This thread was inspired by sherry's quest, in an attempt to probe the playerbase and the DM Team for ideas on changing paradigms around DM quests.

Basically, our DM quests are many, and varied. I've seen ones centered almost fully around combat, and I've seen ones where combat doesn't even get touched. I've seen quests that 'could have gone either way', and the party's influence is what made it end like it did. They're all sweet and cool and stuff, but one thing that is always a constraint, is time. No matter how long a quest is, QUESTS only last a given period of time. Plots can last for months, maybe even years, but quests only last for a night (at least the ones I've seen).

My proposal, is that DMs and players work together to establish a new, 'special' sort of quest. In no way will this supplant the usual way we run them, but it could be a welcome change of pace, in some cases (especially where it makes ample sense to use this model instead of the one-nighter). What am I proposing? That DMs actively seek out players OOC, after a quest has been 'agreed to' IC, to work out times/disponibility, so that a quest can run for more than one night.

As an example: DM_Johnny proposes to players A, B and C that they participate in a huge dungeon crawl. The dungeon in question, is, in fact, so gargantuan, that an entire tribe of gnolls has settled in a small portion of it. Their ultimate goal lies at the very bottom, and will only be accessible after days of trap-springing and puzzle solving.

So: Night 1: DM_Johnny approaches A, B and C in the guise of NPC X. The PCs agree to partake in the quest, so the DM approaches the players over IRC, and they agree on times to meet over the next few days. Until the quest is completed, the location of the characters is persistent. So, it's kinda like running little sessions of a table-top game. When the DM leaves, you all pack it in, and wait for the next day. In the first night, our intrepid players descend to the middle of the dungeon, discovering that the first levels of traps and monsters seem oddly deserted.

Night 2: They are captured by the tribe of gnolls, and need to work out a way to escape.

Night 3: They stage a revolt, with the help of other captives (a nice tie-in for a prelude, perhaps?) and finally make their way to the very bottom of the dungeon, where they find their treasure, and a portal leading them to the very beginning of the dungeon, from which they return in safety to Sanctuary.

Of course, it would require massive coordination between those involved, but I think it'd be doable in a few cases, and massively fun, if it did work as planned. Furthermore, I could see characters changing much more fluidly after a quest like this. It isn't a quick dungeon crawl, but something that made your character question who he/she truly is, because they were in some very big dangers for a considerable amount of time.

Thoughts?

- Kiaring

This sounds pretty awesome. The only real downside to this is that I'd have to do tons of real-life scheduling to make it happen without putting a bunch of PCs on hold for a whole week. It would be pretty rough to do this if the sections were spaced out any more than a night or two at a time, I think, since people don't want to not be able to play their primary PCs. It's been done with preludes before, I know, but that's a bit different.

That being said, I love this idea. If it seems feasible, expect me to attempt something along these lines.

Ah, yes. This is that campaign within a PW idea. It's already been given some thought. I think this idea has merit too, but like Sassy said, there's really serious scheduling issues.

I like this idea as well, although I agree with others that scheduling for those with real lives makes it a problem.

I'm more in favor of ongoing mini-campaigns that are episodic and permit a somewhat more fluid mix of characters from session to session, such as a series of forays by the members of a faction to clear out denizens moving into once sacred territory. There would be some continuity here as at least a few characters would repeatedly attend each session, but then the chance is made to bring in reinforcements or change party configuration between episodes.

Example: A faction is interested in clearing an area of the outer reaches of the city as a base, and inform the DMs of this. They then arrange as a faction to provide patrols into the area. Sometimes nothing, sometimes DM intervention as they battle for control with the monsters in charge.

Over time, they clear the upper reaches and manage to set their own traps and bring in supplies and what not. Eventually they discover a barred door that opens to a platform with no stairs leading down. Another session involves procuring ropes to make the descent and fighting along the way, because of course no one carries the 100+ pound ropes sold at *spoiler* "just in case".

Later, they encounter.....

You get the idea.

Prof

I did this a fair bit in alpha, except with different parties attempting to finish the same quest, instead of just one party. Coordinating that many people is very difficult.

I had always planned to run my escape quest over the course of a week, though, so I definitely share your passion for this idea.

great idea though the only problem i see is it rewards those who use IRC.. and for those who dont...well they get left outta the loop.

perhaps forum recruiting like the preludes would be a better way to achieve it..

perhaps...

Although I would log on to IRC just for it. (currently I don't use any chat program, including msn, although I have it) I think it more then awesome, and reminds me a bit of pnp quest.

As for the no IRC users? a forum regarding it would be neat. Contacting each other wouldn't be so tough, I assume (perhaps agreeing on the times for the 3 nights, as from before, so it wouldn't be so hard to make it, as well as keep it as dense as possible)

I know Howland has done at least one quest like this. Though, the original party could not be brought together again to complete it (didn't matter IG). That said, of course, I fully support this idea.

I think it's a fair idea but some people may not be there for the first part of the quest for some reason, some may not be there days along into the quest, how do you handle those discrepancies?

Continuity is hard.

Plots are easier because they in-effect dont require any particular player to be there, some may have seen earlier parts or rumours, and it works from there.

Players would get xp rewards for participation, not necessarily being there at the ultimate conclusion (whatever that happens to be)

I think the "escape quests" though would fit with this sort of theme, that it may take many "days" to reach the surface. Even if a way is found. And the same group would be needed (except those that permanently perish on the way) each day for continuity.

Maybe this is how it's already done?

I like th4e idea. Lots.

I also would like to see more quests that become part of plots. I've seen it happen with a few, but the majority of the time, it seems like characters immediately forget all about what happened during the DM event as soon as it's clear the DM's logged off.

Do.

I think going for anything more than 4/5 characters on a quest like this is insane for the very reasons you all mentioned. Then you might wonder "Why go through all this effort to benefit 4, maybe 5 players at a time?" Well, if this sort of quest becomes 'frequent' (Which, in this case means it'd happen maybe once every couple months), a good deal of players could be able to take part in them. I'd like to see DMs adopt a policy where these are used to 'reward' players who have been awesome, and I'd like to see these quests 'tailored' towards their characters. It'd be much more awesome to take part in something like this if it's something that your character has been craving for a long time, or if it's something that touches the very essence of who they are.

- K.

If the DM has the time to run this and especially wants to, cool.

I for one think what they already do is well over enough and don't really think it's fair to expect them to run quests like these, but if they want to, cool!

I quite like this idea. Tough to schedule, but definitely lots of potential for awesome.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to do, especially when I'm tight on time, I can bend my life around a single scheduled quest or two and then leave it at the end to return to what I was doing, rather than sitting around IG incase something might happen or trying to set something up in 3 hours and finding it starts when I run out of time.

I like the idea two. but it is a bummer for people that cannot come to *part 2* of a quest.

Kiaring I think going for anything more than 4/5 characters on a quest like this is insane for the very reasons you all mentioned. Then you might wonder "Why go through all this effort to benefit 4, maybe 5 players at a time?" Well, if this sort of quest becomes 'frequent' (Which, in this case means it'd happen maybe once every couple months), a good deal of players could be able to take part in them. I'd like to see DMs adopt a policy where these are used to 'reward' players who have been awesome, and I'd like to see these quests 'tailored' towards their characters. It'd be much more awesome to take part in something like this if it's something that your character has been craving for a long time, or if it's something that touches the very essence of who they are.

- K.

One of the reasons I often pass on DM quests is that they typically have far too many players for any sort of roleplaying to happen. It's usually just a bunch of strangers running down a series of corridors killing stuff. One notable exception was the quest that got the Stouthearts their hall. That one worked because it was tailored to a particular group of PCs who knew each other at least a little already. That's the sort of thing these quests could be.

I think it's important for DMs to involve many players when they do things, but on the other hand, it's the moments when you feel like they're paying attention to your individual characters that really stick out.

I completely agree with the last post.

I have been on DM quests with large groups of strangers, and on quests with smaller groups of good players, or PCs that knew each other. And I can only say this: I always had much more fun with those smaller groups. No custom loot, no DM XP can ever express the joy of roleplaying with a fine group of individuals. A good example was the quest that gained Fenaris his armor and Sonia her red robe: We were just about six or seven players, all good (I daresay) roleplayers. The dwarf happily jabbed at the half-orc, the evil wizardess spoke cruelties to make ones toe's curl, the good priest grew more and more annoyed at the jabbering, squabbling ones, and a certain gnome tried to sell turnip-cologne to an ancient, undead vampire spectre. Now THAT was a great experience.

I think what I am trying to say is: It's best to have some nice quests with few, select PCs rather than large 14+ player quests that end up being hack & slay. I know the goal is to involve as many as possible, but if it ends up being simple H&S without any RP anymore, you just end up disappointing 14 players, even though you could have made 7 players very happy instead.

Just my two coppers.

I completely disagree. On the recent "Rescue Adelia" quest, I had no idea we were going to have to rescue her. When the shit hit the fan eventually, a very interesting solution to the problem arose. It worked (while my char laid near-death and invisible), and the role-play was great. Several chars joined us later, making it even more interesting. It certainly wasn't hank'n'slash, but we did have to fight our way back to Sanctuary. My current char has been on DM quests more than normal quests (I know I'm extremely lucky on that count), but i wouldn't have it any other way. I've done every quest a million times, and the chance to do something interesting and different is something I jump at. I don't care if I get ZERO treasure. It is just plain fun. Period. :D

This idea is interesting

I think you could also make it a bit broader than just one group. Why not have two parallel groups acting separatly but towards a similar goal? Like that if one group can't makw it and the other can, you can still have a night'sworth of fun.

You could also turn this into a campaign, say, fighting of the Orog horde. Depending on the success of each group, the story sways one way or another.

Let's say we have 3 groups of 8 men each, X, Y and Z. On the first day, Z capture's a supply base but looses 1 man on the way, while X safely ambushes a powerfull force and crushes them. However, Y isn't that lucky as they loose 2 men and fail to secure the supply line to Sanctuary leading from the base Z captured, but the goblins didn't get it entirely either. So no change in advantage. Z has 7 men, X has 8 and Y has only 6

Next day, Z captures a well defended fort, but are beaten up pretty badly but no losses. We could put a penalty on Will checks as they are all tired. Y with the help of X annihilates the goblins on the supply line. X could now get a bonus to Will checks as they are victorious twice, but Y doesn't as they failed before. Because the supply line has been secured, meaning Sanctuary can provide better equipment and the peple are more fit to fight.

That sort of campaign?

Several of my chars have had personal quests spaning from their creation to their death.

It's called manipulation, i bend other players to serve my will.