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Some things that need to be emphasized.

I am currently on my third main character. Each character I have played has brought something to my attention that I think the DM's should emphasize about the server.

When I played Melrick he got to see Lower before the rebellion and after the rebellion. He even got the chance to play a small role in the rebellion itself, and had a indirect relationship with two of the people responsible. The initial reaction after the rebellion was somewhat good, shock, horror, disbelief to name a few.

However, a week or so afterward and especially after the lift was put in, it became a "meh" issue. People really didn't focus or care much about it anymore. People did not seem to TRULY realize the impact that a divided city could have - they did not seem to realize just the vulnerable and precarious nature of the city.

Sanctuary as a whole was just scraping by and if an enemy from the outside wanted to conquer it - well lets just say they wouldn't have to try TOO hard. The division should make things much worse, but people have mostly begrudgingly accepted it and largely it hasn't had a major plot focus.

This, I believe, in turn makes Sanctuary seem "safe". Why haven't the Drow Invaded after all this time? Where are the Illithid and the Beholders? They know the city is there, yet they have made no moves to recapture slaves that escaped as well as to capture thousands more.

I believe that the Drow should invade the city and conquer the Canal Ward. I believe that they should begin hauling people away as slaves - NPC and PC alike. Force the PC's to push them back and reclaim the Canal Ward. Make it difficult and make certain that it costs the freedom and lives of many citizens of Sanctuary - let it serve as a reminder of the position everyone is in.

As Thazar I played a Thayan Red Wizard. People despised him without ever getting to know him simply because he was Thayan. They hated Thayans because they were slaves - and I thought this was good. Sanctuary is a city of escaped slaves and such reactions would be normal.

Yet, in the same breath players would curse Thazar for his "slaver" ways, they would go on an errand quest for the Duergar, they would help the Duergar however they could - and most did not even see the hypocrisy in their actions.

Most people didn't know that Thazar wasn't evil. He was just someone who was brought up in a culture that was different than most others, and someone who took pride in that culture. Yet, as people damned him for being a slave owner they aided a group of people who were just as bad.

The likelihood you would run into someone who was a Thayan Slave in Sanctuary is small. The likelihood you'll run into someone who was a slave to the Duergar is extremely high, yet from the reactions you would get from most PC's you would think it was the exact opposite.

I would like the Duergar in the mines to have slave NPC's wandering around. Let it serve as a reminder to everyone who passes through that the Duergar -are- slavers and are evil. Let there be several quests (perhaps by the Seekers) to indirectly undermine the Duergar and free their slaves. They would be forced to act in such a way as to not confront them directly - a letter to a "Slave Leader" by the Seekers which give him directions to a secret cache of weapons to aid in a slave revolt. Something as simple as that could better illustrate the true nature of the Duergar.

As Hoaradin I've found that among the players of the server most seem to bring in real world concepts of racial equality. Yet, in the Forgotten Realms most people are raised from birth onward to dislike races such as goblins and kobolds. They are raised to fear demons and devils. They are raised to distrust - if not outright dislike Half-Orcs (especially those who look more Orc than Human). Yet only in a small handful of cases have I seen anything like this role-played out. Most parties would happily accept a goblin to go along with them on a quest and treat him or her just like any other member of the group.

I think to emphasize the nature of playing such races those who play them shouldn't be able to use many of the merchants within the city. They shouldn't be able to be the ones to "get" the quests from quest NPC's - after all why would someone higher a goblin and a kobold to look into problems at his warehouse? He'd be just as likely to laugh at them for suggesting it as to have them arrested by the Watch because he believes they want to steal what is inside.

Racial stigma should be more obvious in NPC's and their reactions. If players see this on a more regular basis they'd be more inclined to role-play along with it.

Just some thoughts and observations I've made across my characters so far, and things that I believe should be emphasized to better reflect the mood and the setting.

I agree, and have seen some really silly things. Elves and Orcs being chums. Dwarves questing with goblins happily. Gnomes and Kobolds walking hand in hand. Though I understand not everyone has access to sourcebook materials, it would be nice to see very basic, racially aligned hatred more frequently played out by PC's.

Generally NPC's always treat Goblins and Kobolds like crap as far as I have seen! The same goes with monstrous half-orcs that are min/maxed monstrosities that have difficulties speaking common.

However, a week or so afterward and especially after the lift was put in, it became a "meh" issue. People really didn't focus or care much about it anymore. People did not seem to TRULY realize the impact that a divided city could have - they did not seem to realize just the vulnerable and precarious nature of the city.

Sanctuary as a whole was just scraping by and if an enemy from the outside wanted to conquer it - well lets just say they wouldn't have to try TOO hard. The division should make things much worse, but people have mostly begrudgingly accepted it and largely it hasn't had a major plot focus.

This, I believe, in turn makes Sanctuary seem "safe". Why haven't the Drow Invaded after all this time? Where are the Illithid and the Beholders? They know the city is there, yet they have made no moves to recapture slaves that escaped as well as to capture thousands more.

I believe that the Drow should invade the city and conquer the Canal Ward. I believe that they should begin hauling people away as slaves - NPC and PC alike. Force the PC's to push them back and reclaim the Canal Ward. Make it difficult and make certain that it costs the freedom and lives of many citizens of Sanctuary - let it serve as a reminder of the position everyone is in.

I'd love to see more strain with Upper. A barricade facing the lift or the stairs with a handful of footmen. A few signs stating that agents need to check with a nearby officer (or maybe a small office in that door near the lift to cut down on chatter) before entering, and perhaps making Upper citizens would need to check their weapons. These would all need to be pursued in game, of course.

As far an invasion goes, I'd love to see this to an extent. I'd like to see more threats to the city that create a very real danger of destruction. If not an army of drow (who would probably wipe Lower out), then perhaps a force of orogs, illithid thralls, etc. that could practically be wiped out. An invasion would be great, as it would force the city to compartmentalize in case of an invasion.

A long-term invasion may become messy, especially if a newer player were to wander into a combat zone and get killed without warning.

The likelihood you would run into someone who was a Thayan Slave in Sanctuary is small. The likelihood you'll run into someone who was a slave to the Duergar is extremely high, yet from the reactions you would get from most PC's you would think it was the exact opposite.

I would like the Duergar in the mines to have slave NPC's wandering around. Let it serve as a reminder to everyone who passes through that the Duergar -are- slavers and are evil. Let there be several quests (perhaps by the Seekers) to indirectly undermine the Duergar and free their slaves. They would be forced to act in such a way as to not confront them directly - a letter to a "Slave Leader" by the Seekers which give him directions to a secret cache of weapons to aid in a slave revolt. Something as simple as that could better illustrate the true nature of the Duergar.

I love the idea too. Something I'd like to see is a small duergar faction that requiring application to play a duergar representative of Clan Grundstubhle. Maybe three or four retainers at a time could be in play negotiating trade deals and pursuing the Clan agenda, especially as an interesting (albeit small) antithesis to the Stouthearts.

Conflict is always more interesting with other PCs involved. If there were to be a Seeker or Stoutheart v. duergar struggle, I'd love to see duergar agents cementing relationships with the various competing factions and having the strength of Grundhstubble reflect this. It'd be interesting to see a few human slaves working throughout the mine, too. It'd do a pretty good job of cementing how evil they actually are.

As Hoaradin I've found that among the players of the server most seem to bring in real world concepts of racial equality. Yet, in the Forgotten Realms most people are raised from birth onward to dislike races such as goblins and kobolds. They are raised to fear demons and devils. They are raised to distrust - if not outright dislike Half-Orcs (especially those who look more Orc than Human). Yet only in a small handful of cases have I seen anything like this role-played out. Most parties would happily accept a goblin to go along with them on a quest and treat him or her just like any other member of the group.

I think to emphasize the nature of playing such races those who play them shouldn't be able to use many of the merchants within the city. They shouldn't be able to be the ones to "get" the quests from quest NPC's - after all why would someone higher a goblin and a kobold to look into problems at his warehouse? He'd be just as likely to laugh at them for suggesting it as to have them arrested by the Watch because he believes they want to steal what is inside.

Racial stigma should be more obvious in NPC's and their reactions. If players see this on a more regular basis they'd be more inclined to role-play along with it.

Just some thoughts and observations I've made across my characters so far, and things that I believe should be emphasized to better reflect the mood and the setting.

This is a problem that I've seen on just about every mod I've been to. Modern standards of tolerance are applied to a world that has never had any sort of civil rights movement. I have a couple of suggestions for this. The best idea may be to make a post about this in the announcement section stating rather frankly that most people who lived on the surface are quite intolerant of orcs, kobolds, and goblins and probably wouldn't be too buddy buddy with them. People who have grew up in Sanctuary might be a bit more tolerant, simply because they've lived with them for years. Other than that, we can all play our characters with the prejudice they'd likely have and, without imposing on other players, hope that other players may play their characters as realistically as possible.

Considering the setting, racism should be MORE prevalent!

By that same token, sexism should be less prevalent in "mainstream" D&D human cultures.

While I largely agree that the survival feel could do with a major boost, having the canal ward taken over by drow isn't the right idea.

The drow, even in this non-canon setting are extremly (extremely) extremely powerful. The last time they were put to use in a way that would cause fear in PCs, complaints were raised on all sides that they were entirely too difficult and were practically griefing PCs because there was no way to stop them.

So Drow taking over the canal ward isn't ideal.

What I'd rather see is the difficulty of the Underdark going up accordingly.

In the early days of the server the Underdark -was- feared. Umberhulk behemoths and Deep Lizards and such regularly attacked the gates, causing great chaos and damage and the fear was there.

But now we know what's out there. Going to Fort Mur is like dropping by the Supermarket.

I think the wilderness areas could use an adjustment. A large earthquake the changes the formations of the land and makes passage a little different from "go west" and instead a bit more of an adventure. That's just to start with though.

Next, start making more powerful enemies, and bringing them closer to the gates. Stone Lizards aren't remotely scary to anyone now, so make a couple new ones of different levels and powers and strengths drifting around. Move the spawn points around some. After a few times through particular areas, I've got a good idea of where most of the spawns are and how to avoid them, so now spotting three gnolls right in that spawn is old news. It actually -bores- me to see them there. I feel a little less interested when I see it happen, honestly.

As far as disregard for the gulf between Upper and Lower, I don't think this is actually an issue. It's almost all I think about when I log in a lot of the time. It's basically the theme of the server now!

I think a good idea would be for the DMs to bring back a few of the original preludes they did to introduce some new characters into the setting - that is, characters who have been on preludes in which they actually witness the enslavement, torture, trials, and tribulations which their characters suffered through, prior to their final release from slavery, and their entrance into Sanctuary.

Slaves are rarely only slaves for a few hours or days. Often they'll have been slaves for years, and I feel like that isn't really reflecting on the mass of goody two shoes characters barking for equal rights to drow and the slaver races.

A healthy hatred for at least one of the races and a moderate disdain for all the others is called for, I think, in any character's background.

As a sidenote, Goblins keep slaves too; they should definitely be greatly disliked, no matter how adorable they are.

Yip!

And I know, I'm being moderately hypocritical with some of my points, alot of these things I point out as wrong, I'm guilty of myself. But I don't think that really makes my statements invalid. Like all things, this stuff should be taken with a grain of salt; it's (kinda) my right to talk and suggest things to you guys, but it's up to you if you want to listen to them.

Seeing a couple of gnolls out in the wilderness still terrifies me after playing a wizard for so long. :P

I do agree that the difficulty outside of the city could stand to be jacked up a bit. One of my first (and best) memories of EfU was my first trip down to Lower. My pale master had attached himself to a group of other higher level characters and was doing his best not to draw too much attention to the group. Without warning, an umber hulk charged the group and rendered half of us useless with a glance. My pulse shot up as my wizard ran up an incline and shot an occasional bolt in its direction from behind a large rock as it proceeded to eat a few of his comrades. Coming from a non-perma death world, that experience was one of the selling points for the mod.

That feeling doesn't really seem to be around as much anymore, though. Beefing up spawns would be a decent start. I like the idea of needing to move around the Underdark in groups if you want to survive, but this could be boosted a little bit. I think that a group of displaced umber hulks or a force of orogs moving into the area for an eventual invasion would help. Dealing with occasional patrols to get from place to place would certainly help. More attacks throughout Sanctuary, as well as more plots for internal threats would do more to create a greater feeling of fear and instability. More attacks would help, though. Chosen from the sewers, orogs at the gate, a handful of umberhulks who had managed to burrow their way into one of the city's districts, a drow necromancer and a wave of undead, etc. Many of these could form the basis of plots that would involve PCs of all sorts in execution.

I must say I fullheartedly support the idea of moving around spawn points and beefing up the spawns. EfU used to give me an adrenaline rush as soon as I left through the gates, it's not like that anymore.

Either way the invasion idea is good too, but perhaps only made like an event. Sidhe attacking the Canal, Umber Hulks burrowing themselves into Lower or something similar. I'm not saying it needs to be persistant, though.

The problem with making everything more lethal is of course how newcomers would respond to it. Making sure there are NPCs out there to warn you, and making the sure one could actually see that the area is dangerous. If the warnings and signs are ignored, it's pretty much your own fault, right?

The Underdark was never meant to be a walk in the park.

Just some quote taken from the source section on races:

Most half-orcs are surly individuals who endured horrible childhoods.

Without a place to call a home, and often without a family or close friends to count on for companionship, half-orcs learn from an early age to look out for themselves

too many half-orcs have learned the hard way that they are not welcome in any land, and must provide for themselves

and the most important part:

Half-orcs have uphill battles to fight when interacting with most other races, since many are quick to assume that their orcish blood carries with it an inherent savagery and cruelty. Most half-orcs return this suspicion and trepidation when interacting with others. They make friends only with difficulty. Once turst is estabilished, it is often a fleeting thing that can be fractured with one misinterpreted comment. Often, a half-orc joins an adventuring company and never feels fully at ease with her traveling companions no matter how many times they have proven their loyalty.

Now, unto Tieflings,

Carrying the taint of evil in their very souls, tieflings are persecuted and feared in most parts of Faerun.

Tieflings live as outcasts. Feared for their evil heritage and often acting appropriately to their ancestry, they learn to keep people at a distance and hide that which makes them different.

Less people accepting them, more people treating them like garbage!

These invasions can be worked by a PC faction as well; I mean half-orcs could pactise with Orogs, to get orogs into the city;

the lift would come back up, and that would stop newbies from taking it and dieing. they would have to go to lower the hard way (jumping) or the long way.

Meldread, it's something that's almost long been accepted that people will respond one way to PCs and a complete opposite way to NPCs/DMs if XP/Loot is involved, I think it's lame, which is why I don't do it! It makes me feel more elitist thus cooler.

But yeah, I agree with you on everything, but the DMs can't do a whole lot to help it all the time, a lot of it depends on the player base.

I'd agree with much that is said here. I'd agree that the Underdark does loose it's mystique the more you discover it, which is while i've left it largely undiscovered by my characters. Personally, i'd like there to be more 'Wilderness' Areas that one can explore, more deserted caves that you can take shelter and rest in. I'd like to see Drow Slavers patrolling, attempting to catch wayward sanctuarians offguard.

And aye, I believe the lift kinda made the Upper-Lower Divide have less meaning. Perhaps having a picket line of watchmen who have to check people coming from Lower upwards. Just an idea.

More thoughts later.

-DD

I think the issue with the Upper/Lower divide is that few characters seem to care. Most are just content to treat it like one city, with two independent parts, there is little concern to reclaim Lower, and no concern in Lower of what's going on outside a few characters. NPCs don't really seem to have opinions. Its as if there is a great deal of apathy, which likely is the actual case.

I also think the other factions in the underdark (i.e. Mindflayers/Beholders/Drow) are too busy to care about Sanctuary. Otherwise, I don't think the Grundstubles are stupid enough to show slaves to a predominately ex-slave community and except to not have them invade the mines. Just my thoughts.

OO! OO! How about adding a 5% chance to certain area transitions out in the wilderness that they'll lead somewhere random and get you lost? That would be awesome for difficulty level! Also, I'd like to see monsters attacking the gate more often, even if they're not real threats. Deep lizards, stone lizards, trying to sneak in and snack on the Privates. Deep Hound packs and maybe Draghazar flocks...little stuff that will make people think twice about chatting outside the gates in the UNDERDARK! Oooogaboogabooga.

only problem is group travel- LTS, you'd have to make party enter/exit transition ALL at the time.

Regarding the first two points (that the drow should invade Sanctuary and that the Grunstubbhle mines should have slaves) there are solid in-game reasons for the way things are, and this is not the place to discuss things that should be discovered in-game.

The third point, about racial tensions, is definitely the best suggestion. It's a bother to implement separate conversations for each race for every NPC, but I'll look into it. Goblins and kobolds are evil, rapidly reproducing creatures and the fact that they've taken over nearly a third of the city and turned out in the hundreds to vote in the most recent election should shock even the most apathetic PCs and NPCs.

I am all for having a script where, every so often, a Seeker will run back to the gates of Sanctuary yelling "Hey guys, look what I found!", dash down the stairs, and leave the on-duty Watchmen to fend off a horde of monsters they dragged back to the city. >_>

Arkov

I am all for having a script where, every so often, a Seeker will run back to the gates of Sanctuary yelling "Hey guys, look what I found!", dash down the stairs, and leave the on-duty Watchmen to fend off a horde of monsters they dragged back to the city. >_>

On that note, one thing I'd love to see is a diagram of sentiments. If you're familiar with White Wolf books, they way they have a write up on each faction with a brief stereotype that that faction has about every other faction and group. I think that'd be enourmously helpful in directing players to see the setting in a more organic manner.

People know the Spellguard doesn't get along with the Seekers, but do they know Sewertown considers Lower Sanctuary a group of apathetic cowards who can't accept the truth? Or that there has been a strong anti-goblin sentiment in faction X for decades and its only the lobbying of faction Y that has allowed them a limited freedom as a lower class citizen.

Stuff like the goblins taking over 1/3 of the city and voting en masse is noted on the forums, can be seen in game, but sometimes sadly unless you slap the players in the face with a wet fish they don't "notice" things like that. It'd be helpful if the general regards of the NPCs especially, were easier to find in game sometimes.

Commoners bitching about goblins stealing the election, upper citizens voicing their anger over the rebels in Lower, Lower citizens each voicing dozens of opinions on what's going on with none agreeing.

There is a lot of room for politics and influence and opinion in EfU, but its underdeveloped.

Oroborous Commoners bitching about goblins stealing the election, upper citizens voicing their anger over the rebels in Lower, Lower citizens each voicing dozens of opinions on what's going on with none agreeing.
Funny you should mention that. I'm adding a group of disgruntled commoners in the Town Hall for v820 in response to recent (and not-so-recent) developments.

The Underdark itself is not the actual problem. I've been on this server for two or three months. In all my characters I have rarely left the confines of Sanctuary to venture out into the Underdark. I've had little reason to do it and my characters looked at it as a very dangerous place. I could not take you from the Gates of the city to Fort Mur by walking without getting seriously lost.

The problem is the feeling of security within the city itself. People don't seem to realize just how bad off the city really is - it seems that most people (and yes I am guilty of it as well) act as if they are staying in the Hilton. One of the main sources of meat most citizens eat is from rats and beetles. Rothe is more of a luxury.

People sit behind the walls of Sanctuary and are not actively involved in the city itself. This reflects in all aspects - from Council Elections to Upper/Lower relations.

Most people within the city are Escaped Slaves, yet there does not seem to be a real fear of returning to slavery. The Seekers are supposed to be disliked because of the attention they attract toward the city, yet you really don't see any of that within the role-play.

Here is how I took things with Melrick.

Melrick was born on the surface to a poor farmer who didn't even own the land he lived on. He lived in a small village and was moderately educated by a local Priest of Oghma who taught many of the village children. He worked the fields with his father, and he loved his family - he had a younger brother and sister. His mother died giving birth to his sister. He hated being a farmer, he saw it as a dead end, and he wanted desperately to provide more for his family like any good son. He joined the village Militia where he learned the basics of combat. Two years after this there was a bad year for his Father and the wealthy merchant who owned his farm decided to reclaim it when his Father couldn't afford the payments. Melrick's father committed suicide shortly after that, and Melrick blamed the merchant for his Father's death - he killed the Merchant in a fit of anger and grief.

Fearing what would happen to him he fled the Village trying to make it to the nearest town. He decided that when he found a new place to live he would send for his brother and sister, but on his way he was captured by the Drow and taken into the Underdark.

He was tortured and he was enslaved. He held hope of escaping in the beginning and made several attempts but the Drow's cruelty eventually cut that notion from his mind. There was little he could do, but as is common in Humans in times of crisis he turned to the Gods.

Melrick began to eventually believe that someday he would be free, that his life was meant for more than simply serving the Drow. That he was more important than that. The seeds of evil were being planted then as he watched his Masters and learned from them. He looked for weaknesses, he watched their games with one another, and he always worked under the guise of absolute obedience - on the outside Melrick was the ideal slave. Strong, healthy, obedient, quick to learn and eager to please. On the inside Melrick was resentful, bitter, angry and he drew deeply on those emotions to give him strength to survive the ordeal. He worked hard to prove his worth to his Masters, because he knew that only through doing that could he keep the other Drow at bay. Drow that would want to hunt him for sport. Drow that would want to sacrifice him to Lolth.

He was used as a gladiator and was forced to fight against other slaves. Some he had forged friendships with and he was forced to kill them - or be killed by them. The Drow painstakingly seemed to pick those he was closest with to battle against. Melrick withdrew within himself to avoid making personal relationships with people he knew he would eventually have to kill.

He was used as a breeder for new slaves. Most Female Drow castrate their males to make them more docile and obedient, Melrick escaped this fate by becoming a breeder. This behavior degraded him in such a way that he grew to resent all physical pleasure, he hated what he was forced to do and the Drow took great pleasure in his psychological torture.

Yet, Melrick always had his faith which he drew strength from - a dark deity. He believed that this was a trial - that he was like raw ore being forged into a sword. He was currently within the forge, being shaped to become strong - to be stronger.

He spent his last several months as a slave to a Drow Noble House where he watched their political games with one another. He learned the art of Drow Treachery of subjugation before your betters until you were strong enough to overcome them.

When he escaped from slavery and found himself in Sanctuary he brought this past with him. He threw himself at Dungal Toboerski's feet and took the knowledge he had learned and used it to his advantage.

As I played Melrick in Sanctuary he was often distant from other people, or got falsely close to them through pretending to be something he was not - because he wanted something or needed to use them in a certain way. Though he did eventually get close to Kyle Briar - a Tiefling Priest of Kelemovor and Valarm (who he knew before he became a Spellguard Agent). Valarm and Melrick grew apart as House Toboerski drew more and more of Melrick's time and the Spellguard drew more and more of Valarms, but his relationship with Kyle was always strong and perhaps the only real relationship he had with another individual since the surface. Though Kyle himself struggled with his own inner demons (literally) Melrick also struggled with his and perhaps that is why they grew close on some level - they could relate to each other.

However, the circumstances of their relationship was eventually tested when Melrick had to offer Kyle two options. One of them required his abandonment of Kelemvor and the other called for Kyle's death. Kyle refused to abandon Kelemvor and Melrick was forced to kill him, and it was at that moment when Melrick lost the last bit of his Humanity. It was at that moment when Melrick became -truly- evil.

Killing Kyle effected Melrick in ways that were not readily visible but became gradually obvious. It was as if someone had opened Pandora's box and suddenly everything that seemed to be holding Melrick back was gone. His ambitions ran wild, his emotional connection to others was gone, he felt no remorse for any action he committed.

But always, always ALWAYS from the very beginning Melrick was motivated by one feeling either directly or indirectly and that was fear. He feared his own insecurities which lead to paranoia. He feared the power of others which lead him to murder and betrayal. He feared losing control of a situation so he became a manipulator. He feared being weak so he acted as if he was strong, and his strength came at the price of anyone who he saw stronger than himself. He would lay himself at the feet of those who he believed were stronger, and become useful only until he could betray them and destroy them - becoming stronger than they could have ever hoped to be.

Eventually all of this destroyed House Toboerski. It consumed many people directly or indirectly. His paranoia of betrayal and rivals lead him to lock himself away in the Toboerski Estate and work through surrogates. The more powerful Melrick became, the more his influence grew, the more his inner demons seemed to ripple outward - consuming and destroying all that was in their path.

If Melrick had been successful in his ambitions nothing would have satisfied him. He would have kept going on and on until he was killed. His ambitions knew no limits, but he didn't seek to become powerful for the sake of it. Everything he chased after was an illusion, giving a feeling of false security, and when he realized that he always had to grapple for more.

His evil stemmed directly from his time as a Drow slave. The torments he endured, the hardships he faced, and the fear of once again returning to a time when he was powerless. A time when all hope seemed lost was the driving force behind all that he did - even his most depraved actions.

For example, at one point Melrick had another character trapped within the Toboerski Estate. This character he treated like an animal. He stripped her of her name, he stripped her of dignity and self-worth. She had to walk around on all fours like a dog. She had to speak in third person using the name that he gave her. She had to obey his every word and command. She had to sit at his side like a loyal and faithful pet, so he could stroke her hair.

He used his control over her to intimidate others. To show them that "This is the POWER that I possess. This will be YOUR fate if you go against me." Yet, in reality he was projecting onto her what he feared the most - the way he saw himself deep down. He controlled her in such a way because it gave him the feeling of superiority. It gave him the feeling of being dominate and in control. And through the use of her in that way he liked how it could intimidate and aid him in the controlling of others.

Most people never saw those aspects of Melrick. Melrick was evil for a very good reason, and those reasons came directly from his time spent in slavery. How many other characters on the server have been greatly affected by slavery?

How big of an impact has slavery had on a character? How many people honestly believe that after spending even a single week as a Drow Slave would make you believe that "some Drow can be good"?

There should be a scripted Prelude that allows characters to witness this before arriving within the city. They should be shown the horrible evils that the Drow, Duergar and such commit - it might aid significantly in the atmosphere of the server.

The racisum here is WEAK, in fact, i've only seen it once: a half-orc kept calling my elf a fay, no, not a typo, fay, as in fairy. I would have beaten on him if he said a real one.

All in all, i'd like to see the gruff lower guys react badly to elves. I'd like to see some humans and some elves react badly to half elves. I'd abso-freakin-lotly LOVE to see everyone dissin on the half orcs, because i hate them, and i want to kill them, but thats not very IC. Halflings should be regarded as thieves, goes without saying. Gnomes are a generaly unreconised race, so basicly, if we could have NPCs and PCs mistaking them for halflings that would be great. Also, it's not just general racism, it could be racisum baist of origins. Let's face it, Icewind Dale is barbarian meat, what if a Dalander meets a barbarian of the Elk? HOSTILITY PEOPLE

Red claws are doing just fine with the racial bitchin. they already sacraificed a couple of goblins. another time my half orc was trampled by some velsharoon clerics cause they *told him he was possessed*.

SO yes People are rasist,

REdclaws refuse to travel with elves. ((no idea about dwarves though))

Hurray for the Redclaws on being rasist.

The purple dragons refuse to acknolwledge the half orcs or the redclaws are assests to defence. they believe them vermin which are only able to survive by hiding behind the laws of lower.

I have seen a lot of religious tension also. thanks again to the purple dragons. they preach about helm and have no consideration for other religions.

Paladins as always are rasist against evil.

But then . Tamia Lyonson ((my char which is my longest lasting lvl 6 charctor so far)) is hardly rasist and takes help when she gets it. SHe was not a slave and was simple curiouslity that led her to the underdark then to sanctuary. ((i will not type her life story)). She believes people are to be used and placed where they are best suited. half orcs are excellent shock troops and can break any line of foes. ELves make excellent archers and are to be placed on the city walls for defensive purposes. dwarves are excellent fighters and can be used for bnoth attack and defence. Halfing make excellent scouts and she believes they should be used to tell number of enemies and so on and so forth.and etc....

You get the idea.

BUt again. i have seen a lack of tension betwix upper and lower. Tommy is doing his best to slander uppers by making the truth seem worst than it actually is. and several other charctors are doing there best.

I give an applaud to the redclaws for making racial tensions show in bvlood *bows*

I'm totally with you normally but some of us might have an absolutely lame and sucking FR-faith that actually says

Promote acceptance and tolerance. See all other beings as equals.

so give me a break please if I bitch to you (IC-ly) when you scorn the goblin just on the grounds of her being a goblin..

Just food for your thoughts.

*his thoughts eats the last post as saying*scramble* writing* Actually, if you bitch/not sure how to react/make a face (not matter which) to a goblin/kobold you've done a part. I've already seen goblins/elfs/etc. who doesn't get into quests, just because of race. Should be done more, but, some of the new commers have to join even goblins, to do some task. Sometime you have to.

Also, it might be even wise to cooperate with them, for good relations. Might benefit you to be the good guy/gal in the goblin/kobold eyes, and get his favor.

And then there would be no parties at all, all associations would be transitory at best and your carefully crafted characters would be permadead before you could say "what?"

Bigotry and Rascism is all very well for those lucky enough to live in a time zone that fills the server with enough people to support it.

Otherwise you can wander around alone on a nearly empty server roleplaying with yourself, or scorning the few "characters" that are on the server because it's the thing your character WOULD do.

For those wanting to roleplay their bigotry and rascism, go for it, but expect the full consequences of that behaviour. Sanctuary is an unusual place, and it calls for "some" change in perspective for those that live their if they're going to survive at all, those that dont adjust are doomed, the law certainly wont put up with it.

So next time you complain about the "lack" of stereotyped behaviour you might want to consider that the vast majority of "slaves" were simply that and they have THAT to classify them selves as and not necessarily who their race is. A lot of slaves would have their "rascism" burnt out of them by their masters, those are the ones they'd hate, not that goblin thats mining beside them. A horrific experience like that is more likely to galvanise people against the oppressor and to be at least "neutral" toward those in the same basket as them.

All depends on the character's story though, and how long they've been a slave and what happened to them on the way to here.

So next time you presume to think for another character's behaviour, dont, just do yours and it'll all work out.

Chaosprism wrote:

Otherwise you can wander around alone on a nearly empty server roleplaying with yourself, or scorning the few "characters" that are on the server because it's the thing your character WOULD do.

(not a knock against you Chaosprism, just a general statement)

I would make the point that this is a roleplaying server. If you make a character with certain racial/belief tendencies you should expect to have the consequences, and we expect you the players to rp them out properly. Granted I am not going to police this for everyone, but I will for the half-orc 'priest or follower of Gruumsh' who so easily parties with elves to quest. I wouldn't expect a priest of the Seldarine to quest with half-orcs indescriminantly. I wouldn't expect any good aligned party to even trust a goblin or kobold given the normal racial traits of all those that character has likely already faced.

If you know it will be difficult to play a particular character due to time zone constraints, please take that into consideration when making the character adn perhaps make something that will be able to work and play well with others.

The Beggar

If you know it will be difficult to play a particular character due to time zone constraints, please take that into consideration when making the character adn perhaps make something that will be able to work and play well with others.

Well put. I'm even tempted to say..

I agree actually, I just see people complain about the LACK of racial bigotry in this thread, I dont expect to have fun playing a offensive character on a sparsely populated timezone.

One of the reasons why I have plenty of choice of characters to play ;)

After seeing who's on I often change character for that exact reason, I dont want to be playing the only half-orc on an elf heavy current population. (unless I want the antagonism)

I know certain people may take offence to me changing character so I actually BE in a group validly, I dont... maybe you like standing alone in the city, I dont. I've had my fill of being excluded by paladins or bigots of any kind :) That only works when theres a lot of people around.

No offence to those that play in the populated time zones but you really DONT understand at all, and when you suffer it you will understand. It goes beyond IC discourtesy, into the ooc realm. And is unjustified. Quite a lot of the best fun i've had on here is when a party of mismatched people interacts later on anyway, they close the door on all those possibilities with their "stereotyped" behaviour.

Nice piccy by the way :)

Bigotry is totally justifiable IC and frankly OOC too. Its a roleplaying server, and you're not roleplaying your character very well if he's only bigoted when the server is above 40 players.

However, I don't see anything wrong with looking at the player list seeing 4 players online and saying "I guess I won't play my drow and I'll use my human character instead". That's entirely reasonable.

Don't presume that you have the right to force people to compromise their character and their play style so you can feel included in *their* experience. If you want that, then the onus is on your shoulders and not theirs to adapt to reality.

Exactly which is why I do change to suit, I dont expect them to be a particular way. Nor should they expect me to be a certain way... like for example.. bigoted.

They dont know my character, or it's mind, or it's history or anything. I dont tell them how they should be interacting with my character and they dont tell me how I should be interacting with them.

Linelle I'm totally with you normally but some of us might have an absolutely lame and sucking FR-faith that actually says

Promote acceptance and tolerance. See all other beings as equals.

Or a Code like this...

Spoilers never discriminate on the basis of sex or race—