dwarven, how they are going to assassinate the Council and open the gates for the Illithid to come in. Like you said, don't pick the crowded spots, pick the abandoned spots.

But don't deny us this oppertunity to roleplay, just because you don't like it. That's the general point.

And just to make myself clear and not sound like a complete asshole, I'm okay with people using it, I just dont personally like it. I wont think any less of someone who does this, I'd just really, really prefer they didnt! But forcing someone to roleplay a certain way is something I've always scorned, so I wont do it here. Play the game to its maximum fun factor, just try to think about the consideration of others.

Thanks -- I hope everyone else feels this way too.

I think it's a great way to show others a little insight into your character. But I only ever use it to do just that, not to have extended conversations. A greeting here, a quick phrase there, just to show that my character knows that language, a give other PCs a nice little starting point to find out more about them if they wish.

Think about in The Lord Of The Rings when Aragorn speaks to the elves in their own language. That's when you start to realize there may be much more to this Strider character than there appeared at first. Languages can be used sparingly to hint at a character's past and that's an important roleplay tool. If you don't like it, ignore it. There are plenty of things other players do that break my immersion much more. I either accept them or ignore them, but wouldn't dream of telling the players to stop.

Anonymous I think it's a great way to show others a little insight into your character. But I only ever use it to do just that, not to have extended conversations. A greeting here, a quick phrase there, just to show that my character knows that language, a give other PCs a nice little starting point to find out more about them if they wish.

Think about in The Lord Of The Rings when Aragorn speaks to the elves in their own language. That's when you start to realize there may be much more to this Strider character than there appeared at first. Languages can be used sparingly to hint at a character's past and that's an important roleplay tool. If you don't like it, ignore it. There are plenty of things other players do that break my immersion much more. I either accept them or ignore them, but wouldn't dream of telling the players to stop.

Besides, in Helm's Deep, all the people didn't metagame knowing Elven, when Aragorn and Legolas were conversing in Elven. Until Aragorn was stupid enough to forgot to put [e] in front of his text. Silly him.