Lots of pc´s like walking arround town with a quaterstaff pretending its a walking stick but ofcourse it isnt. Wuldnt it be possible to make a "walking stick" you culd buy from Norma or something? just use the looks of the necromancers staff and then make the staff do no damedge at all?

It is. Someone has one even.

The only concern I have is that its really hard to tell the difference between a quarterstaff and a walking stick. Most people don't even bother to emote that its a walking stick until you move to question them about it--then suddenly they hobble, limp, or drag their one lame leg around and yell that their six foot long wooden staff with iron shod ends isn't really a weapon.

the walking stick could have a distinctive shape i.e. the crooked staff item. Since most walking sticks would probably be from a tree and not formally shaped into nice looking staff.

Wood is expansive isn't it? Should be costy...

We can use the wood from Rock Bottom XD

We use zurkhwood, a fungal substitute for wood. It is approximately as cheap as wood is on the surface. REAL wood, on the other hand, would be extraordinarily expensive, even though zurkhwood is functionally identical.

It's all in the style of the thing. Real wood is much more of a status symbol, rather than a medium for craftsmanship, due to its incredible rarity in the Underdark. Some sort of walking stick available for common use would be a good idea, though.

Honestly though, I think walking sticks are all very Fruedian and unnecessary. If you're character is such a gimp he can't walk without a stick, why on earth is he off fighting trolls, zombies, drow?

Canes/staves that serve no combative purpose don't have be used by non-combative people only.

• A character could have gotten into an accident recently and needs a little extra help getting around for a while. Or, they might exaggerate their weariness. Varlam Nikitovich was perfectly healthy, but he'd slump against his staff, breathe heavy, etc., if he wanted to be perceived as less of a threat than he could be.
• A character could just like having something to rest on when he's doing a lot of walking. I bring a staff to the Renaissance Faire not because I'm in costume or need the support, but it's a nice thing to have when a performance's benches are full and you stay to see an hour-long show.
• If the walking stick is finely crafted or even made from surface wood, it would be a status symbol like mentioned above. Alexander Archibald walked around Sanctuary with his glowing staff of <destructive or evil power here> and guards never stopped him, to my knowledge.

But, the second point above is only really valid in a peaceful, surface setting where people can walk around the wilderness without having their weapons ready at all times I guess.

Something to think about!

I would consider giving these to people who perhaps lose a leg in a tragic accident...

* Alexander Archibald walked around Sanctuary with his glowing staff of <destructive or evil power here> and guards never stopped him, to my knowledge.

Never for the stave, no. The glowing Rapier raised a few objections though!

ASBay Canes/staves that serve no combative purpose don't have be used by non-combative people only.

• A character could have gotten into an accident recently and needs a little extra help getting around for a while. Or, they might exaggerate their weariness. Varlam Nikitovich was perfectly healthy, but he'd slump against his staff, breathe heavy, etc., if he wanted to be perceived as less of a threat than he could be.
• A character could just like having something to rest on when he's doing a lot of walking. I bring a staff to the Renaissance Faire not because I'm in costume or need the support, but it's a nice thing to have when a performance's benches are full and you stay to see an hour-long show.
• If the walking stick is finely crafted or even made from surface wood, it would be a status symbol like mentioned above. Alexander Archibald walked around Sanctuary with his glowing staff of <destructive or evil power here> and guards never stopped him, to my knowledge.

But, the second point above is only really valid in a peaceful, surface setting where people can walk around the wilderness without having their weapons ready at all times I guess.

Something to think about!

Yes but that's Ren Faire where you don't expect benches. If you walked through downtown Manhatten, the cops may say something.

Also its Ren Faire where a guy with a stick is a guy with a stick. He will not ever be a guy with a stick that is also called Staff of the Magi AKA handy launcher of fiery death at anyone who pisses him off.

I mean, I did think about the other possibilities--but the big issue is you can tell if a stick is for walking or if its for weaponry or artillery in the case of magic staves. There isn't a real good way to 'see' the difference in game.

Oroborous Honestly though, I think walking sticks are all very Fruedian and unnecessary. If you're character is such a gimp he can't walk without a stick, why on earth is he off fighting trolls, zombies, drow?

Not that all characters follow this example, but Michael used a staff for support because he was generally frail and weak but not a gimp or anything. Of course, he never fought with it either.

In general, I don't think its too tough on a a PC to tell the difference between someone who is using a staff as a walking assistant or as a weapon. Just feel out the character a bit. I think these kind of accessories add to the atmosphere rather then retract from it. Just my two cents!

I created my character specifically with the idea in mind that he would be a cripple. To that end I gave him minimal physical stats, don't let him use armor, emote whenever possible (and whenever I manage to remember), and have him carry a walking stick. I think it adds flavor to the character and I enjoy playing him.

I rather like a genuinely flawed character, makes a refreshing change from the usual uber leet characters found in most other situations, with their +3 - +5 everything, min/maxed stats, and flawless combination of skills, powers and suchlike giving them maybe 1-3 "moves" they can perform to wtfpwn anything they run across.

Honestly though, I think walking sticks are all very Fruedian and unnecessary. If you're character is such a gimp he can't walk without a stick, why on earth is he off fighting trolls, zombies, drow?

This character actually does very little fighting, and most of that is with a crossbow, something that only requires the strength to lift, aim, and turn a crank on the side to reload. His main purpose is as a healer, and as a follower of Ilmater "gimping" around the underdark helping others while putting himself at great personal risk is exactly the thing to do.

Mainly I wish there was a better animation for using a walking stick. As it is now it is just carried like a normal staff and doesn't look right. But I suppose implimenting such would require the use of hakpaks. So not very likely. No biggie though.

I really think to define whether the staff is deadly or not is really up to the guards. I liked the way I got handled with my staff handling inside the sanctuary. The character wasn't too much in need of that staff, merely naive way to point out his wizard background. However, the problem is that there isn't a staff which looks like just old grumpy wooden blank or just blunt and worn stick.

And to point out, that you can't see the metal ends or tops in the animation mode too easily than in your item inventory. Also, funny to find out, that this zukrhwood staff I now have has +1 bludgeoning damage and the other Arcanist Questerstaff wit metal ends was just simply +1 spellcraft. So, maybe there should be more to show than the animation effects. If we put up like -2 to attack rolls, -2 damage to a staff called walking staff and it's shaped nicely, I wouldn't mind it. Still, I think it's kind of useless and guards deine what is what and what kind of items they allow in their territory. I myself still think a half-orc in spiky full-plate is much more deadlier with his tackle attack than a thin wizard with a stick.

SanTelmo So, maybe there should be more to show than the animation effects. If we put up like -2 to attack rolls, -2 damage to a staff called walking staff and it's shaped nicely, I wouldn't mind it.

If you really want to be a cripple, point it out in the description (and not just, "has a slight limp" or, "leans a little to the left when he walks"). And for your own sake, don't hide it in the middle of a 2 page long description, make it quick and easy to find. Many don't have the time to respond ICly to an essay long description they haven't read before.

My first character here had a rather hefty limp, and as such, he was given an actual speed decrease, to reflect the fact that the poor bugger couldn't run for the life of him, and had to make a real effort of moving at "normal" speed. Now, in terms of realism, a person like this is obviously going to have a staff, or crutch, or what have you to support his bad leg. As a result I did have a quarterstaff (the plain, wooden kind), and frequently emoted various things indicating I was leaning on it for support. As for his ability to fight, he was a wizard, so he still blasted stuff up a'plenty when situations arose. Most people, when they saw the speed decrease and the emotes, didn't raise the weapon question, but the ones that did created interesting situations where I had to convince them to leave me be (which were often very fun to play out, and more often than not were settled with an argument along the lines of "Why below earth would I bonk you in the head with a stick when I instead, and with rather less effort, could plant a fireball in your nether regions and watch it crackle?").

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really see "walking sticks" as a problem, as long as they really are accompanied by an effort in terms of plausible emotes and good reasons. If they're just carried around at a normal trot, shod with metal and spikes, and no indication of a weakness warranting them, on the other hand, I'd not blame anyone for accusing you.

Out of curiosity, though - what is it that makes a quarterstaff held in your hand so much more of a threat than a greatsword slung across your back, or a battleaxe hanging from your belt? Both the latter can be drawn in seconds, and produce far more damage than a plain wooden pole. Not to mention people who carry around wooden poles are likely much wimpier than your average greatsword wielder. (If a peace knot law has been added while I've been gone, please disregard this last paragraph.)

Wrexsoul

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really see "walking sticks" as a problem, as long as they really are accompanied by an effort in terms of plausible emotes and good reasons. If they're just carried around at a normal trot, shod with metal and spikes, and no indication of a weakness warranting them, on the other hand, I'd not blame anyone for accusing you.

What I really am pointing out is this. The need for the special staff was just that we seem to have battlestaff with metal, battlestaff without metals, battlestaff with nice sharp edges... If we just had an item which is clearly a piece of wood or something, nothing special, people could roleplay it out. Of course, we can still roleplay this whenever we want without even a specific staff but we should be offered staffs too, not just quarterstaffs in the means of weapon. I hope you get what I mean. Need for a simple, plain staff!

If you want to carry it, use it, stumble with it, lean on it, then it's totally up to you and what kind of character you are playing and a lot more. If the guy doesn't emote anything to indicate why he should wear/why he wears staff, I'm quite sure it's his fault then if he gets fined for that or otherwhise denied the acces for the staff in public area. However, if there isn't possible to get access but to nicely shaped battlestaffs, it's quite the same what you explain as it's taken 'deadly weapon'. Even if you are a crumbly old man with the muscles around the size of a peanut.

Really, there isn't maybe too much need for this but wouldn't be a useless to add. I'm sure that if it looks like a simple stick, it isn't a problem if you know how to emote.

What is getting me confused, why the need for the staff at all?

If you have a walking stick, just go *leans on his walking stick* or *walks comfortably with a zhurhkwood staff for support* or just emote anything you want instead of walking around with a weapon like item out.

The thing for the Watch is its just like in the real world past, if you walk down the street with a gun holstered in your belt in Tombstone, AZ no one would say a word. If you walk down the street with your gun drawn, they'd shoot you because the assumption is you're looking for trouble. The Watch is going to stop anyone who is looking for trouble because they don't want trouble. I also remember Wrexsoul's guy with the limp. My Spellguard Agent never ever bothered him about his staff because he really did need the thing for support unlike 99% of the PCs walking about with a stick over their shoulders chatting in the markets or in front of Townhall.

Walking Staff isn't a weapon. Yes, it can be a weapon just like a book, or rock or whatever. Staff was probably designed to help people with their travelling, indeed, many had them to help them travel long ways. It's more different than a longsword. But if a guy just walks around with a battlestaff on his shoulder, yeh, pwn him and fine but I'm just saying that it could be nice to add just a simple staff, without metal things or whatever.

We have the weapon model, so if people don't emote they are using their staff for something, it's their problem if they get fined but I think it's useless to emote if you have a metallic club on your shoulder which you just use to 'support' yourself.

Not asking any special rules for staff users, merely asking why there can't be a staff which is normal.

I agree with someone earliers comment that anyone who needs a walking stick should not be adventuring. With the exception of mages, and even then what if they need both hands to cast?

Basically I say we should get rid of the whole 'walking stick' idea in general unless someone is going to play Gerald in the future.

What about a crippled priest? He needs words mainly to cast his blessings, not to dance like an acrobat...

Have you seen the priest of the Ori of in Stargate? Something like that.

alogen What about a crippled priest? He needs words mainly to cast his blessings, not to dance like an acrobat...

Have you seen the priest of the Ori of in Stargate? Something like that.

Send an application to the DMs to play a cripple. Wrexsoul played something like that already; a guy who couldn't walk around without a staff to help support him. With his character, he really needed the staff out to walk.

Unlike the vast majority who claim there staff is a walking stick.

You don't have to be a cripple, or old, or frail to want to use a walking stick/staff. You just want to have to convey that image for whatever reason.

I had a fairly powerful Wizard who would act like a frail old man and hobble with a walking stick but was actually seriously kickass. Acting senile, frail, weak and so forth is the oldest Wizard's trick in the book, really. Thumb through any sourcebook and you're bound to find a Wizard that does the old man act when really he's badass.

Alright, that's a cool trick. Yet I'll bet you emoted the *bluff* constantly and likely had *bluff* skill points to back it up. Again, that is pretty legit I think.

I'm not refering to characters that make the need to carry a staff look "legit" through bluffing and carrying something that could realistically look like it is a humble walking stick and not a battle ready weapon, or through actually getting the DMs to cripple his character.

Oroborous, I will concede that a walking stick should have a distinct look, it should obviously not appear to be a quarterstaff. But throwing the concept out entirely unless your missing legs is a bit much. It's just one of those things that adds flavor to a character.

It should be easy to distinguish between a old man using a cane or a mage holding a focus (in the form of a staff) or some nutcase waving a real quarterstaff around. I was given a staff with a crooked end by a DM and it's quite obvious at a glance that it's not a normal quarterstaff.

If I were to recommend anything it would be for such staves to be added to a Sanctuary vendor somewhere. Just today another character with a similar concept wanted to know where he could find a staff like mine. I told him I was lobbying for it to be added to a merchant. So let's add it.

We could have most of the quarterstaves off the streets by the end of the week :D

This arguement is interesting... Im not exactly sure what the two or three sides are but wouldnt it be easier to just keep the quarterstaff packed away and emote that it is being used for walking stick purposes?

Also. It is automatically assumed that all weapons are holestered or in bags or visable in some way, unlike a staff where it is 6 to 8 feet long and not likely to sit in any holester well and most difinitily not any pack so wouldnt it be more likely that one would hold the staff in hand rather than on back?

I always thought when I had more than one weapon it would be good to emote it when passing or entering a convo and expressing that one is well armed. Its true that metal tipped staffs are a bit threatening and looked at but given the fact that the town is in the middle of underwhere 8 miles below the serface and surrounded by hostilities more than any other place around I would think that even with the metal tips a quarater staff would look pretty weak and harmless...

Though what do I know? I cant keep on topic long enough to hold a position and my spelling detracts too much from the main point, even if there was one

Frankly this is part of a greater problem for me, which is where the hell do you put your quarterstaff (2-axe, halberd etc etc). Do you cut it in half and shove it in a sack? Or are all underdark axes inspired by James Bond, and fold away into the lining of your lapel? Its silly. Moreover, this is a city surrounded by dangers, and people would be carrying large weapons into and out of Sanctuary all the time. Until such time as everyone gets persistent storage, I think the guard rule about "putting away" two handed weapons is just lame and it breaks my suspension of disbelief every time.

This isn’t Arizona. Arizona isn’t at war. A better analogy is telling a solider in an occupied town to put his rifle away. A) where is he going to put it, and B) why in gods name would he, he needs it!

It seems pretty out of character for the guards as well. Who are generally alone and not so strong, to walk up to the heavily armed party that just killed a scrillion ettercaps that threatened the city, and "warn" them about their weapons. Firstly it would take real stones, and secondly he would want those weapons around in case the lizardmen/drow/ogres/giants/orogs/goblins/beholders /illithid/spiders/etc/etc attack the city again.

I know this is something of a segue, but I thought Id bring it up anyway.

The fact that there are people in this world setting that can snuff other peoples life with a single spell, might move staff carrying a little lower on the care factor of people in the watch than the security guard in the local mall.

Its still a case where most PCs are not soldiers. They are a crazed lot of unpredictable adventurers. They're not home owners, they're not exactly upstanding citizens for the most part. They're not standing with their weapons on the city walls and they're not conducting regular armed patrols.

So the soldier analogy doesn't convince me at all.

Plus, you can just take a staff and strap it to your back. Because you can't 'check your weapons' by the door like you'ld have to in the real world. I could easily see the Crone the kind of establishment that makes you disarm before you walk in. The city streets may want you to keep your weapons away just so you're less liable to use them: and this is important to consider--if the Watch sees someone with a weapon drawn they know to head there because there is going to be trouble; possibly a fight between people with the current system they use in game. If everyone can carry a weapon, its a little harder to use this kind of pre-emption.

Okay, I want to take this way off topic. So go here if you are interested in following my segue elsewhere: https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/17/17766/sociology-of-sanctuary/index.html#post-70280

scrappayeti Okay, I want to take this way off topic. So go here if you are interested in following my segue elsewhere: https://efupw.com/efu1-forum/topic/17/17766/sociology-of-sanctuary/index.html#post-70280]

I challenge you to find a historical picture of a community where people walked around with halberds and battle staves in the first place and weren't asked to either check them at the city gates, leave them in their inn rooms, or otherwise find a way to walk around and not look like a potential armed threat for whatever local peacekeeping force exists.

Oroborous

I challenge you to find a historical picture of a community where people walked around with halberds and battle staves in the first place and weren't asked to either check them at the city gates, leave them in their inn rooms, or otherwise find a way to walk around and not look like a potential armed threat for whatever local peacekeeping force exists.

I accept.

How about this: http://faculty.washington.edu/bcasserl/pnw/celilo.bmp

And this: http://academic.reed.edu/humanities/Hum210/syllabi_archives/fall04/week11/originals/4996.jpg

And this: http://www.jaha.org/edu/discovery_center/push-pull/img/oldcountry_album/images/peasants-russia.jpg

And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bundesschwur_Zuerich.jpg

And this: http://www.villageantiques.ch/prints/lory/lorygirls2det.jpg

And this: http://www.villageantiques.ch/prints/berngirl2.jpg

Something from more modern times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kstovo-hay-1536.jpg

This one is interesting too: http://www.thearma.org/arttalk/mjb4copy.jpg

But here's one that's very telling: http://www.thearma.org/arttalk/miningpanorama1400s.JPG

It comes from a site called http://www.thearma.org, great place to find medievil art depicting weapons and battles. Here's what they have to say about that last piece:

A close up portion of a unique German mining panorama of the mid 1400’s from Das Mittelaterliche Hausbuch ("The Medical Housebook") by an anonymous artist. This Tolkienesque watercolor depiction is rather interesting. These scuffling individuals are clearly in civilian garb. They may be villagers, bandits, travelers or guards. Note the arm lock and leg trip by the dagger armed figure! Note the reaching for a rock by the left side figure. On the far right an upper class looks on seemingly un-perturbed. Note closely the raised long sword, this unique weapon clearly has one single edge with a "double clipped" false-edge. It also has a beaked pommel. It may be a rare "great back sword" or a form of Grossmesser ("great knife").The other sword carrying figure on the right seems to have a similarly hilted blade. The back spine is visible as is a single or double fuller. Note also the classic fighting postures of both swordsmen.

Your move :D

My challenge still stands actually.

Those pictures all failed on one of two conditions:

The people in them were clearly peasants with either tools clearly used for farm work or walking sticks and not halberds or battle staffs.

The pictures of men with halberds were all pretty clearly of either soldiers or bandits.

Because while

They may be villagers, bandits, travelers or guards.

Damned good try, but I wasn't convinced. I still want to see a historical picture or hear of a historical situation where a community let people walk around armed with halberds and battle staffs in the first place and weren't asked to either check them at the city gates, leave them in their inn rooms, or otherwise find a way to walk around and not look like a potential armed threat for whatever local peacekeeping force exists.

Damnit Oro! Don't your fingers ever get tired?! :P

I knew the instant I hit the submit button that I was going to get back a list of justifications for every single one of them, what can I say, I must be a glutton for punishment. :lol:

If you're dead set on clinging to that position with all the tenacity of a rabid pitbull with a tender buttock in his jaw then who am I to try and dissuade you from it? Have fun, I'll be in the bar drinking heavily if anyone needs me. :wink:

*seconds the motion*

The real question is-- Why carry around a staff at all?

A staff is not a weapon. That is why the monks in China carried them around, and learned to use them as weapons.

Kama's are farm implements. Weapons were outlawed in China, so the monks and the farmers found ways to turn their tools into weapons.

Last and final point. A monk can do much more damage with their bare hands than with a staff. If the Watch truly feels threatened by some people walking around with sticks, then they should carry bigger swords or something. Frankly, I would much rather have a person come after me with a stick than to hit me with their hands. They are much more likely to hurt themselves than me with that two meter peice of firewood.

Quit complaining, Make a decision, and Have it posted.

"We don't like people who have wood!"

:P

I vote that people that need walking sticks in order to walk around should be executed immediately, since they are obviously drains on our resources. A survivalist town can't afford to support cripples.

Indeed! Seconded. People who need walking sticks are a drain and therefore a threat to Sacnturary, a captial crime! Let the stoneings commence!

I think its up to the Watchers in game to determine how to respond to the topic at hand. If the Watcher character doesnt like your PCs face he'll probably get one excuse or another to make said PC life miserable. Its not like "no quarterstaffs" would be the only abusive measure of law in this city, just ask the Stouts. :P

"Welcome to Sanctuary. Shove your staff wherever you please, just dont bear it out or we'll do it for you."