This is related to Kotenku's post - but it's a suggestion in itself and deserves another thread.

The only problem i see with the bleeding/death system is the following :

On PvM, when you fall to -x hp, but don't fugue, you lose your bag. All your quickslots for healing potions and the such disappear. If ever you do get lucky enough to have a pal next to you use a crystal shard/wand on you and you stand back up, you are almost totally defenceless. Realistically, just falling on the floor then getting back up wouldn't stop your guy using his potions to make a quick get away - but because of game mechanics as they are, you can't just pop the invis and run.

I think the bag should only drop from someone when he actually fugues, at least in PvMonster. Its sad to die simply because the mechanics don't allow to do something which realistically should be possible.

I'm pretty sure this could be applied only to PvM since i believe there are some functions which determine if the killer is a PC or a monster.

Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

Oroborous Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

lovethesuit

Oroborous Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

OMGbearisdriving

lovethesuit

Oroborous Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

Can I be the only one puzzled here?

They're basically saying "I agree" the easy way.

I think it's their way of showing support?

I also like this idea. I've forgotten my bag on a number of occasions, where I hit -1 and someone immediately heals me, so I either follow the retreat or, if the skirmish is over and everyone's moving on, I move on with them and then wonder where my things are when I need them. I barely have a chance to hit the ground, but I have to collect everything that was dropped, and sometimes it doesn't hit me that "oh, I was bleeding to death a moment ago!" or I don't make the connection that negative HP results in item loss.

I actually had this very thing happen to me yesterday. I was doing a hard quest with people who had never done it before, and my character had ICly never done it before, either. We reached a difficult point and everyone but one person and myself died.

The other person managed to escape, but I was hit by a spell which dropped me into the negatives. I was on the ground, surrounded by monsters bleeding to death. Then I stabilized. I began to heal slowly, and recovered - I got to my feet and tried to run.

I was hit by another spell. A negative energy ray. I fell back down again into the negative numbers. I once again stabilized and healed - and tried to run - only to be hit again. I was bleeding to death and at -8 when the other party member managed to run back and use cure serious wounds on me.

I got to my feet and tried to run - but then I was hit by an even more powerful spell which dropped me back down to -8 and I finally died.

Had my potions been hotkeyed I wouldn't have died - I would have made it without a doubt.

Fish XXXX'XX basically saying "I agree" the easy way.

The only reason I could see for the bag dropping at all once hitting the negatives, would be because someone in pvp wants to loot a character without killing them. If thats the case they should be subdueing anyway. So only make the back drop from a knockout situation. It could be that the bag dropping is to force a character to have to resituate themselves after taking a fall. If thats the case then spare us the frustration of 3 minutes worth of rearranging inventory and resetting hotkeys and simply give us a period of dazed status and perhaps a round of confusion.

Screwing with our interface needlessly is mean.

There are actually two types of subdual - there is sparring and then there is normal subdual. When you are in spar mode your opponent will not drop anything they are carrying. When you are in subdual mode (normal) they will drop their pack. If you beat them enough in normal subdual mode they become completely naked, though this takes a considerable effort.

So there is already a script in game that prevents you from dropping things like normal. It's the default mode I am in most of the time. (Typically speaking I switch between Full Damage and Spar.)

I don't see why something similar can't be done with NPC's.

Aekula I'm pretty sure this could be applied only to PvM since i believe there are some functions which determine if the killer is a PC or a monster.

There are unreliable ways, though, and it seems that this suggestion would still work even that function wasn't 100% reliable.

I am for this.

Yeah the only reason somebody might go through somebody elses pack while they're bleeding to death is to search for healing kits or a wand they dont have themselves.

It's possible you could even make just healing kits they're carrying drop (or heal wands) if that's something you want to have happen.

The average adventurer normally does carry the means to assist their fellow party members anyway.

It's possible you could even make just healing kits they're carrying drop (or heal wands) if that's something you want to have happen.

I'd be against that, actually, as it means you can't use the wand to heal yourself - looking at Meldread's post, for example. If you drop your heal kits and wands, particularly if you tend to rely on them more than potions, or have run out, that leaves you in that same boat as before, which is more likely to screw you than the chance none of your party members have heal kits with which to heal you and want to use yours. Especially if they've all run for it and abandoned you, or you got separated somehow.

If it can be done, I wouldn't mind it if hitting -1 left a lootable corpse, but dont take the items from the player inventory until they are removed from the corpse. once they hit -9 then move items from the corpse to the bag and remove all items from the character. This way looting an unconscious person is possible without screwing with hotkeys and what-not. Although I still wouldnt mind at least 1 round of daze after recovering consciousness. Keeps people from bouncing straight to their feet and sucking down potions. Ever passed out before? It's at least 15 seconds before you can think to do anything at all. 3 rounds of daze might be a bit drastic though on mortality rates. 1 round would be believable.

Woah, if something like that was done you might as well just remove the bleeding system all together and just have people die once they reach -1. It would save time, because there would be very little chance of -anyone- surviving after bleeding without someone spamming a healing wand.

It is rare to actually be saved from bleeding to death as it is currently. Becoming dazed so you can't run (you already can't drink potions because they've fallen on the ground in a bag), would just kill you.

In most bleeding situations where you are saved you are surrounded by hostile NPC's who are still -trying- to beat on you. In PvP situations if you happen to be bleeding, you are more or less already dead if someone is trying to kill you in full damage mode.

Normally, the only way you survive those encounters once you've been healed is to get up and RUN AWAY from battle. The NPC's then turn and focus on someone else, allowing someone to heal you. After battle ends you can then go back and get your things. Which is what this thread is about.

Hotkeys are everything in NWN. Without them you're basically screwed. This is even more true on a server like EfU. NWN can't be like PnP where you can kind of mess with things to make them more realistic. People have time to think and react. On NWN everyone is faced with making quick and snap decisions which determine the life and death of their character and others.

There are times when I really wish it was possible to change NWN Combat into a more true turn based system.

I fully support the suggestion made about dropping bags only when fugued. Rearranging hotkeys and inventory is a royal pain in the a**.

Perhaps Meldread, you are thinking of stunned? I was under the impression that you could run while dazed, you just weren't able to attack, cast or use items. If I'm wrong on that one, then whatever status causes an effect similar to what I've just described should be used intstead. 90% of the time people just get up and start looting their corpse before doing anything else anyway.

You can't use a healing potion or rod on yourself even if you're the fastest looter on the server, because you lost your hotkeys, so a daze is definately a far lesser evil if the DMs would wish to keep that effect.

Kotenku

OMGbearisdriving

lovethesuit

Oroborous Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

I am for that- but against removing bleeding.

Often- in Pvp , I left people bleeding for dead to switch target, these persons were often brought back to life by their partners, and join the mettle afterwards.

I think it should stay this way, cuz in a pvp battle, you -cant- check if a char is bleeding or not, you have to waste a valuable round attacking a corpse, while you could switch on a more prime target.

which gives a most needed chance for people to come back through healing.

I'm all for making death -20 with the loss at what it is now because it is so freakin easy to die. You'd still die ultra fast if your getting beaten on but if not your party actualy has a chance to save your ass.

Perhaps Meldread, you are thinking of stunned? I was under the impression that you could run while dazed, you just weren't able to attack, cast or use items. If I'm wrong on that one, then whatever status causes an effect similar to what I've just described should be used intstead. 90% of the time people just get up and start looting their corpse before doing anything else anyway.

Normally speaking, I don't see why most people would loot their things in the middle of a battle surrounded by hostile enemies. Maybe if it is only one or two who are focused on other people and more likely at lower levels than at higher ones. A bunch of rats that can only do one damage per hit isn't that intimidating. However, bleeding near three or four Greater Chosen Arcanists and getting up after being healed only to stand there and start looting your things... you might as well just stab yourself. It would probably be less painful. Then you should appologize to your group member for wasting one or more of the charges on their healing item.

Harlstar I'm all for making death -20 with the loss at what it is now because it is so freakin easy to die.

And don't become important.

I used to quest no end before I became Spellguard, I never died. Ever. You just have to be picky with the people you quest with and not rush off at the first oppertunity to gain xp.

Aaand back to the orignal topic of not dropping stuff. I dropped to negative HP 3 times yesterday (which was my own fault for going on a quest that was too high-level but hey, live and learn). It was all very exciting to get healed at -9 and all, and grabbing my crossbow and running the hell out of the battle etc. But the fact that I had to then go back sit there and redo all my hotkeys before I dared walk into the next room (because going into battle with no healing/ranged weapon quickslotted is suicidal) was an incredible pain. And also it meant I either had to make 7 people wait for me or let them go on ahead and then feel useless for missing half the fight.

Oroborous wrote: Maybe only when he Fugues in PvM or PvP and only when Blacked out in subdual on PvP.

Arkov, is this doable/likely to happen when you have time? Because it's something that affects the whole server and would make things so much smoother...

Meldread

Perhaps Meldread, you are thinking of stunned? I was under the impression that you could run while dazed, you just weren't able to attack, cast or use items. If I'm wrong on that one, then whatever status causes an effect similar to what I've just described should be used intstead. 90% of the time people just get up and start looting their corpse before doing anything else anyway.

You can move while dazed, but you cannot run. You can only walk. If you are surrounded by hostile monsters and you are healed then you are MUCH more likely to die if you cannot run.

Normally speaking, I don't see why most people would loot their things in the middle of a battle surrounded by hostile enemies. Maybe if it is only one or two who are focused on other people and more likely at lower levels than at higher ones. A bunch of rats that can only do one damage per hit isn't that intimidating. However, bleeding near three or four Greater Chosen Arcanists and getting up after being healed only to stand there and start looting your things... you might as well just stab yourself. It would probably be less painful. Then you should appologize to your group member for wasting one or more of the charges on their healing item.

D&D rules say as long as you have at least 1 hit point you're totally conscious and capable. It's one of the abstractions that have to be accepted for all the rules to work together. If you changed that you'd need to start rewriting the whole ruleset.

Can we have an option on bleedout that lets us die as soon as we click it/ type it in?

I hate when i was being an idiot and doing things solo only to get knocked to -1 and have to mob killing me stand there and wait for me to get back up. Loose my health to -8 then get "you stabalize" for 10 rounds, then get +1 hp till im back to 1 and then just get knocked down again. Such things piss me off to the point of "well, he's perma-f***ed anyway" and switching characters.

I think perhaps a better solution would be not to solo things you aren't 100% positive you can walk. I don't find that situation arises nearly often enough to be worth it (once, ever) and I would definitely want it to be something you have to type in rather than click. A missclick in that situation doesn't bear thinking about. But I don't really like the idea anyway. Just wait the extra minute and learn from it not to do it again.

Bump:

Last night I was with a group of players in a DMed adventure. Got knocked to -1. Got up, and found I didn't have any of my stuff, couldn't heal myself the rest of the way, located my pack, tried to pick up just the healing gear, got whacked before I got it, and thus died. There was almost a minute between getting up and dying, ample time to have healed myself up to full HP.

The result was a loss of major XP in a situation where I feel that the death was unfair and basically meta, seeing as the reason I died was because I had lost everything on knockout. Had I not dropped my 'pack', death would not have come.

So... I bump this thread because I wonder if there is a plan to 'fix' this?

You -do- drop your pack when you go down. If you're lucky enough to get up again and the fighting is still going on, run for the hills and return once the smoke lifts.

It wasn't a mistake that you dropped your pack. You're supposed to drop your pack when you go unconscious.

Yes, we know that you drop your pack. Your first paragraph just states the obvious. Your second paragraph I am uncertain to take as simply a fact, or if that is your opinion. As a fact (saying that it wasn't a mistake and that you are supposed to because it's scripted that way) it again merely states the obvious. As an opinion, I am inclined to disagree with you.

The point is that the scripting to 'drop your pack' is annoying, dangerous, and NOT realistic.

I mean, I just got knocked unconscious. When someone wakes me up, how come my pack fell off my back? I mean, isn't a pack strapped on? When I got knocked down, did the enemy take a knife and cut the straps from my arms? Do PCs never have the presence of mind when they got up to grab their stuff and run?

Or when I do get a chance to come to my pack, how come I don't just pick up the WHOLE pack and run, instead I decided to unpack it, item by item into my inventory. What sense does THAT make?

And how about items that might not realistically be in my pack? Bolts or arrows might be in a quivver seperately strapped to my back. Little sacks of medicinal herbs might be looped onto my belt for easy access. I might be wearing my clothes under my armor. Weapons not equipped in my hands might be scabbarded around my waist. A knife might be tucked in my boot.

Realism says if I get knocked unconscious (-1 HP) and a companion runs up to me and heals me to + so that I open my eyes and stand up... I would still have my pack on.

Hate to compare, but ALFA doesn't 'drop' a pack until you actually die, and then it isn't a 'dropped' pack, it's a lootable corpse that you can carry. If the corpse isn't looted, when you rez the individual, they come back with all their gear in their inventory (still gotta redo your quickslots and reorganize your inventory).

Creatures (enemies) will actually run up to your corpse (if there is no other danger) and start looting it one item at a time. If you slay that creature, they will drop those items.

This is more realistic, and that it's been done shows that it is scriptable.

Anyway, this might NEVER be addressed, I suppose. But I did want to point out that I agree with the original poster in this thread and bring this to the forefront again. As many people as have said that they agree, I wonder if it will be addressed.

An alternative would be to be able to 'tag' items somehow - a maximum of so many per player - and these items, like your actual worn stuff, don't drop until you hit -10. Let's you keep healing wands and Invis items close.

It's better than nothing, I suppose, but still doesn't really make that much sense. Also like to point out that

Howland

I am for this.

I think Arkov is just having a bit of trouble figuring out how. But even so. If he can't make the scripting work completely, I'd prefer a 5% chance that on death you will fall, your bag will split and your stuff will spill all over the floor, leaving you scrabbling to find your healing potions or crossbow before the enemy come closer, than a 100% chance of it.

Arkov, if you manage it I suspect the entire server will give you love and cookies, cos let's face it I doubt there's -anyone- here who hasn't almost died a second time due to not having their healing/ranged weapon available after being knocked out, or due to trying to get said items and dying. Or even worse, losing your nightshade so you can't even quietly disappear to the corner to heal magically.

I haven't even gotten a chance to work on this yet. Today was the first day of my winter vacation. Give me some time! :)

Welcome to your holidays arkov, dont work TOO hard on your new job here at "scripting efu" headquarters :D

I have faith in you I know you'll find a way if it's possible