I've been tooling around with the idea of running a permadeath quest with amazingly high casualty rates (Roughly 85% of the party.), that will yield amazing loot in return for those that survive. I know permadeath doesn't quite appeal to everyone on the server, and some people aren't quite as obsessed with overwhelming mechanics challenges like me, but! I'd stress that what I have in mind will do much more than just cater to min-maxed builds, and inviso-sneak-survivalists, etc...

I can't help but wonder. Would you go on what you knew to be a deathtrap with your main characters if the lure of amazing treasure was there?

Discuss!

maybe depends on the quest- depends who goes- if high levels go- then im not likely to go, since the hardness factor will be centered on them, which leads to my utter demise.

but as an organizer of a potential attack on traensyr, Im all for missions with low success rate!!

Currently, I definitely would. Given that I'm not terribly interested in my main character anymore, though I think that does sort of defeat the purpose of your idea.

Had this opportunity come up while I was playing Cail, for example, I would not have gone for anything, because I wanted to finish the character properly, rather than having him die an untimely death on a quest of no plot significance.

So: Not with a character with whom I'm still attached. Same as I wouldn't work on a character for two weeks and then go on the Undermountain prelude and -die-.

If the word "depends" isn't posted at least 20 times in the first page, I'm gonna eat my thumb...

Some characters yes, some no. Depends on the character. Vrirkuk would leap for it. Barrister wouldn't.

I would go.

Right. It definitely depends on the quest. I've been a sucker for Escape quests in the past, but with my current main character I'd probably only go for something like this if it entirely fit his character.

This would be great if, say, the WHOLE COUNCIL went on one.

It really depends on how the quest is pitched and the level range. Right now my main character wouldn't unless he -knew- that survival meant a Ring of Three Wishes or something equally ludicrous. (Maybe the power to persuade the Seekers to let him into their archives...) He's also level 6.

My permadead, old main character might have jumped on the chance during one of his "I have to get out of this town an DO something" spells, but he could barely hold level 4, and the loot, even the glory, definitely wouldn't be his motivation, but rather the fact that it's crazy. He'd have given all the loot to the House of Light in exchange for a statue of Kelemvor, in the highly unlikely event he survived.

It'd depend on the character, the nature of the quest among other things.

My current character, sure- If it made any IC sense. Past characters? It might take more IC reasoning, though Mormont probably would of definitely gone for the assurance of glory/wealth, etc.

Definitely depends on the character, but I have one that would go.

I think the idea of this quest is to go with your main-character. At least to me, it seems sort of silly to go on a perma-death quest with a character you don't care about just for obscene loot. Where's the risk?

Well...

It will likely have an evil/neutral appeal, and will not be an escape quest. Outside of saying that, I don't really want to spoil anything. Escape quest would mean you'd never get to use the lewt. :/

I feel like there's likely enough support to run one of these, so- expect it in the near future!

High Risk/Reward quests are always fun and interesting. However, the biggest problems occur when the group that goes on the quest is non-cohesive, and doesn't work together well.

The last one I went on, some impatient players fell for a simple ambush and ran over a deadly electric trap, killing nearly everyone.

This sounds too appealing for players with side characters that may have the mindset of, "hey, sweet phat loot. oh wellz if I die." What if this was just simply unannounced...you running a particularily high risk quest that lands high reward?

Similar to those previous High risk/reward preludes that have been run.

I of course mean it depends on the character for IC reasons, not OOC.

ExileStrife This sounds too appealing for players with side characters that may have the mindset of, "hey, sweet phat loot. oh wellz if I die." What if this was just simply unannounced...you running a particularily high risk quest that lands high reward?

Often when I ran this quests in the past on another server, that's EXACTLY who showed up. Either old semi-retired characters or side characters.

As others have already stated, something like this would depend entirely on the nature of the quest, and my IC motivation. Unless I was playing a character who was just very greedy, I don't think I'd come along on a high risk quest only for the benefit of good loot.

Pfft! 85% mortality rates, I scoff. I have been on several Metropakt spiced or created adventures. 85% sounds positively cosy by comparison. Bring it.

A great point, ExileStrife/Oroborous, and one that has me somewhat worried about running this sort of event. I'm going to see what I can do to ensure that kind of stuff doesn't sully the awesome I hope to produce.

Changing 85% Perma into 85% / But you can get raised afterwards, if your friends bother to, would make it twice as appealing already. Either way, I'd play.

Winston Martin This would be great if, say, the WHOLE COUNCIL went on one.

And if you didn't know, any and all my chars would go, mama!1

With my current main char, she would totally go on this, heh Can one blame my rogue? ;)

Depends really, if it's assured 85% death rate or a ball park approximation.

Will it mean there will ALWAYS be one survivor in 10 people? Is the quest not over till there is one standing? And is it really over when there IS one standing?

Metropakt's quests dont count as comparison, because survival is the reward in itself :) Theres NO phat loot on those quests /spices :)

That said I'm not really a loot type of player, I like the randomness and wondering what will pop up next but I dont drool over the power glow (or potential power glow) of some items like some do.

Pfft bring it on!!! 85% is CHILD'S PLAY! :P

85%-100% death rate is what I'll be shooting for. I'm going to make it quite clear that this will be for your primary/application/main characters. Probably will run this once my Goblintown plot is over. Thanks for all the input guys. You're all great :)

I would be all for this if my character were given ample reason to believe, IC, that he/she would die a final death if she fell on this quest. Why? Because then I get to act differently? Yeah, pretty much. If perma-death is on the table, I'd suppose characters in a setting where death is painful, but reversible would take a whole different approach to the subject.

Gold? Glory? Riches? Count me in!

bring it on..i'm a sucker for zombie movies where they start with a band of people and one by one they all fall leaving just the lone hero or two making it out..

make it zombie hordes and i'm there naked wearing nothing but bells!

Just to make one thing clear - 85-100% casualties with permadeath is something you will be explicitly warned of prior to any sort of quest of this nature. I've been getting some questions of late, and felt it necessary to remind everyone. Thanks again for all the input!

We're going to play Call of Cthulu aren't we? Don't read the book!

Some part of me *really* wants to try this just to see if I can hack it. Dump all my money into potions, hotbar everything, cross your fingers and roll the dice...its so damn tempting. keeping in mind though that efu super leet loot is a class of its own.

How about running a super-hard quest, and then giving the people who lose their main characters some nice, phat stuff for their next characters, instead? Or running said super-hard quest by capturing everyone and sending them off to Traensyr as slaves - and combat will result in death, whereas any way out will be strictly non-combat?

I think people who can beat the game mechanics are already rewarded plenty, day in and day out, on quest after quest.

I'm hoping for a mix of combat and NPC interaction in which Bluff/Intimidate/Persuade/Pick Pocket/Hide/Search/Spot/Listen and perhaps more skills than I can recall will be called for extensively.

Yes, it will be a mechanical rush. Yes it will likely cater to higherish levels. And Yes, those of you who have invested in obscure skill ranks will be rewarded with a chance to shine.

I'm on the fence about your idea, Grendel. Maybe if someone goes out in an incredibly awesome way I'll consider it.

If I can somehow get myself involved with my LG Sebastian, count me in. Perma-death doesn't scare one when one always plays his characters that way, anyway! 8)

I love that you will need obscure skills and abilities to complete/advance the quest. I sincerely hope that my current char has a chance to participate. Live or die. Loot or no loot. Bring it on! This is the exact sort of thing that brings me back to this server day after day! It's a %@&#ing game! Come on! Let's get a little crazy, roll some dice, and see what happens!

(I apologize for the over-use of exclamation points)

I can't say I actually agree with the idea really in its pure format. I don't see the fun in a total party wipe out in general, but actively making a quest for that sole purpose is beyond me.

You said 85 to 100%. if you take it to the top end of the scale, thats what you mean. 100% is total party kill.

It might be a really big plot push and one person ends up king of the hill, but in general that doesn't strike me as fun.

I like a challenge as much as anyone, but to know the DM is actively trying to kill us makes no sense. A d20 and DM kill has the same outcome.

Sorry sherry, I'm not in.

I must admit, there is something so satisfying about surviving when the odds were stacked against you. But there has to at least be a semi-decent chance of survival, otherwise it just feels crap. 75-85% I'd consider (though not with Fuinn, there's too much I want to do with her) but 85-100 just feels a little too high. It's like the Beggar's prelude a while ago. I made a character specifically to die, but I would have enjoyed it a hell of a lot better if they'd toyed with us a little first, given us a tiny head-start to build up hope, ridden in circles around us to tease us with the chance we might get out, that kind of thing. Instead, I was dead In about 30 seconds - partially due to a little lag/him refusing to run for a moment or two, but still, it was a real let down. And that was with someone I had created to kill, not invested months of planning and RP in. Essentially, I guess I think you should make sure that those who do die feel they got their moneys worth too, make it fun and dramatic...

NB not having a go at anyone here, I love the DM team, had a lot of fun with random DM spice and quests, including TheBeggar (bot 42) so please don't take this as an attack or anything.

It wouldn't be so much that the dm team are out to kill you, more like the enemys require more strategy to beat.

It -does- all come down to luck in the end, it always makes or breaks a game Having the lowest level character in a group massive critical the boss still causes the boss to die, regardless of how anti-climatic it is (for the player who did this, you know who you are! *points an accusing finger*)

Everyone will be warned IC about how horribly, amazingly, crazy one would have to be to agree to this quest by the NPC! It won't be my intention to kill -everyone-, I'm just saying it's something that I can definitely forsee happening if things get wild enough.

I'd totally risk my ass for awesome loot!

(Only read the first post)

You would have to change it regularly so that the players would have to figure out how to beat them. Make it intellectual aswell as a good fight (like those bosses in the Metroid Primes). I think that the prospect of getting nice loot would be good, but the danger puts me off. Maybe not putting it perma but increasing XP loss? Like 1/2 XP rather than 1/3? But then that would lose the danger side to it.

ICly, almost no character should refuse the idea, except those afraid of death. Why do adventurers go on quests when they might die? Because they are not afraid. Why do they fight hordes of monsters, when the average person would flee with his tail between his legs? Because they are not afraid. So why wouldn't they do this quest? Because the player is scared. I think it would be totally OOC if the char wouldn't go, because it would be a contradiction of what the char does on normal quests. The only exception to that is if the character doesn't quest.

And anyway, If you wanted to kill 85-100% of the party, send a drow invasion force to Sanctuary. Then it will be a struggle for survival.

(I do not mean to offend anyone with this post. If people are offended, I will consider withdrawing it)

It would be OOC except that Sherry said the NPC would warn them it was incredibly dangerous. Most adventurers are at least a little afraid of death, and many will run or down an invis if things turn nasty. Being a little cocky (it's only a few goblins, we can take 'em!) isn't quite the same as being suicidal. A PC is not and was never supposed to be an average person. We're heroes. Every single one. Or anti-heroes, if you go that way. But 10 is an average stat. -8 is not OMG low, it's a little below average. But to a PC it's really low (I also think that whole '-9 int means you can't speak properly' thing is bull, but that's a matter for a seperate rant). Killing a horde of zombies is all in a days work for people like us. That's the point. A rat or two can kill a commoner. So dangerous by PC levels, which is what we'll be told, is a valid reason to not go IC.

for the starting question when you ask about death trap loot. I think none of my chars would go outta the suspicions of a trap.

Well, i for one, have been highly suicidal with my main characters for a long time, sure, i absolutly HATE perma-death, but it's amazing to watch their friends forget and stop caring about them so quickly, after Reonie Tibble died, if i still had a reason to play Soigo Feld (like, one of her best friends) he'd have an emo session then commit suicide.

But as for a %85 risk of death for treasure: no. Whats the point of having ubah loot on a dead character?

To give him a nice grave for grave robbers >_>.

I realized earlier on that there are two exceptions to what I said earlier : The one said earlier, and along the lines of the Chars being different The Wise one and Intelligent one. If a char has a realatively high WIS or INT, he'll know that the promise of great loot will be at a high cost and not without a great deal of danger.

I think that the important bit to the teams survival would be finding a way to beat them, aka good strategy. However, that would mean two things : -one, The DM's will have to change the quest regularly. -two, the team's line up will have to be spot on, which in most cases won't be possible.

Also, I was thinking : what if players who managed to survive time and time again got loot and became too powerful in PvP? Should we make it a one time only quest ( like Tyrell's), so tht players get one piece loot they need ( which might depend on DM involvement to make the loot) that they can't get otherwise, or put a limit on the number of times theey can do it? (once a month real time?)

I think you're confused.

This will be a one-shot event.

Everyones chars die so often i wouldnt even care.

Ah ok. That rules out my first problem. But it isn't a reason to not try and make the player figure out how to beat, say, the boss.

I'm for it!