At present, the main source of experience for wizards is scripted quests, which mostly entail deliveries and large-scale massacres.

As fun as large-scale massacres are, one cannot detract from the fact that wizards (ideally) earn their powers through rigorous study and research. At present, no means exists by which a wizard can strive to expand his powers through scholarly pursuits.

What of the idea of having DM-supervised research quests? Groups of wizards could suggest to a DM that they would like to research this and that (within reason), and a DM could set conditions for the completion of that research, which may include gathering components, finding test subjects, solving problems or a combination of several objectives. The research would not even require constant supervision. The end of a research quest would award experience points, as well as each wizard involved 'officially' becoming an authority on the researched subject, to an extent judged by the DM running the research quest. Research quests would make the act of gaining experience points less reliant on mindless hack-n-slash, and encourage storytelling, player interrelationships and plot development.

What do you all think of the idea? Is it plausible? Would anyone be willing to take part in these sorts of quests?

Great idea joh, certainly beats fed-ex quests. Some of these "scholar" quests could be scripted also.

You could have random rolls for when you read through a bunch of books with a x% chance of getting to stage Y

Then once there you have an X% chance to get to stage Z each read of a book would take M seconds before you can try to read another book. Int (and sometimes wis) would modify your success chance, also possible SPOT skill (and/or search skill) depending on the quest or books read.

You could have certain items in the inventory increasing the chance so if you actually READ the texts you'll spend a shorter time doing the quest. (for example you may be researching the magic properties of beetles, so having a fire beetle shell in your inventory may speed things up etc)

There could be a number of "libraries" however small or big in various parts of sanctuary that may have certain books or people to talk to that may help you on step K of the quest.

ANother thing for wizards/sorcerors/bards is the use of particular cantrips cast at certain things to further a quest.

(e.g a research may mention the affect light has on particular statue in room V.. if you go there and cast a light or continal flame on it, you'll improve you chances of researching the next part of the quest by J%)

Theres quite a few possibilities there.

Typically, xp is granted based on risk taken,* so as long as the research quests incur an appropriate amount of risk. (Perhaps there's a svirfneblin book on some obscure topic stashed away in a haunted wizard's lair somewhere?)

Otherwise, depending on class, you should expect to get levels from beating on combat dummies, praying in a temple or picking locks. I don't think that's actually so unreasonable - but the reward should drop dramatically as your levels rise.

(See the Bilby quest; this is actually a pretty good example of a quest which allows rogues to gain experience without having to hack and slash. Something similar for other classes might be kinda what you're looking for here. But note that the Bilby quest still incurs a pretty fair amount of actual danger to the rogue.)

*Or for roleplay, but that would only provide the exception to the rule, and I have a feeling that's not what you're after. Still - if you roleplay a researcher, you're bound to get some xp as a reward from a DM sooner or later, if you do it well.

Johannes -

I would enjoy this sort of thing for my spellcasting/researching character! Great idea!

XP could be granted for interactively solving puzzles created by the DMs, etc... I'm not sure how well this would work in a scripted environment, though...

Johannes -

I would enjoy this sort of thing for my spellcasting/researching character! Great idea!

XP could be granted for interactively solving puzzles created by the DMs, etc... I'm not sure how well this would work in a scripted environment, though...

Oops - thought I was logged in....

No-one ever said that magical research didn't have a risk attached to it. The DM could throw in a few explosions, botched-up summonings, rampaging mice, poisonings, the risk of discovery during illegal testing on human subjects...

Spell components might be exclusively found growing on trolls' warts. Or maybe the 'test subjects' may be scattered abroad (in the case of testing on fungi), and require tramping around the underdark.

A single project could span several hours, days or even weeks, in which time, who knows how many things could go wrong by the time that the research project has been completed?

Yeah you could do all that. You could also put in the research quests in there IN-PLACE of the fed-ex quests for level 2-4.

They may take longer, give much the same xp but maybe you'd get a scroll or two or a cantrip wand, mages certainly dont want to (and usually dont have the strength to) deliver a package to the blue note.

i have another log in that i play a mage almost exclusively.. but she disdains bloodshed if it can be helped... i would love to get together and help in this sort of thing.... maybe even.. if allowed.. have a group research TOGETHER an item or such.. of course i have another idea.. but i think i need to pm that to a dm.....

Why just 2-4? Higher level PCs could have more complex, more difficult ones, involving things like troll warts and mushrooms that only grow in the windy canyon, that kind of thing.

I agree that each quest should only be doable once by a PC, but that they should last a long time - perhaps it could take the form of lots of sub-quests (cave A has trap on box containing enchanable ring 1, cave B has difficult riddle for mushroom 2, cave 3 is full of spiders - encourages co-operation) and something else more like the bounty in the spellguard - three silk glands gets you a minor wand of web, or a scroll of it. Have an NPC that if you give them 6 trollwarts, 10 silk glands, 25 ichor bundles and 2,000 gold will give you a cloak of regen 5 HP per hour, acid resistance 4. Or a wand of cure serious and acidic fog or something. You could have a list of things he can make...

Or something. Would have to make sure the ingredients are varied in difficulty to get and that things are balanced so as not to be sick. Maybe have a few books that are only available after doing a difficult puzzle-quest, which you have to give to the NPC before he can make the thing.

Not a bad idea for DM quests, but bear in mind that if we're going to run a DM quest it would probably be something involving more than one person.

I'd like some ideas for potential wizard-specific scripted quests, though. An obvious one would be hunting out components in exchange for scrolls, for instance. Feel free to brainstorm out some more though.

I actually intended my rather vague suggestion as a scripted thing. Essentially, there would be one NPC somewhere who is able to create enchanted items, scrolls, wands etc. Each one would cost a certain amount of money and require a number of ingredients, danger and number being directly equal to the worth of the item. Things like skeleton knuckles, ichor, firebeetle bellies. Relate them to the qualities of the original beast. For things slightly more advanced than wands and scrolls, there are special quests. Things like combination locks with an imp giving you a clue that you have to work out, codes which change randomly between 6 different types (ie one day it's letter replacement, the next letter replacement and the words are backward, third day it's alphabet +1 letter etc) puzzles, things that need a certain amount of skill in lore or spellcraft. Maybe a creature that's really physically resistant but will die instantly to a magic missile. Also put in a few where you need the mage along but you need to bring a certain other class to help - e lots of traps, maybe a door that only opens to bardsong. These all give a certain book or special component that will allow you to make more advanced items/get high-level scrolls. Again, these ideas probably take a -lot- of work before they're even worth considering, but there might be something salvageable in them :P

Having an NPC that coud create items from components and coin would be cool, but a scripted XP granting quest focused on research would be pretty neat. Maybe a fun magic item as a reward instead of coin...

Ideas: Something similar to the Gruzbella quest, but for arcane spell-casters.

A changing (to avoid expolit) puzzle-based quest would be neat (as mentioned above).

Exploration quests, perhaps? Go find and subdue a certain type of creature, or take notes on a certain area of the world

Man, players always suggest scripted quests that are so complicated to script.

maybe not scripted quests... but if the players put a lot of time and energy into coming up with a potential to create an item.. maybe posting there ideas in the form of letters back and forth to each other.. then.. at some point.. a dm if they felt so inclined.. could pm these mages and se when a good time for them to do a "research" quest... it does not have to be scripted... and .. unless the pc's just try to go over board.. the dm does not have to worrie about what type of treasure to drop... as they know the whole point that they casters are trying to accomplish... sorry.. i have a habbit of being long winded... i know what my mage wants.. and i dont see it happening... but i am discussing iyt with players in game..........

DM quests are great but rare - scripted quests would be pretty cool. Sorry for being so awkward, Howland. If I had the faintest clue of how to script I'd offer to help.

I'm pretty sure it's assumed that a wizard character is doing this sort of research between adventures anyway, just like fighters are assumed to practice and keep in shape. Still, it could be used as a jumping off point for quests anyway. Maybe rarer spell scrolls could only be found by completing quests to find them?

Perhaps a quest to locate components needed to spell study? Similer to the diamond quest for the hold.

Howland Man, players always suggest scripted quests that are so complicated to script.

Heh, but thats where the fun is isnt it, without the challenge the reward isnt very sweet, this is as much true in the creating as it is in the experiencing.

My sub-suggestion was some scripted quests to replace fed-ex or combat ones (for low levels), for the more scholarily inclined. (bards, wizards, sorcerors and possibly a cleric (like one of savras, azuth, mystra, oghma etc) )

If fact maybe you could even get that ex-councillor in on the mission. Maybe you need to go back and talk to her at points while you do your research.

To balance.. it should take as much time to do the mission (for the same xp) as it would for a combat mission or if it's a replacement of a fed-ex at least that much time.

The ones for higher level characters would possible be better done with d.m missions, they could definitely use this scripted starter quest as a start point though. (since it would be introducing libraries, knowledgable sanctuary characters etc)

Man, players always suggest scripted quests that are so complicated to script.

To balance.. it should take as much time to do the mission (for the same xp) as it would for a combat mission or if it's a replacement of a fed-ex at least that much time.

Actually I'd say longer, or at least as long as a combat mission with -lots- of RP in it. The fact that the risk is being reduced so much makes it more important to make a different kind of commitment, and time makes sense to me.