Languages, there's such an awful lot on Faerûn (where does the accent go.. >.< ), now each server PW I've been on seems to handle it differently, so I'd like to have a little clarification about how it is done here, lest I accidentally abuse things or somesuch.. Seeing there is no script for that I automatically applied the rules I was used to which state one may know their native language + maybe the one that is "common" on the PW (Undercommon in this case, yes?) plus as many additional ones as the character's intelligence modifier.

Soo in my case..

For the record, I decided on the languages at character creation and do not just switch them around as I see fit.. My native tongue (+0 Int modifier = Mulhorandi), additional languages for a +2 modifier = Draconic (+1 modifier) and De'sineth (+2 modifier) and bad Undercommon for only starting out with 15 intelligence (so basically +2.5), now that it turned 16 (+3) I properly learnt to speak it, would that work?

I see that languages are so to say, "not supported" so I don't use them to conceal from others what I try to say (since they could claim to speak the language without acually doing so anyway), but in case I come across a situation where it would be fortunate to speak this language might I assume I know these (since they make sense character-background story wise too) ?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Misread.

Why do you need other language, if everyone understands you?

You are actually right I suppose, there's just no controlling that, it's what differs the bad from the good roleplayers sometimes for me (No offense intended, duh), I just was thinking of situations where DMs are involved, for instance one possessing a dragon and lets them speak in draconic, or if I come across a text written in dwarven runes..

The player to player interaction is usually quite chaotic when languages get involved, true that..

The only real way to be sure is to just type some sort of gibberish or whatnot and send in tells to others what you meant to say if they can convince you they know the language xD

I think, that if you meet dragon, you'd more likely speak common with it than their language. But this is also a place where we see who is a good role player and who is not. One with high intelligent may be a good speaker, so he can speak with other ways. The language doesn't make you suitable to speak with someone. It is the way you speak, atleast that's what I think.

I had situations (another server) where a dragon was more likely to not just scorch you when you answered her in her own language.

It makes you start thinking about such things.

And there's still the issue of written languages. They don't just change because you speak flourished common to them.

I don't mind people using canon langauges personally but what I hate and would totally ruin the atomosphere is all that "*language* Blah blah blah"! But maybe thats just me.

Naga I don't mind people using canon langauges personally but what I hate and would totally ruin the atomosphere is all that "*language* Blah blah blah"! But maybe thats just me.

I like it when more languages are used. It feels awkward for two Sun Elves to chatter away in the inferior "Common tongue". I believe people should be encouraged to speak other languages more often.

Paha Poika I think, that if you meet dragon, you'd more likely speak common with it than their language.

I agree with Linelle, that you invoke more status when talking in a Dragon's native tongue. It shows you obviously deem the Draconic language, and thus Dragons, important enough to master their tongue. Don't forget that Dragons are one of the Creator Races, and they take fierce pride in their Dragoness.

Linelle You are actually right I suppose, there's just no controlling that, it's what differs the bad from the good roleplayers sometimes for me

Linelle Seeing there is no script for that I automatically applied the rules I was used to which state one may know their native language + maybe the one that is "common" on the PW (Undercommon in this case, yes?) plus as many additional ones as the character's intelligence modifier.

I believe this is how it works. But you have to have had education, or contact in any other way with a learned language. You can't just say: "Oh yes, my INT just got beefed by that Fox' Cunning. Today I know... How to speak Ignan and Daemonic!" So in your case with 15 INT = Bad Undercommon, 16 INT = Good Undercommon sounds good to me.

Please try to remember as well, that most inhabitants of Sanctuary are escaped slaves, who have not been educated in Undercommon yet. Surfacers mostly only know Common.

On a sidenote, Common is an universal trade-language. Feelings and thoughts can't be properly explained with it. Common lacks words for those. Dwarven, Elven etcetera do know how to show these feelings, as do regionally developed languages, such as Cormyran and Mulhorandi.

Off course, there are always some things I said wrong and I'm sure people will point them out -- Try me!

I agree with you Naga. Somehow I just don't like the thing that someone would always do: *language* bla bla bla..

It just somehow takes the whole feeling from me. In some situations it works, better than well, but in normal day use it would get on my nervs. It might be because I'm not used to it. Perhaps it could work with time, I don't know.

And for the dragon language, it feels weard to me that, no matter how great wizard or what so ever you are, it shouldn't be that easy just to learn their language. Like said, they are one of the creator races and it should be bloody hell to just add it on your characters head, just because he has high int and lore.

They are damn lvl 1, so they shouldn't even possibly be able to learn that kind skills. I would believe that a mighty and old wizard could know some, if at all.

Paha Poika And for the dragon language, it feels weard to me that, no matter how great wizard or what so ever you are, it shouldn't be that easy just to learn their language. Like said, they are one of the creator races and it should be bloody hell to just add it on your characters head, just because he has high int and lore.

They are damn lvl 1, so they shouldn't even possibly be able to learn that kind skills. I would believe that a mighty and old wizard could know some, if at all.

Hence, Creator Races; They are one of the 5 (I think) races that shaped and molded Toril to what it is now. They have lived from the beginning until now. Draconic is a very widely used language (Kobolds speak Draconic, and everyone knows they aren't the smartest around). There's Draconic to be found everywhere. And if I am not mistaken, Sorcerers often incantate their spells in Draconic as well.

Personally, I love language use if it is done logically. I think you stick to the class/race supported languages and choose from your int scores on character creation. Simple.

However, give backstory to the languages you know. There are a number of ways a halfing could learn how to speak elvish and none of them are because my int score has a positive modifier. Also, don't be afraid to choose a "worthless" langauge if it makes sense to do so.

Reading a bit about dragons, I found a passage that mentions a human who approaches a dragon who does not kill him on sight because he speaks to him in draconic, which makes the dragon curious. I don't expect every dragon would react this way, but I think leaving the possiblity open is worthwhile.

I am personally completely against languages, as it falls under infinate lore and other such ideals. Unfortunately there/'s nothing stopping you using languages but to be honest I think they're silly, and also for new players, offputting to learn any/all rules behind each language. Technically, I think I know seven languages, but I don't want to arse around remembering or working out which ones I know, or changing them where I see fit. But then again there's nothing stopping me doing so, on the same note though I could know all canon info on FR or on all the deities, with no points in lore. It falls into the same category of sillyness.

Languages are not supported, you all speak English.

For now. <_<

What's a gurb?

The use of languages can be an excellent tool for roleplay, and one that requires no scripting at all. It fits well into the setting of the Forgotten Realms, and in particular in a town where the inhabitants hail from all parts of the world. True enough, it's an unenforceable element of the game, but that does not mean it's a negative one. In the same way that people should behave maturely and not "know" all the canon FR lore, they can also behave maturely and "know" only the set of languages they initially decided upon. Those who don't want to start meddling with languages hardly have to. In the end, it comes to grown up behaviour, which hasn't seemed a problem to me so far on this server.

Coldburn

Naga I don't mind people using canon langauges personally but what I hate and would totally ruin the atomosphere is all that "*language* Blah blah blah"! But maybe thats just me.

I like it when more languages are used. It feels awkward for two Sun Elves to chatter away in the inferior "Common tongue". I believe people should be encouraged to speak other languages more often.

I#m prety sure ther'e a documented elven language if you wanted to do that. My point it that style of talking usualy leads to "*language* That dwarf standing in front of me is such an ass don't you agree?"

Although I do remember having anice time with a character who got extremly aggressive to anyone who spoke any othe rlanguage but common around him as he automatically deemed it an insult.

Naga I#m prety sure ther'e a documented elven language if you wanted to do that. My point it that style of talking usualy leads to "*language* That dwarf standing in front of me is such an ass don't you agree?"

Although I do remember having anice time with a character who got extremly aggressive to anyone who spoke any othe rlanguage but common around him as he automatically deemed it an insult.

You may analyse it like that but in my own personal experience when people start using the languages in the *langauge* way there tends to be a good portion who use it in that context. As I stated before If they want to use the actual language (I know there's one for dwarven anyway) I'd be happy but otherwise I think it would lead to trouble.

Naga You may analyse it like that but in my own personal experience when people start using the languages in the *langauge* way there tends to be a good portion who use it in that context. As I stated before If they want to use the actual language (I know there's one for dwarven anyway) I'd be happy but otherwise I think it would lead to trouble.

Rhe reason its not supported is due to the fact that those who would use it immaturly ruin it for everyone. Both those who have to read the text and those other who use it nicely. Although thats just my opinion.

Naga Rhe reason its not supported is due to the fact that those who would use it immaturly ruin it for everyone. Both those who have to read the text and those other who use it nicely. Although thats just my opinion.

And then comes the situation

[gnome to gnome] *gnome* I'm going to kill dave

[dave hears]

"What? what for?"

[gnome] You didnt understand us

[gnome] [tell] Metagamer!

[dave] *gnome* I speak gnome

[gnome ignores statement]

[gnome] [tell] no you dont!

I can see this coming from a mile off, and on a side note, its easy to meta someone saying something you shouldnt understand, since its all in english as is anyway, and you cant help muh against something you've already read. I'm still against this topic.

Sigh, I did not try to get the language rules to use it in some sort of inner circle so we can stay among ourselves and insult others without them being able to do a thing. I would hate that too.

What I -did- do, was, when I could not speak proper undercommon I would sometimes properly rephrase my lines in <Mulhorandi> when the other players were totally at loss, in hope to be understood. I was surprised how many character spoke the language, but at least they could make something of my wierd way of speaking. Having eliminated this character trait by upping my intelligence AS WELL AS having had formal language lessons in game by another character, I basically don't need to care so much about the use of languages.. just, having some rules would be nice since .. it makes no sense to just play pretend there are no other languages around.

I'm pointing again to the issues of texts that are written in foreign languages.. Just throwing lore checks is a bit.. cheap.

(And I was told draconic is not unusual for a wizard to learn.. isn't it also some sort of magic language? Buh..)

As for the post above, yea I would have expected something like that too when I learnt about those language rules on other servers but I never ever had anyone being that immature :)

Just don't rely on the "secrecy" of languages, or whisper at least.. It adds nicely to gameplay unless players overdo it.

There is a script set that involves using an item and then typing text to activate the script which will translate your words to a language which you specify through what tag you use. However the only one to my knowledge is DMFI and that one involve spamming dm channel with text.

Naga There is a script set that involves using an item and then typing text to activate the script which will translate your words to a language which you specify through what tag you use. However the only one to my knowledge is DMFI and that one involve spamming dm channel with text.

It is possible to click on your own avatar icon in the conversation bar and send yourself a tell. Perhaps the script could be modified so that you use the tool to set your language and instead of scanning the DM channel for it, it checks for tells sent to one's self and then "translates" those?

Fish And then comes the situation

[gnome to gnome] *gnome* I'm going to kill dave

[dave hears]

"What? what for?"

[gnome] You didnt understand us

[gnome] [tell] Metagamer!

[dave] *gnome* I speak gnome

[gnome ignores statement]

[gnome] [tell] no you dont!

I think a way to solve this is to put it down somewhere what langauges you speak at creation. Easy in PnP, not so easy in nwn. Is there anyway to do this?

Also, I feel like its easy to metagame lots of things and the solution is not to forbid the things, but to forbid the metagaming. Be responsible little RPer's.

PanamaLane I think a way to solve this is to put it down somewhere what langauges you speak at creation. Easy in PnP, not so easy in nwn. Is there anyway to do this?

I really like that idea.

My understanding is that if we were so inclined we could make a perfectly functional language system using our listening system.

Although, come to think it has issues with picking up long sentences sometimes.

Anyway -- my own take, it's always seemed awkward to me when I've seen it used. The thing is, in canon there are tons and tons of languages. The generic ones (undercommon?) are supposedly somewhat crude, so if we were really realistic people would be speaking undercommon in a really simplistic way ("me see you") and saving regular speech for the language of their choice. Not to mention it's just an element of the setting that would get extremely confusing for those (such as myself) without an encyclopaedic knowledge of the Forgotten Realms.

I guess I'm just not personally a fan. If players want to incorporate language use with their PCs they're welcome to do so, but it's purely optional.

I have an encyclopeadic knowledge of the Realms. I find the use of languages extremely fucking annoying.

Its just interferes with the game, and your ability to interact with most things. I ignore all attempts to use "languages" because I just don't have the time. I want to roleplay and interact, not take time figuring out if I can communicate with your character verbally.

I don't care as long as it's used logically. Two elves talking with [e] infront of their names, personally I find annoying. But if you're like a Red Dragon Disciple saying a dogma to a dragon to prove he's of dragon blood, that I think is actually a good thing. Just use very sparingly is my stance. :)

I suppose I take a middle ground.

I enjoy using it and seeing it used for 'flavour', but used generally, it can become extremely annoying.

For instance, I bumped into a character that summoned her hell hound familiar by (briefly) invoking the terms of a contract in Infernal. That was fun, and it added to my perception of the character and the setting.

Alas, there's a Pandora's Box effect in place. If after protracted contact with said character, it turned out that she spoke half her sentences in Infernal, that would be incredibly annoying - and confusing to keep track of.

If there has to be one of two extremes, I'd prefer to err on the side of no extra languages... but I think that used in moderation, for little details rather than regular conversation, they can add appreciated spice.

(With my own main toon, I compromise - I use foreign-sounding sentence structures when she speaks to indicate that Common, or Under-common, or whatever the heck we're speaking, is not her native language - but I never actually slip into elven.)

i've seen servers that had a language tool implemented. If someone spoke in elven and you didnt know elven, their dialog would come out as gobbly goock to you but others who knew it saw it as regular speech. Might be a hak thing, I really dont know. It was neat, but not neccesary for gaming.

For clarification, until a language script is put in place, consider all dialog to be in Common.

The use of languages other than Common for personal enjoyment is not prohibited on the server. However, players should be aware other players are not forced to recognize any language other than Common.

I don't see anything wrong with say, a human trying to impress an elf by greeting them in elven. As for protracted conversations or confidential information, in this setting you'd be a fool to assume you could get away with talking about someone in front of them in another language. One of the best parts of this server is that you can never really know who you can trust. There are always those willing to give or sell information to others and thinking you were safe from eavesdropping because you spoke in dwarven or draconic would be incredibly careless. If you must speak confidentially, the best way would be to get close enough to whisper, emote *whispers directly into their ear* and send a tell, or go to a secluded place for the conversation (where you could pretend to be speaking whatever language you wanted to, I suppose).

I have to disagree with the idea that because some people would abuse languages, nobody should use them though. Might as well get rid of weapons too because griefers could use them to kill a PC without roleplaying it. Used sparingly they can add a lot of nice detail to a character and their interactions. But I will agree it is a bit rude to hold a prolonged conversation in front of others and expect them to pretend they don't understand it. If you need to have a long talk, take a walk somewhere.

outcrowd1 If you must speak confidentially, the best way would be to get close enough to whisper, emote *whispers directly into their ear* and send a tell.

I am so against that idea. There would be no way for anyone else to hear what you're saying. Even a Deity of 20 ranks or higher, with Divine Skill Focus: Listen could hear nothing (and considering most hear and see things within a 10-mile radius, it makes even less sense.

Bottom line, it can't be heard. People don't invest points in Listen just to be cut out by the Tell-System. Please don't do it that way.

outcrowd1 If you must speak confidentially

You should never reach the status where it is a 100% sure it won't be heard/ discovered. If you want to speak confidently, go speak somewhere deep in the Underdark, next to that big rock formation (who could be a Shifter PrC, listening in on your discussion); Or talk in an abandoned part of the sewers, where rats are crawling through the pipes (Which again could be a Shapeshift; someone could still hear you); speak in the shadows of a dark-alley way (where someone may be hiding in the shadows to hear what you have to say).

Point is, total secrecy isn't cool. It's always nice to create some interesting conflict by accidently slipping something- So that actions, depending on the nature of the one that heard/ seen it, can be decided upon that. Roleplay isn't only for you, it's for all those other people logged on as well.

(Oh yes, but -if- you want to keep it totally confident, don't speak to anyone about it; Always the best way.)

outcrowd1 wrote: If you must speak confidentially, the best way would be to get close enough to whisper, emote *whispers directly into their ear* and send a tell.

Yes, don't do this.

Some other people used for their language (a kind of barbarian tribal language) just their real own native tongue.. skadinavian or norweyan, I'm sorry but I did not really recognize it.. :)

While I must admit that this works, it was endlessly painful for me to always have them speak in that since there's basically no way of telling what they mean since tone and most of the body language just go missing in a game like this.

Speaking in non-English languages should be discouraged. First of all, you use a non-canon language, with no one else can understand. Second of all, there's no way for someone else to really learn that language IC, even if you expressed desire to do so, and invested time to study it IC.

Use english, thanks.

I would be fine with one of the pre-written language tools to be used. I have played on servers with them, and it seemed fine, apparently they are hackable, but, if someone wants to go that far, then its a small loss. I dont know if any such systems are available to take up and use though. I have seen it done without needing haks, you got given an item, that could be used to adjust your language.

It certainly highted the disparate feel of places, and speaking another race/groups language let you engage more easily with them. It gave you the feeling of secrecy, when you not only wispered, but wispered in elven. And a funny moment or two happened when some elves decided to make disparaging comments about a halforc who spoke elven.

Emoted languages have played a solid part in to big pvp conflicts i've had in Arabel. A very memorable encounter where my elf character hailed another character in elvin, only to be told that the purity of the language shouldn't be defiled by speaking it in a human city.

Jadelink